Ascension of Baha'u'llah

[TransmutingSoul]

So I mean, upon reflection, to where did Bahullah ascend? I'm not sure if anyone answered if anyone saw him ascend (or to where), but that is an interesting question, since Jesus must have been different in his ascension. In actuality, how and where did he die? Very interesting...

Again, thank you for the questions, I appreciate you took the time.

I see that over time many people have come to their own conclusions as to where Jesus Christ went. I see it was nowhere but all around us. I see all the Messengers from God are the Spirit that is behind all creation. Faith in them allows us to be born again and thus become spiritual creatures, even still while living this life.

The more we connect with faith, to the spirit of the Messengers that surrounds us, the more we bring out the image we are created in, from within us, the more we shed the material frame and become a Spiritual being. Then when the inevitable first material death arrives, it is a transition from one reality into another, from the flesh to the spirit, that the second death can never overtake.

This is a big and fascinating topic and the Baha'i writings now contain a great deal of information for us to consider.

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

Thank you for the Question. From my understanding of the Baha'i Writings, the Soul/Spirit that was Jesus the Christ and Baha'u'llah are to be considered as per Acts 7:55 "But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the Glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God".

That passage to me can be read a few ways. It could be a prophecy saying that Stephen saw Baha'u'llah and Jesus standing on the right Hand of God, or it could say that Stephen saw Baha'u'llah and Jesus standing to the Right of Baha'u'llah,the Father, as we know the Bible has said no one has seen God. John 1:18 "No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."

It is not a world of time or place, it is a spiritual existence. "You have asked concerning eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom. The Kingdom is outwardly referred to as “heaven”, but this is an expression and likeness and not a factual statement or reality. For the Kingdom is not a material location but is sanctified above time and place. It is a spiritual realm, a divine world, and it is the seat of the sovereignty of the almighty Lord. It is exalted above bodies and all that is corporeal, and it is freed and sanctified from the idle conjectures of men. For to be confined to place is a characteristic of bodies and not of spirits: Time and place encompass the body, not the mind and the soul." Abdul'baha (Some Answered Questions) www.bahai.org/r/552379286

I am unable to tell you as to what form the Manifestations, or we take in the next world, if I could tell you that, I would most likely not be here.

As to what we may see in our next reality, "Those who have passed on through death, have a sphere of their own. It is not removed from ours; their work… is ours; but it is sanctified from what we call “time and place.” – Abdu’l-Baha in London, p. 96.

Regards Tony

Just a question. Did Bahaullah raise any dead people when he was alive on the earth?

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, thank you for the questions, I appreciate you took the time.

I see that over time many people have come to their own conclusions as to where Jesus Christ went. I see it was nowhere but all around us. I see all the Messengers from God are the Spirit that is behind all creation. Faith in them allows us to be born again and thus become spiritual creatures, even still while living this life.

The more we connect with faith, to the spirit of the Messengers that surrounds us, the more we bring out the image we are created in, from within us, the more we shed the material frame and become a Spiritual being. Then when the inevitable first material death arrives, it is a transition from one reality into another, from the flesh to the spirit, that the second death can never overtake.

This is a big and fascinating topic and the Baha'i writings now contain a great deal of information for us to consider.

Regards Tony

Not sure if you answered in another post, but was the body of Bahaullah buried somewhere on earth?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Just a question. Did Bahaullah raise any dead people when he was alive on the earth?

Yes and still does.

If you are talking about material miracles, all Prophets from God can and do carry out amazing healing, but it is not why they are giving the Message.

Consider if they heal a body, it just dies again

If they heal the spirit, death can not overtake it. The second death is that of the Spirit.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not sure if you answered in another post, but was the body of Bahaullah buried somewhere on earth?

I see the meaning of the question you ask and I can answer that with a thought.

Jesus body was buried and was raised as Christ after 3 days, in Spirit. Baha'u'llah was raised prior to burial and in reality, was never buried.

I personally see that a Faith in Christ, does not need the body of Jesus.

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes and still does.

If you are talking about material miracles, all Prophets from God can and do carry out amazing healing, but it is not why they are giving the Message.

Consider if they heal a body, it just dies again

If they heal the spirit, death can not overtake it. The second death is that of the Spirit.

Regards Tony

Can you please tell me the eyewitness accounts or recording of the resurrections he performed?

 

[YoursTrue]

I see the meaning of the question you ask and I can answer that with a thought.

Jesus body was buried and was raised as Christ after 3 days, in Spirit. Baha'u'llah was raised prior to burial and in reality, was never buried.

I personally see that a Faith in Christ, does not need the body of Jesus.

Regards Tony

So there is no grave with his body? Also, where was Bahaullah raised from -- what place? Any eyewitnesses of this raising?

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes and still does.

If you are talking about material miracles, all Prophets from God can and do carry out amazing healing, but it is not why they are giving the Message.

Consider if they heal a body, it just dies again

If they heal the spirit, death can not overtake it. The second death is that of the Spirit.

