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As in Adam all die (what about Eve?)

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The expression is make 180 degree turn as in going in the opposite direction. If you make a 360 degree turn you make a full circle and right where you started.

It was more metaphoric than mathematically accurate.....I was aiming for a picture of a complete turnaround......:D You can make it 180 if it makes it more acceptable to you....:)
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I'm still confused. Why "in Adam all die", not "As in Eve all died", or as "in Adam and Eve all die" ?

And it was not a life for a life, not 1:1. It was a life for 2 perfect lives.

And if they were really perfect, why, with their perfect minds, did they choose to eat the fruit? Seems like "perfect" people would not eat the fruit?

Perhaps because the "seed" is in Adam?

Perfect minds, with free will, doesn't always translate into perfect decision as free will, I guess.

It doesn't say "why" they choose so we are relegated to theological viewpoints. In that Eve was deceived, my view is simply she made decisions on false information.

Why did Adam choose? Perhaps because when he didn't see immediate consequences with his wife, he decided there might be "another way" for life? Perhaps, if he knew that consequences were real, he didn't want to live without his wife?

Again, we can only have opinions.

We do know that a perfect angel, Lucifer (is what some people call him), let pride set in. So apparently perfectness doesn't translate into perfect decisions when personal willpower is involved.
 

idea

Question Everything
Perhaps because the "seed" is in Adam?

Perfect minds, with free will, doesn't always translate into perfect decision as free will, I guess.

We do know that a perfect angel, Lucifer (is what some people call him), let pride set in. So apparently perfectness doesn't translate into perfect decisions when personal willpower is involved.

Perhaps we need to define perfect differently. Perhaps Eden was not stimulating enough, too boring, no challenges - perhaps Eden was not perfect.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Perhaps we need to define perfect differently. Perhaps Eden was not stimulating enough, too boring, no challenges - perhaps Eden was not perfect.

I think it was more than that and that Eden was perfect. God gave everything and, in my view, reserved a Tree saying "please recognize Me in that, after I have given you everything, by not eating that which recognizes who is the one who created and gave".

Basically, they committed spiritual adultery and divorces themselves from God.

Thankful that, as in Hosea, their spiritual prostitution didn't stop God from pursuing the object of His love, mankind. He purchased them back through the Cross and His blood.

Another way of looking at it, we forget to be grateful for all that we have by looking at what we don't have instead of what we do. We see it playing out so often in every day living.

I have two cars, a computer, a home, enjoying restaurants and have food on my table but the rich people have more than I and its not fair. And then they become bitter at what they don't have instead of finding contentment in what they do.

(Don't want to sidetrack Eden with this example) - just thinking of a modern day application
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Are you asking about original sin? That’s a Christian concept. Apparently you do not know much about Judaism.
We know that the Pharisees believe in the resurrection of the dead, what evidence do they have for this belief?

The more interesting question is: Why would you respond to a statement about the role of original sin in Judaism with a question about the the resurrection of the dead? It's as if I stated "spinach pizza is best with anchovies" only to have you quote me and then ask pointedly: "Jews believe that chicken soup cures all ills. What evidence do they have for this belief?"
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
The more interesting question is: Why would you respond to a statement about the role of original sin in Judaism with a question about the the resurrection of the dead? It's as if I stated "spinach pizza is best with anchovies" only to have you quote me and then ask pointedly: "Jews believe that chicken soup cures all ills. What evidence do they have for this belief?"
I assume that @The Anointed was planning to make some kind of point based upon my answer, tie it in in some fashion, and I was going to ask him his purpose, but, dang, you beat me to it.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Eve's role in what? In the biggest picture, she's the mother of us all. I don't agree with the sexist interpretation of blaming her more than Adam for the fall of man. It's unjust. I personally prefer the Islamic take where they both repented and are basically recognized as saints and friends of God (although the Catholic Church actually recognizes both Adam and Eve as saints). After all, they're pretty much metaphors for all humans and our weaknesses.

Agreed that Islam does indeed explain that both were forgiven and more importantly, both were EQUALLY guilty of the sin in the first place. However we do not have a concept of sainthood and Adam was the first Prophet of God, with Eve as his wife. Not saints,
 
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