Ask a Prophet

[Prophet]

Let's see how good you are

when's the next mass extinction?
how do we prevent it?
how to become physically immortal, die and come back to life whenever one wishes?

Sorry. I got nothing.

 

[Breathe]

Did you more or less see what you figured you would see here?

Pretty much, yes.

 

[Quagmire]

Okay. You don't know me. Please, do not inform me what I was thinking at some random time in the past as a debating point, when you are actually just speaking from ignorance.

To some extent he's speaking from experience: we get a lot of "ImaProphet"s and "TheVoiceOfGod"s and "HisChosenMessenger"s and "TrulyEnlightened"s in here, and about the same thing happens everytime: they come in here claiming to have a special relationship with God, or special revealed knowledge thereof, or to have been granted the authority to speak on His behalf, and in short order they manage to reveal to everyone who'd paying attention that, not only don't they seem particularly Godly, but they don't even seem to be particularly decent human beings.

Seriously: we've gotten so many people like this in here at one time we were playing with the idea of giving them their own DIR. Wanted to call it "The One True Prophet of Gods" forum.

You're the one making the big deal about my screenname. You tell me that by choosing it I shot myself in the foot by causing people to marginalize me without debate, and then you do exactly what I've caused you to do. If you are a being of clear vision, then why are you, yourself ignoring my arguments in favor of attacking my screenname?

This thread is about asking me questions. You aren't asking questions. You're not trying to understand. You're not even debating me. You are saying that I'm not a prophet merely because prophets don't exist in your book, but it seems, if they do exist, you have them as future tellers who write books.

Personally, I realize that a "Prophet" was never meant to designate a future-teller (in fact to some extent I think that the habit of reading the prophetic writings as if they were supposed to be premonitions demeans their worth), but I also realize that the Prophets never granted the title to themselves---Isaiah just called himself Isaiah, Jeremiah actually seemed to go way out of his way not to be identified with the prophets:

1. Jeremiah 5:13
   The prophets are but wind and the word is not in them; so let what they say be done to them.”
   Jeremiah 5:12-14 (in Context) Jeremiah 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. Jeremiah 5:31
   The prophets prophesy lies,

My personal philosophy about all this is: if you were a prophet you wouldn't need to to tell anyone that you were. Whatever message God might hand down to special individuals for the benefit of mankind, "I'm a Prophet" seems like a pretty impotent and unnecessary one.

You won't even let me define my own terms. And then you say I have to prove the existence of the term that you demand control over. This is an intellectually dishonest debate tactic. I'm fairly wowed.

You've fallen a long ways from where I first met you, sir.

You sound a lot more like a judge to me.

 

[Prophet]

To some extent he's speaking from experience: we get a lot of "ImaProphet"s and "TheVoiceOfGod"s and "HisChosenMessenger"s and "TrulyEnlightened"s in here, and about the same thing happens everytime: they come in here claiming to have a special relationship with God, or special revealed knowledge thereof, or to have been granted the authority to speak on His behalf, and in short order they manage to reveal to everyone who'd paying attention that, not only don't they seem particularly Godly, but they don't even seem to be particularly decent human beings.

Seriously: we've gotten so many people like this in here at one time we were playing with the idea of giving them their own DIR. Wanted to call it "The One True Prophet of Gods" forum.

Others have come before me, also claiming to have answers. You call the idea of lumping me in with them "speaking from experience". This is certainly a very interesting way to see things.

Let us test your concept of "speaking from experience" with a practical example, shall we? Let's say you are working security at a store, and noticed that it was always a certain minority group who say just loitered and never profited the store. When you see a member of this minority group, you immediately assume he's not going to be a paying customer. Would you call this assumption A) experience or B) prejudice?

From my perspective, your "speaking from experience" means "speaking from prejudice".