Regards Tony

So were there any "materially dead" people he raised back to life? I mean like dead and buried in a tomb or grave that he resurrected?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Can you please tell me the eyewitness accounts or recording of the resurrections he performed?

As a Baha'i we are asked not to talk about this aspect of Faith, as a Messenger comes to change hearts and not show their God given Power of creation.

This is the advice we have.

"I do not wish to mention the miracles of Bahá’u’lláh, for it may perhaps be said that these are traditions, liable both to truth and to error, like the accounts of the miracles of Christ in the Gospel, which come to us from the apostles, and not from anyone else, and are denied by the Jews . . . Yes, miracles are proofs for the eyewitness only, and even he may regard them not as a miracle but as an enchantment. Extraordinary feats have also been related of some conjurors. Briefly, my meaning is that many wonderful things were done by Bahá’u’lláh, but we do not recount them, as they do not constitute proofs and evidences for all the peoples of the earth, and they are not decisive proofs even for those who see them: they may think that they are merely enchantments. Also, most of the miracles of the Prophets which are mentioned have an inner significance . . . Our purpose is not to deny such miracles; our only meaning is that they do not constitute decisive proofs, and that they have an inner significance."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, p. 37

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Are you sure, or are you guessing? I'm figuring his mother was Muslim (just from her name).

It is an educated guess. Bahá’u’lláh’s Father was a minister of the government in the court of the Shah of Persia. Persia had been predominantly Muslim since the eighth century but became Shi’a as opposed to Sunni over three hundred years ago. Those who were Sunni Muslim in Persia had three choices: convert to Sha’i, leave Persia or face execution. So in government during the early nineteenth century anything outside of Shi’a Islam was held in low esteem.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So there is no grave with his body? Also, where was Bahaullah raised from -- what place? Any eyewitnesses of this raising?

You are asking the question with a given material frame of reference that you have accepted about Jesus, to which I have a different spiritual based view. Thus you would be aware that I am answering with an alternate frame of reference, about the Metephor that is the Resurrection of Jesus the Christ, a Messenger of God.

I am sure you would know the location where the remains of Baha'u'llah lay, as for the remains of Christ, we can not know at this time where they did find their final resting place. They may be found in the future, they may not be, but buried they were.

There is a documentary available that a group think they have found where Jesus was most likely buried, they have a very strong case.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

May I ask upon what writing or eye-witness affirmation do you have that the soul progresses through the worlds of God beyond this mortal life? How many mortal lives do Bahai's believe we have?

Baha’is believe we have an eternal soul and there are numerous writings from the sacred writings that affirm this.

And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty. – Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 155.

The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High. The light which these souls radiate is responsible for the progress of the world and the advancement of its peoples. They are like unto leaven which leaveneth the world of being, and constitute the animating force through which the arts and wonders of the world are made manifest. – Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 155.

…if the body undergoes a change, the spirit need not be touched. When you break a glass on which the sun shines, the glass is broken, but the sun still shines! If a cage containing a bird is destroyed, the bird is unharmed! If a lamp is broken, the flame can still burn bright! The same thing applies to the spirit of man. Though death destroy his body, it has no power over his spirit — this is eternal, everlasting, both birthless and deathless. – Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, pp. 65-66.

Do Baha’is Believe in Life After Death?

As life beyond this mortal realm is as incomprehensible to us as the world beyond the womb is to the fetus, we are unable to elaborate on how many worlds of God exist beyond this one.

 

[YoursTrue]

As a Baha'i we are asked not to talk about this aspect of Faith, as a Messenger comes to change hearts and not show their God given Power of creation.

This is the advice we have.

"I do not wish to mention the miracles of Bahá’u’lláh, for it may perhaps be said that these are traditions, liable both to truth and to error, like the accounts of the miracles of Christ in the Gospel, which come to us from the apostles, and not from anyone else, and are denied by the Jews . . . Yes, miracles are proofs for the eyewitness only, and even he may regard them not as a miracle but as an enchantment. Extraordinary feats have also been related of some conjurors. Briefly, my meaning is that many wonderful things were done by Bahá’u’lláh, but we do not recount them, as they do not constitute proofs and evidences for all the peoples of the earth, and they are not decisive proofs even for those who see them: they may think that they are merely enchantments. Also, most of the miracles of the Prophets which are mentioned have an inner significance . . . Our purpose is not to deny such miracles; our only meaning is that they do not constitute decisive proofs, and that they have an inner significance."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, p. 37

Regards Tony

So there are insofar as you know, no specific records of any resurrections from the dead back to life on this Earth that Bahaullah performed. Ok, got it at least from you. Thank you.

 

[YoursTrue]

You are asking the question with a given material frame of reference that you have accepted about Jesus, to which I have a different spiritual based view. Thus you would be aware that I am answering with an alternate frame of reference, about the Metephor that is the Resurrection of Jesus the Christ, a Messenger of God.

I am sure you would know the location where the remains of Baha'u'llah lay, as for the remains of Christ, we can not know at this time where they did find their final resting place. They may be found in the future, they may not be, but buried they were.

There is a documentary available that a group think they have found where Jesus was most likely buried, they have a very strong case.

