Asatruarfelagid getting hate mail

[Jainarayan]

The Icelandic Pagan Association receives hate-mail from reactionary pagans abroad | Icelandmag

This is completely unacceptable. Non-Icelandic, non-Ásatrúarfélagið Asatrúar and Pagans are dictating what the Ásatrúarfélagið can and cannot do in their own "home"? Have they not read the Hávamál and its words about being a guest? I don't go to someone's house and start redecorating because I don't like their taste in drapes.

 

[The Hammer]

The Icelandic Pagan Association receives hate-mail from reactionary pagans abroad | Icelandmag

This is completely unacceptable. Non-Icelandic, non-Ásatrúarfélagið Asatrúar and Pagans are dictating what the Ásatrúarfélagið can and cannot do in their own "home"? Have they not read the Hávamál and its words about being a guest? I don't go to someone's house and start redecorating because I don't like their taste in drapes.

That is ridiculous, foreign groups should in no way be able to influence their views. What they need to do is tell those haters to kindly buzz off and practice their own views inter country. I actually have more respect for Iceland now, and would love to visit their temple even more now once it is done.

 

[Jainarayan]

That is ridiculous, foreign groups should in no way be able to influence their views. What they need to do is tell those haters to kindly buzz off and practice their own views inter country. I actually have more respect for Iceland now, and would love to visit their temple even more now once it is done.

Not to start rumors but I wouldn't be surprised if they were "prison-trúar" and hardcore folkish.

 

[The Hammer]

Not to start rumors but I wouldn't be surprised if they were "prison-trúar" and hardcore folkish.

The Icelanders? Possibly. Not sure. Or do you mean the ridiculous groups mailing them?

 

[Jainarayan]

The groups mailing them. I got the impression they were mainly Americans.

 

[Father Heathen]

Odd. I thought pagans in general were a tolerant bunch. I wonder from what specific groups they've received hate mail from.

 

[Riverwolf]

Odd. I thought pagans in general were a tolerant bunch. I wonder from what specific groups they've received hate mail from.

We are, but Asatru/Heathenry somehow tends to attract folks who are ... less tolerant, shall we say?

Or just outright say it: there's an uncomfortably loud Neo-Nazi-esque presence in Heathenry.

The groups mailing them. I got the impression they were mainly Americans.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised, particularly if this is about tolerance for homosexuality.

 

[Aupmanyav]

As a fellow pagan and heathen, I wish Icelandic Asatrúar success and happiness. Just do not worry about the hate-mailers. We have a saying that the elephant does not care about barking dogs. You do your thing.

 

[Jainarayan]

We are, but Asatru/Heathenry somehow tends to attract folks who are ... less tolerant, shall we say?

I'm finding out that it can be very tribal and clannish in addition to intolerant. Or at least some adherents are. I find it odd because, unless I miss my guess, there are so few tribes and kindreds. For example, I have a serious problem with the tone of another Heathen site. But it became clear to me why that's so, from a comment someone there made that most of them are tribalists. Given that there are few regulars there, now I understand. But I think that is a loud minority. They are their own tribe, and outsiders are not very welcome. Though in their defense they denounced the hate mail, and feel what Iceland does is Iceland's business. On the other hand they made it clear that they disagree with Iceland's form of Ásatrú. From what I'm gathering, most Heathens and Ásatrúar, like me, are solo practitioners. I have no tribe, I have no clan, I have no kindred. Even "community" is something that's lacking nowadays - but I'm digressing even further.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm finding out that it can be very tribal and clannish in addition to intolerant. Or at least some adherents are. I find it odd because, unless I miss my guess, there are so few tribes and kindreds. For example, I have a serious problem with the tone of another Heathen site. But it became clear to me why that's so, from a comment someone there made that most of them are tribalists. Given that there are few regulars there, now I understand. But I think that is a loud minority. They are their own tribe, and outsiders are not very welcome. Though in their defense they denounced the hate mail, and feel what Iceland does is Iceland's business. On the other hand they made it clear that they disagree with Iceland's form of Ásatrú. From what I'm gathering, most Heathens and Ásatrúar, like me, are solo practitioners. I have no tribe, I have no clan, I have no kindred. Even "community" is something that's lacking nowadays - but I'm digressing even further.

I do have a "Tribe"... and that "Tribe" consists of my friends and family, among whom Moonwater and I are the only Pagans of any sort (at least to my knowledge).