Personally, I realize that a "Prophet" was never meant to designate a future-teller (in fact to some extent I think that the habit of reading the prophetic writings as if they were supposed to be premonitions demeans their worth), but I also realize that the Prophets never granted the title to themselves---Isaiah just called himself Isaiah, Jeremiah actually seemed to go way out of his way not to be identified with the prophets:

1. Jeremiah 5:13
   The prophets are but wind and the word is not in them; so let what they say be done to them.”
   Jeremiah 5:12-14 (in Context) Jeremiah 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. Jeremiah 5:31
   The prophets prophesy lies,

Well, agreed, but if they resisted the title prophet, the only real reason they did it was the common connotations the term carried in that day, such as future telling. For the same reasons, I wouldn't talk about God if I were teaching a Buddhist because the term "God" carries too much baggage.

Maybe prophet still carries too much baggage, but I honestly feel it is high time that we stop hiding from the word and embrace a much more rational concept.

My personal philosophy about all this is: if you were a prophet you wouldn't need to to tell anyone that you were. Whatever message God might hand down to special individuals for the benefit of mankind, "I'm a Prophet" seems like a pretty impotent and unnecessary one.

I don't need to tell anyone that I am a prophet. The need I feel pertains to telling everyone that they can be a prophet, too, and this is because everyone is a part of me. Until all beings are enlightened, a part of me will be broken. Because of this, I can never stop teaching. With each being redeemed a precious part of myself is redeemed as well. I know the day will come when heaven is realized on our planet as God is allowed to come alive in every living being. The purpose of the illumined being is to speed this light.

Believe me, I'd love to debate something other than whether I'm a prophet or not. Personally, I think it'd be a worlds better approach to ask me questions about more interesting topics in hopes of catching me on an error.

I will add that I'm not out of the closet as enlightened in real life to anybody but my closest friends. I had a few awful missteps very early in my enlightenment, and I'm aiming to avoid more by making my mistakes online. When I am ready, I will come out.

You sound a lot more like a judge to me.

At very least, I will hear a person out before I judge if at all. You, yourself opened with prejudice, causing this closing to reek of hypocrisy.

 

[Shermana]

Funny, Jeremiah is much about future telling. When they refer to "prophets" the connotation is that they are false.

 

[apophenia]

Maybe prophet still carries too much baggage, but I honestly feel it is high time that we stop hiding from the word and embrace a much more rational concept.
...
I don't need to tell anyone that I am a prophet. The need I feel pertains to telling everyone that they can be a prophet, too, and this is because everyone is a part of me. Until all beings are enlightened, a part of me will be broken. Because of this, I can never stop teaching. With each being redeemed a precious part of myself is redeemed as well. I know the day will come when heaven is realized on our planet as God is allowed to come alive in every living being. The purpose of the illumined being is to speed this light.

But you're not about telling the future. And you're not 'super special'. Right. Just an ordinary 'prophet next door' kinda guy.

Exactly what do you mean when you say " I know the day will come " ? This is 'a much more rational concept' in your view ? Really ?

How do you know ? I could find some of your earlier posts where you reject the idea of being able to precisely predict the future. And that is a very grandiose prediction. So my question is simple - how do you know such a thing ?

BTW ... it's the part highlighted in red that is the real worry. You think I have 'fallen' lately because I challenge your self-intoxication... but your words are classic delusions of grandeur.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

BTW ... it's the part highlighted in red that is the real worry. You think I have 'fallen' lately because I challenge your self-intoxication... but your words are classic delusions of grandeur.

This does seem as a case of mystical experience mixed with delusions of grandeur - a not uncommon thing, however beyond the face-value of those words, they tie into esoteric cosmologies.

The subtle body of the individual is said to be composed of arrays, assemblies of other conscious beings, ultimately including the infinite of all beings. Thus the individual is a microcosm of the macrocosmic body, the transcendental form of God openly manifest in material reality, yet far beyond the scope of material, 3(4) dimensional subject/object based modes of sensory perception and cognition.

Put another way, you're a god within me, and I'm a god within you. We're all gods within eachother, upholding eachother's presence by our own. The Self is composed of the Self of all others. Universal service is the cloth that shines the mirror bright, free of dust and grime, and wisdom is the mother of the realization that there was no mirror to be dirtied or shined in the first place. The original face cannot look upon itself save by its own eyes.

