1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured As a Christian I'm against religion.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by John1.12, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. Rival

    Rival Inodj har-ek Amun-Ra
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    21,910
    Ratings:
    +33,068
    Religion:
    Heka
    I'm just going to assume you haven't read the entirety of the Hindu religious scriptures; The Book of Going forth by Day, The Pyramid Texts, The Coffin Texts, The Amduat; the Gathas, the Avesta and other such scriptures. It would be quite a feat if you had, but if you haven't you've really no way to speak of 'no other religious text comes close'.
     
    #61 Rival, Jun 4, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  2. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    I should have added. " Certain ' religions focus mainly on Jesus words spoken to Israel, about the Gospel of the kingdom, The tribulation , millennium or just plain out of context, always before the cross and resurrection. And always deny Paul in some way .
     
  3. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    Matthew 25:14–30 is plainly the case of a Tribulation worker who does not “endure unto the end” (Matt. 24:13, 25:30) The church is raptured out before the tribulation begins. These verses are not to Christians ( the body of Christ)
     
  4. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    Some ,but not all . I followed Eastern practices for over 15 years prior to being a Christian.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Grēne Mann
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2019
    Messages:
    2,908
    Ratings:
    +4,125
    Religion:
    My Own Path
    A contradiction is when you have two (or more) recollections of an account where both accounts can't be correct, or neither one could be correct.

    An example of this is the story of Jairus. In Mark 5:21-24 vs. Matthew 9:18-20, Jesus is encountered by Jairus saying that his daughter is very ill and he asks him to heal her, in the other he encounters Jesus saying that his daughter is dead and can he raise her from the dead. They both cannot be correct, so which one is the right account?

    You may think this is just a small detail, and who cares, but ultimately the bible is filled with discrepancies like this. You could say that it's the differences in the points of views told in the gospels, but what about when this happens outside of the gospels?

    In Matthew, Judas dies via hanging himself. In Act's, he dies a much more violent death via falling head first and spilling his guts out of his bowels. Right here you have one account where one foot is squarely within the gospels, while the other is squarely outside of them. So, which one is the correct one? How did Judas really die?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    If you reject Paul's revelation given by Jesus then you might have missed Galations 3
    10¶For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

    11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

    12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

    13¶Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    (cf. Gen. 12:1–3 )
    15¶Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

    16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

    18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

    19¶Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

    21¶Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

    22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

    24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    26¶For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
     
  7. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    What you have is two separate people detailing the same event but focusing on different elements. It would be more suspicious if every account was exactly the same .
     
  8. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Grēne Mann
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2019
    Messages:
    2,908
    Ratings:
    +4,125
    Religion:
    My Own Path
    So when two witnesses tell two different stories about the same thing, they are both right?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    14,714
    Ratings:
    +3,868
    Religion:
    Islam
    What is your definition of religion?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    28,415
    Ratings:
    +8,335
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    If you are a follower of Jesus you would focus on Jesus words spoken to Israel and about the Gospel of the kingdom; not the kingdom of God on earth, but the kingdom of God in heaven, since that is what Jesus came to preach.

    The cross is important since Jesus chose to sacrifice Himself for the sins and i equities of all of humanity, but the resurrection is superfluous since Jesus never said He rose from the dead and such a belief is completely unnecessary to attain salvation.

    I agree that the tribulation and millennium are just plain out of context since they have nothing to do with Jesus or Christianity; they are about what would happen in the new age, after Baha'u'llah appeared and the 1000 year reign of the Messiah began.
     
  11. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    Mar 5:21-28 KJV -
    21 And when Jesus was passed over again by ship unto the other side, much people gathered unto him: and he was nigh unto the sea.
    22 And, behold, there cometh one of the rulers of the synagogue, Jairus by name; and when he saw him, he fell at his feet,
    23 And besought him greatly, saying, My little daughter lieth at the point of death: I pray thee, come and lay thy hands on her, that she may be healed; and she shall live.
    Matt9
    18¶While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

    19And Jesus arose, and followed him, and so did his disciples.

    Luk 8:40-47 (KJV)
    Luk 8:40-47 KJV -
    40 And it came to pass, that, when Jesus was returned, the people gladly received him: for they were all waiting for him.
    41 And, behold, there came a man named Jairus, and he was a ruler of the synagogue: and he fell down at Jesus' feet, and besought him that he would come into his house:
    42 For he had one only daughter, about twelve years of age, and she lay a dying. But as he went the people thronged him.


    The clue is in Luke verse 42 . Clearly she dies before Jesus gets there .
     
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    28,415
    Ratings:
    +8,335
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    You can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say by cherry picking verses and assigning meanings to them.
    That's why there are so many different beliefs among Christians.

    There is no tribulation or rapture and there is no end of the world. The Bible talks about the end of an age. The end of the age of prophecy came when Baha'u'llah appeared and fulfilled all the prophecies for the return of Christ and the Messiah. That in turn signaled the beginning of a new age, a new cycle of religion, called the cycle of fulfillment, since all the Bible prophecies will be fulfilled during this cycle..
     
  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    28,415
    Ratings:
    +8,335
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Paul did not get a revelation from God or Jesus.

    10¶For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

    Cursed be Paul for changing what Jesus taught and thereby changing the course of Christianity from what it could have been.

    How Paul changed the course of Christianity
     
  14. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Grēne Mann
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2019
    Messages:
    2,908
    Ratings:
    +4,125
    Religion:
    My Own Path
    Ok. So was she dead before or after Jairus had spoken to Jesus and asked for his help? You have two accounts saying that the daughter was alive at that time, and one saying that she was already dead at that point. Two said he asked for a healing, and one said he asked for a straight up resurrection.

    So, do greater numbers mean that it's more likely that she was alive at that point, 2 to 1?
     
  15. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    Again ,In a nut shell its to attain by doing This can involve abstaining, following practices, self denial
    I would sum up in a nut shell that most religions are to attain something by what we do , Where as Christianity is about what Jesus did to attain for us .
     
  16. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    14,714
    Ratings:
    +3,868
    Religion:
    Islam
    Where did you get that definition from? Arbitrary or objective?
     
  17. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    Without Paul's 13 epistles, Which are inseparable from the NT , you won't understand most of the NT .
     
  18. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +281
    Religion:
    Christian
    The bible.
     
  19. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    14,714
    Ratings:
    +3,868
    Religion:
    Islam
    This definition is from the bible? Please give the verse to make what you claim about your Gods word true.

    This is your definition.

    • Again ,In a nut shell its to attain by doing This can involve abstaining, following practices, self denial
    • I would sum up in a nut shell that most religions are to attain something by what we do , Where as Christianity is about what Jesus did to attain for us .
    So, which verse?
     
  20. Ashoka

    Ashoka At Your Seva

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    669
    Ratings:
    +312
    Religion:
    Sanatana Dharma
    What specifically did you follow? Just curious.
     
Loading...