Regards Tony

I am asking the question as to any specific reference to whether Bahaullah died and was buried and then ascended. By that I mean eyewitness account. If I understand you correctly, there are no historical references by eyewitnesses.

 

[YoursTrue]

You are asking the question with a given material frame of reference that you have accepted about Jesus, to which I have a different spiritual based view. Thus you would be aware that I am answering with an alternate frame of reference, about the Metephor that is the Resurrection of Jesus the Christ, a Messenger of God.

I am sure you would know the location where the remains of Baha'u'llah lay, as for the remains of Christ, we can not know at this time where they did find their final resting place. They may be found in the future, they may not be, but buried they were.

There is a documentary available that a group think they have found where Jesus was most likely buried, they have a very strong case.

Regards Tony

So perhaps I misunderstood you. Is there any written reference as an eyewitness account to Bahaullah's death? How did he die? What age was he when he died?

 

[YoursTrue]

It is an educated guess. Bahá’u’lláh’s Father was a minister of the government in the court of the Shah of Persia. Persia had been predominantly Muslim since the eighth century but became Shi’a as opposed to Sunni over three hundred years ago. Those who were Sunni Muslim in Persia had three choices: convert to Sha’i, leave Persia or face execution. So in government during the early nineteenth century anything outside of Shi’a Islam was held in low esteem.

Thank you.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So perhaps I misunderstood you. Is there any written reference as an eyewitness account to Bahaullah's death? How did he die? What age was he when he died?

I will answer in a way that covers both the questions you have been asking, in a way I see the Ascension unfolds.

Jesus was most likely about 33 when Jesus was put to death by Crucifixion and buried. After 3 days the disciples came to the realisation that you can not Kill a Messenger of God, as they are the Message. Christ had thus risen and the Diciples started building the stories of Faith of the risen Christ, storied most likely built on events enspired by visions of the risen Christ, to which there is no human words available that could describe such visions, but in the way they offered and founded the body of Christ to come, the Church.

Siyyid ʻAlí Muhammad Shírází who was known as the Bab (Gate) lived a life in parallel to Jesus, all that Jesus went through, the Bab also shared over a longer period of time, twice the time in fact, 6 years of Revelation. The Bab was executed at age 30 and the Ascension opened the way for people to now embrace the coming of the 'Glory of God'. That promise swept around the world. The remains of the Bab and that of a Diciple are buried on Mount Carmel.

Baha'u'llah passed away a Prisoner after 40 years of Revelation, Ascended and was buried at Bahji near Akka in 1892. The Glory of God now gives light and direction to the world.

3 Material bodies gone, Christ as the Son was never buried and to me and many others is seen in and now known through the Bab and then as Baha'u'llah the Father, who all still Live.

A Son becomes a Father.

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

I will answer in a way that covers both the questions you have been asking, in a way I see the Ascension unfolds.

Jesus was most likely about 33 when Jesus was put to death by Crucifixion and buried. After 3 days the disciples came to the realisation that you can not Kill a Messenger of God, as they are the Message. Christ had thus risen and the Diciples started building the stories of Faith of the risen Christ, storied most likely built on events enspired by visions of the risen Christ, to which there is no human words available that could describe such visions, but in the way they offered and founded the body of Christ to come, the Church.

Siyyid ʻAlí Muhammad Shírází who was known as the Bab (Gate) lived a life in parallel to Jesus, all that Jesus went through, the Bab also shared over a longer period of time, twice the time in fact, 6 years of Revelation. The Bab was executed at age 30 and the Ascension opened the way for people to now embrace the coming of the 'Glory of God'. That promise swept around the world. The remains of the Bab and that of a Diciple are buried on Mount Carmel.

Baha'u'llah passed away a Prisoner after 40 years of Revelation, Ascended and was buried at Bahji near Akka in 1892. The Glory of God now gives light and direction to the world.

3 Material bodies gone, Christ as the Son was never buried and to me and many others is seen in and now known through the Bab and then as Baha'u'llah the Father, who all still Live.

A Son becomes a Father.

Regards Tony

Yes,, a son can become a father. But did anyone see the Bab ascend?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes,, a son can become a father. But did anyone see the Bab ascend?

Just as many spiritually aware people saw the Ascension of Christ, so did many also have visions of the Risen Bab and Baha'u'llah.

I know of many that still have these experiences.

The Key here is that Acceptance of the Risen Christ, requires us to live as Christ asked and know, that not all will experience Faith with these types of visions.

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

Just as many spiritually aware people saw the Ascension of Christ, so did many also have visions of the Risen Bab and Baha'u'llah.

I know of many that still have these experiences.

The Key here is that Acceptance of the Risen Christ, requires us to live as Christ asked and know, that not all will experience Faith with these types of visions.

Regards Tony

So again, what written accounts are there of the Bab's ascension. Is his body still buried? I think you said there are no written accounts of his ascension. And where did you say his bodily remains are? Maybe you said where but I forgot. Thank you, you are helpful. Visions are not the same as actual sights. Unless you want to say everything is a vision. Thanks again, this conversation has really helped. Be well.