In Buddhism, it is said that when one being attains enlightenment, all beings attain enlightenment; the time delay is only experienced by those who have not yet realized this.

 

[Prophet]

But you're not about telling the future. And you're not 'super special'. Right. Just an ordinary 'prophet next door' kinda guy.

Exactly what do you mean when you say " I know the day will come " ? This is 'a much more rational concept' in your view ? Really ?

How do you know ? I could find some of your earlier posts where you reject the idea of being able to precisely predict the future. And that is a very grandiose prediction. So my question is simple - how do you know such a thing ?

BTW ... it's the part highlighted in red that is the real worry. You think I have 'fallen' lately because I challenge your self-intoxication... but your words are classic delusions of grandeur.

Yes, I have one prophecy and it is not reliant upon my existence nor the existence of the prophets before me nor the prophets who follow me. Nor is it dependent upon the wills of individual beings. You ask me how I know. I know because it is apparent in the design of the mind, which was revealed to me by seeing myself as I was truly.

After I had my moment of epiphany I described it like this: All my life as long as I remember, I had been thinking on this set of guide rails made which decided for me which thought paths were safe to follow. As long as I never thought outside these guide rails, I would never create lasting meaningful change in my life, because these rails cause me to continue thinking in the safe, familiar patterns I had built as a false self alienating the God-like part of my being. This is what we all do to not face our own evil. We see our selfish thoughts and actions, and think we have faced our evil, but evil is not a material thing. We hide our selfish motives from ourselves, marooning them in our subconscious with fear. This is the cause of irrational thought and insanity on its most basic level. The birth of false self and ego happens when we choose to be our thoughts rather than the awareness of our thoughts thus forming the basis for all irrational thought and insanity.

In the non-enlightened being, the design of the mind consists of the false self (ego), the conscious mind, and the subconscious mind. In one who has been enlightened, there is only Consciousness.

The subconscious is the part of our minds which we force into slumber. Herein lies the ignorance which Socrates identified the root of all wrongdoing. Remove yourself from this ignorance, and you will see that the only true good or true love is one you remain unattached to. You will do good only for the good of all, not to be seen by others, and you will find Truth, sanity, Consciousness, Oneness, Knowledge of Good and Evil, Gnosis, Nirvana, the Tao, the Kingdom of God or whatever a great many other enlightened teachers have called it, and you will know the burden all prophets bear to teach all that they know to others.

God created life with a destiny eons ago that someday life would create God here, an age where we all freely embrace the divine knowledge that frees us from the prison of thought we wall up for ourselves with selfishness. God's plan can be known completely by knowing yourself, and knowing all others in the process, no future-telling involved.

 

[Straw Dog]

Since I already shared my concerns and reservations here, I'll continue with the original intention of the thread: getting to know Prophet better.

I'll suspend my disbelief and just accept your self image as reality. My first question would be, "How can you tell when someone is enlightened? What is the determining criterion? Can an enlightened person be separated from an unenlightened person?"

 

[Prophet]

Since I already shared my concerns and reservations here, I'll continue with the original intention of the thread: getting to know Prophet better.

I'll suspend my disbelief and just accept your self image as reality. My first question would be, "How can you tell when someone is enlightened? What is the determining criterion? Can an enlightened person be separated from an unenlightened person?"

I won't bother telling anyone here how I differentiate between the egoic and enlightened mind in favor of providing information of practical use to the average person on the tells of a false prophet.

False prophets have an incomplete knowledge of the truth. Because of this, their patience for your questions about their worldview will often have a boundary as limited as their understanding. Because these prophets lack understanding themselves, they cannot help their followers seek understanding effectively. When confronted in debate, they offer unfalsifiable claims and word salad instead of making real points, as the false prophet has no grounds of understanding to make true points on.