I do understand, and to a degree sympathize with, the desire for a tribal identity. Humans are naturally tribe-social to begin with. But to organize it too much into something that resembles the old, pre-Christian days... that's not really compatible with the modern world. Honestly, if the idea gains too much traction, the word "tribe" could end up becoming synonymous, in common parlance, with "gang". I'd honestly rather keep that aspect limited to historical reenactment/roleplay, just to keep things from getting ugly.

Or, at the very least, keep the attitude similar to that of sports teams/fans.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Damn, that is rude. "How dare you treat other people like human beings in your own sacred place? Who do you think you are?!"

It's not as if Asatru is like Christianity where it's competing sects or anything; everyone does their own thing. Who are these people to say Asatruarfelagid are doing it wrong?

 

[Whiterain]

I was trying to tell you guys that this universalist idea wasn't going to go well.

Some overseas see it as a sense of cultural rebirth and also a sense of Nationalism.

The last overseas pagan I talked to was Norwegian, she said it's about them, not you.

Basically **** off.

It's about them.

 

[Riverwolf]

I was trying to tell you guys that this universalist idea wasn't going to go well.

What universalist idea do you speak of?

 

[Whiterain]

What universalist idea do you speak of?

That everything is going to slide well with old religion.

 

[Riverwolf]

That everything is going to slide well with old religion.

Not sure I'd call that kind of idea "universalist". Overly optimistic, maybe.

 

[Jainarayan]

Something that seems to be lost on these people is that the Ásatrúarfélagið is an Icelandic association and speaks only for Ásatrúar who belong to the Ásatrúarfélagið in Iceland. This is analogous to people believing the Dalai Lama speaks for all of Buddhism; he doesn't. He speaks only for one sect of Tibetan Buddhism. He is no more the Buddhapope than Hilmar Örn Hilmarsson is the Ásapope. There are other Heathens in Iceland who are not Ásatrúar or belong to the Ásatrúarfélagið. This is something these outsiders must be made to understand. That they have a problem with the Ásatrúarfélagið is further analogous to me going to an Ásatrú Folk Assembly blót or sumbel, or association meeting and saying they have to do it such-and-such way because they are wrong. People are just too full of themselves.

 

[Riverwolf]

Something that seems to be lost on these people is that the Ásatrúarfélagið is an Icelandic association and speaks only for Ásatrúar who belong to the Ásatrúarfélagið in Iceland. This is analogous to people believing the Dalai Lama speaks for all of Buddhism; he doesn't. He speaks only for one sect of Tibetan Buddhism. He is no more the Buddhapope than Hilmar Örn Hilmarsson is the Ásapope. There are other Heathens in Iceland who are not Ásatrúar or belong to the Ásatrúarfélagið. This is something these outsiders must be made to understand. That they have a problem with the Ásatrúarfélagið is further analogous to me going to an Ásatrú Folk Assembly blót or sumbel, or association meeting and saying they have to do it such-and-such way because they are wrong. People are just too full of themselves.

It's also a very modern, very imperialistic way of looking at things. Just by the fact that there were plenty of regional variations of classic Germanic legends (few of which survived in modern Anglo-American culture ), I think it's pretty safe to say that the old Tribes didn't do this sort of thing, or if they did, it wasn't often or those who did were resisted.

 

[Jainarayan]

There's a FB comments section for one of the magazine articles. Two people said to the effect "well, our forebears would not have put up with this [same sex marriage]". I said our forebears also practiced human sacrifice so if you want to hold to the old customs have at it. I said a few other things that would get me a rule 1 here, but on FB all bets are off.

 

[Riverwolf]

There's a FB comments section for one of the magazine articles. Two people said to the effect "well, our forebears would not have put up with this [same sex marriage]". I said our forebears also practiced human sacrifice so if you want to hold to the old customs have at it. I said a few other things that would get me a rule 1 here, but on FB all bets are off.

Our "forebears" also often thought that a good way to secure wealth was to pillage churches.

...wait, what's the source for this claim? I was under the impression that surviving accounts on pre-Christian traditions are wholly silent on the idea of same-sex relationships.

 

[Jainarayan]

I was under the impression that surviving accounts on pre-Christian traditions are wholly silent on the idea of same-sex relationships.

I'm not exactly sure, but this site seems to get referred to often. She seems to have a pretty good handle on the Viking Age...

Viking Answer Lady Webpage - Daily Life In Viking Age Scandinavia Page
Viking Answer Lady Webpage - Homosexuality in Viking Scandinavia