It is worth noting that often this kind of false prophet will demand a pledge of allegiance to the false prophet's teachings and/or the false prophet, himself. Pledges of these kinds are most common in fundamentalist religions.

 

[Quagmire]

Others have come before me, also claiming to have answers. You call the idea of lumping me in with them "speaking from experience". This is certainly a very interesting way to see things.

You seem to be going out of your way not to understand where other people are coming from.

Let us test your concept of "speaking from experience" with a practical example, shall we? Let's say you are working security at a store, and noticed that it was always a certain minority group who say just loitered and never profited the store. When you see a member of this minority group, you immediately assume he's not going to be a paying customer. Would you call this assumption A) experience or B) prejudice?

I don't think that's a very accurate analogy.

Lets try another one: Let's say you are working at a mini-mart, and notice that every now and then someone comes in claiming to be from Mars. Now, in each and every case this self-proclaimed Martian immediately starts doing a lot of strange and distressing things: accosting the other customers, jumping up on the Slurpee machine and making loud animal noises, taking off al of his clothes and standing on his head in the cooler,. . .

Wouldn't you say that, after someone (say the cashier) has witnessed this same routine over and over again, that the next time someone walks in and walks up to the counter and says "Hi, I'm a Martian" that "Oh no, here we go again " would be a perfectly understandable reaction on the part of the cashier?

When you see a member of this minority group, you immediately assume he's not going to be a paying customer.

Thing is, like I said earlier, you're really not a minority. We get lots and lots and lots of self-proclaimed prophets in here.

From my perspective, your "speaking from experience" means "speaking from prejudice".

Your perspective seems to be the only one you're interested in.

Well, agreed, but if they resisted the title prophet, the only real reason they did it was the common connotations the term carried in that day,

And you've just been told what the common connotations the self-applied label of "prophet" carries in here, these day.

such as future telling. For the same reasons, I wouldn't talk about God if I were teaching a Buddhist because the term "God" carries too much baggage.

Maybe prophet still carries too much baggage, but I honestly feel it is high time that we stop hiding from the word and embrace a much more rational concept.

And why is that exactly? A dandelion posing as a rose would come across as just as pretentious under any other name.

I don't need to tell anyone that I am a prophet.

If you actually are one, then no: you wouldn't need to tell anyone. Which is exactly why actually choosing it as your username makes you suspect from the get-go.

The need I feel pertains to telling everyone that they can be a prophet, too, and this is because everyone is a part of me. Until all beings are enlightened, a part of me will be broken. Because of this, I can never stop teaching. With each being redeemed a precious part of myself is redeemed as well. I know the day will come when heaven is realized on our planet as God is allowed to come alive in every living being. The purpose of the illumined being is to speed this light.

Well, if that's the case, no offense but it seems to me that you're going about it all wrong.

Believe me, I'd love to debate something other than whether I'm a prophet or not.

Then you should probably change your username. Face it: when someone's name is actually a claim people are going to ask to see your credentials.

Personally, I think it'd be a worlds better approach to ask me questions about more interesting topics in hopes of catching me on an error.

Again no offense, but you don't seem to understand people very well, and you don't seem particularly interested in trying to learn.

I will add that I'm not out of the closet as enlightened in real life to anybody but my closest friends. I had a few awful missteps very early in my enlightenment, and I'm aiming to avoid more by making my mistakes online. When I am ready, I will come out.

I would suspect that being an efficient prophet would require the same strategy that it takes to be an effective writer: Show, dont Tell.

At very least, I will hear a person out before I judge if at all. You, yourself opened with prejudice, causing this closing to reek of hypocrisy.

Nope, I was just trying to explain why you're being received the way you are.

At very least, I will hear a person out before I judge if at all.

That doesn't seem to be true at all.

You've shown yourself to be an extremely judgmental person, and the kind of person who tends to judge things and people without taking the time to try and understand them or what they're saying.

 

[Straw Dog]

I won't bother telling anyone here how I differentiate between the egoic and enlightened mind in favor of providing information of practical use to the average person on the tells of a false prophet.

Fair enough.

False prophets have an incomplete knowledge of the truth. Because of this, their patience for your questions about their worldview will often have a boundary as limited as their understanding. Because these prophets lack understanding themselves, they cannot help their followers seek understanding effectively. When confronted in debate, they offer unfalsifiable claims and word salad instead of making real points, as the false prophet has no grounds of understanding to make true points on.

It is worth noting that often this kind of false prophet will demand a pledge of allegiance to the false prophet's teachings and/or the false prophet, himself. Pledges of these kinds are most common in fundamentalist religions.

I suppose the next rational step then would be to inquire based on the criterion presented here.

How can you determine whether or not your knowledge is complete? How do you know that there isn't anything more for you to know before becoming a true prophet? Are your claims falsifiable? Can they be tested somehow?

 

[apophenia]

[FONT=&quot]When I was a psyche nurse I was introduced to a ward which I think of as the X-Files ward. It was a ward which housed the worst cases of misshapen humanity. There were people with bodies knotted like pretzels with no sign of intelligence, one was 16 years old (they usually died much younger) and had been lying in an impossible knot on that floor his entire life. One had no skull. There was a little girl with massive brain damage who clinically died during grandmal siezures a few times a week (she had 3 or 4 siezures every day), yet teams would rush to revive her, and each time they did her brain damage was worse. The psycho-geriatric ward also accomodated a girl of about 11 who was there because there was nowhere else to place her.She had been in a horrific car accident, and the terrible condition she was in was never going to improve. She was fully conscious and mentally functioning, but tied to the bed to prevent her attempts at self harm. She could not speak, but engaged me with her eyes, and was clearly in hell and wishing to die. Apart from enduring her physical damage which would never improve, she was surrounded by 80 insane geriatrics writing their names in excrement on the walls etc. My days generally began with someone begging for euthanasia, or doing something extreme like disembowelling themself in bed. I could tell you lots more, but I assure you, you wouldn't want to hear it.

Now tell me , what is God's plan for these people ?

Maybe they are those 'cosmic jokes' Alan Watts like to giggle about, and these people will die and wake up in heaven and God will slap them on the back and say "Just kidding ! Ha Ha ! ". Somehow I don't think so.

So tell us, what is the divine purpose here ? Let me guess ... they are advanced souls who are being given an opportunity to develop detachment ? Or maybe they are evidence that hell is right here with us, and they were nazi war criminals in their previous life ?

What do you think Prophet ?

[/FONT]

 

[Prophet]

You seem to be going out of your way not to understand where other people are coming from.

Can you demonstrate a single example of me being purposefully dense as you seem to insinuate?

I don't think that's a very accurate analogy.

Lets try another one: Let's say you are working at a mini-mart, and notice that every now and then someone comes in claiming to be from Mars. Now, in each and every case this self-proclaimed Martian immediately starts doing a lot of strange and distressing things: accosting the other customers, jumping up on the Slurpee machine and making loud animal noises, taking off al of his clothes and standing on his head in the cooler,. . .

Haven't you already let the cat out of the bag that you believe prophets have existed when you indicated earlier that you agreed with me that characterizing prophets as future-tellers is not a intelligent way to see them?

Your Martian defense is a transparent attempt to have it both ways. You use Martians now because it is reasonable to assume they do not exist, lending the appearance of weight to your argument. Your case only holds if you are trying to demonstrate that I cannot be a prophet because prophets do not exist, which is not only contradictory with a view you claimed earlier but conveniently circular as well. Your insinuation that my defense of my viewpoints has been wild and irrational in your analogy is not supported either.

Wouldn't you say that, after someone (say the cashier) has witnessed this same routine over and over again, that the next time someone walks in and walks up to the counter and says "Hi, I'm a Martian" that "Oh no, here we go again " would be a perfectly understandable reaction on the part of the cashier?

If the minority group from my earlier example went beyond being a nuisance into a full blown epidemic of insane and violent behavior, a similar store worker reaction to seeing another of this group show up at the door would also be perfectly understandable and prejudiced at the same time.

Understandable behavior and prejudiced behavior are not mutually exclusive. Your defense has been proven irrelevant.

Thing is, like I said earlier, you're really not a minority. We get lots and lots and lots of self-proclaimed prophets in here.

I wasn't trying to demonstrate that I was a minority. I was only demonstrating that you are prejudiced against those who claim to be a prophet. That you base this emnity on previous examples of self-proclaimed prophets is completely within the parameters of prejudice.

Your perspective seems to be the only one you're interested in.

Yet, despite my commitment to what I believe in, I understand enough of your perspective to point out your contradictions. Have you been interested in understanding my clearly deluded perspective enough to point out any of my own contradictions? No, you've stayed on the level of guesses, prejudice, and ad hominem to make your strongest points in this debate.

I've pointed out your own contradictions to you. I've pointed out others contradictions here as well. I believe I understand what you are saying demonstrably more clearly than you understand what I am saying.

And you've just been told what the common connotations the self-applied label of "prophet" carries in here, these day.

And why is that exactly? A dandelion posing as a rose would come across as just as pretentious under any other name.

You, yourself, say that thinking of a prophet as a future-teller detracts from understanding of the reading, did you not? I agree.

Wouldn't reclaiming the word "prophet" in a rational manner then be good for increasing general religious understanding? I should add the same can be said for God, but no one is debating me on God, at the moment.

If you actually are one, then no: you wouldn't need to tell anyone. Which is exactly why actually choosing it as your username makes you suspect from the get-go.

Bold claim. And, how, exactly, do you know? You are fully speaking from ignorance unless you're a prophet yourself. What is it that you believe prophets do once they become such? Hide in a hole? Meditate and shut up? Be really nice to everyone?

Is that what past examples of prophets have done in your knowledge? Was Jesus Christ only acknowledged as a prophet by others, never once making any sort of special claim for himself? Did Siddhartha Gautama never claim to be awakened?

Well, if that's the case, no offense but it seems to me that you're going about it all wrong.

That's another very interesting but unsupported opinion based upon you speaking from ignorance.

Then you should probably change your username. Face it: when someone's name is actually a claim people are going to ask to see your credentials.

When I do come out of the closet in real life as enlightened, I am likely going to be in some situations where I have to debate this same topic live. This is why I picked this name. I wanted to be challenged here.

Again no offense, but you don't seem to understand people very well, and you don't seem particularly interested in trying to learn.

I've already said my piece on this same point when you stated that my perspective is the only one I'm interested in. Please educate me if it means something different.

I would suspect that being an efficient prophet would require the same strategy that it takes to be an effective writer: Show, dont Tell.

Show don't tell? Is that what Jesus did? Is that what Buddha did? Is that what Socrates did? Are your suspicions anything more than just a guess?

Nope, I was just trying to explain why you're being received the way you are.

Have I expressed bewilderment? I am well aware that prophets are seldom received in their own time. Jesus himself said:

"Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town."

Since this is only the internet, I guess the only persecution I have coming will be in the form of ad hominem. You haven't disappointed.

 

[Alceste]

I have a question for you: Wouldn't an enlightened being understand that claiming to be closer to perfection than the majority of humanity will create hostility, making his target audience less receptive to his words of wisdom?

This is the metric by which I assess whether someone is "enlightened" or "mentally ill" (both rather dubious classifications, I'm sure you'll agree, but useful metaphors in certain cases).

Or, to put it another way, when we are unsure whether we should be seeking disciples or psychiatric counselling, we are in need of neither. When we are certain, one way or the other, we've usually got it the wrong way around.

 

[Prophet]

Fair enough.

I suppose the next rational step then would be to inquire based on the criterion presented here.

How can you determine whether or not your knowledge is complete? How do you know that there isn't anything more for you to know before becoming a true prophet? Are your claims falsifiable? Can they be tested somehow?

There is no prerequisite amount of knowledge needed to become a prophet. The prophets at their basic level need only experientially understand what good and evil are. This understanding is available to beings of comparatively diminutive intelligence and capacity for knowledge to human beings.

Understanding what good and evil are on an experiential level causes the subconscious pocket to illuminate, allowing old recycled and new incoming knowledge to become perfectly organized in a mind that is fully open, unattached to any worldview and ready to understand anything. This is how all everything I've ever remembered, known, reasoned, and experienced all points to a single Truth that set me free and has the power to set many others free as well from the prisons they make for themselves by hiding their selfish motives from themselves.

I'm pretty sure every claim I've made is falsifiable, meaning that if my claim were wrong, there would be paths to demonstrate this.

 

[Prophet]

double post

 

[apophenia]

Well, there you go. You complain that the thread is dominated by criticism of your self-declaration of enlightenment and prophet-hood, and when I post a serious question for you to answer you ignore it, and continue to use the thread to advertise your virtue.

Am I surprised ? No. The fact is that there is nothing you or any other 'spiritual expert' could ever say or do which could make the horrors of this world understandable or acceptable. And nothing which you could do or say which could help the people I am thinking about. Except to wash their backsides as kindly as you are able. This is what I have learned.

I have the same criticism of the buddhists. The notion of rebirth determined by karma is a lame attempt at rationalising the kind of suffering to which I referred. Get over your god complex and find a way to give real help to people. We don't need prophets and sages, they turn out to be useless except in the realm of self-congratulation.

 

[Prophet]

[FONT=&quot]When I was a psyche nurse I was introduced to a ward which I think of as the X-Files ward. It was a ward which housed the worst cases of misshapen humanity. There were people with bodies knotted like pretzels with no sign of intelligence, one was 16 years old (they usually died much younger) and had been lying in an impossible knot on that floor his entire life. One had no skull. There was a little girl with massive brain damage who clinically died during grandmal siezures a few times a week (she had 3 or 4 siezures every day), yet teams would rush to revive her, and each time they did her brain damage was worse. The psycho-geriatric ward also accomodated a girl of about 11 who was there because there was nowhere else to place her.She had been in a horrific car accident, and the terrible condition she was in was never going to improve. She was fully conscious and mentally functioning, but tied to the bed to prevent her attempts at self harm. She could not speak, but engaged me with her eyes, and was clearly in hell and wishing to die. Apart from enduring her physical damage which would never improve, she was surrounded by 80 insane geriatrics writing their names in excrement on the walls etc. My days generally began with someone begging for euthanasia, or doing something extreme like disembowelling themself in bed. I could tell you lots more, but I assure you, you wouldn't want to hear it.

Now tell me , what is God's plan for these people ?

Maybe they are those 'cosmic jokes' Alan Watts like to giggle about, and these people will die and wake up in heaven and God will slap them on the back and say "Just kidding ! Ha Ha ! ". Somehow I don't think so.

So tell us, what is the divine purpose here ? Let me guess ... they are advanced souls who are being given an opportunity to develop detachment ? Or maybe they are evidence that hell is right here with us, and they were nazi war criminals in their previous life ?

What do you think Prophet ?

[/FONT]

Often I hear questions like this posed, implying that if God intervened when unfair things happened, that He'd be more loving. I would posit exactly the opposite. I say that God is our example of perfect love, and He demonstrates this by allowing us all to go our own way through eons and many lifetimes and lovers as it takes for us to find our way back to the One who loved us first. This example set by God is the basis for all love and good.

All life is immortal. Much clear thought follows from understanding of this truth. I am truly sorry that non-understanding of this truth caused caretakers to keep these beings trapped in tortured bodies against their wills. They thought destroying the body destroyed the being. It is not true.

I disagree with the notion that God was punishing anyone. I don't know where these poor souls have gone for now, but I do know they will be with God, someday.

 

[apophenia]

I don't know where these poor souls have gone for now, but I do know they will be with God, someday.

That's your best answer ?

blah blah blah
maha blah
para maha blah
svaha