Arrogancy

[hoomer]

It seems to me personally that many religions like to teach theirs is the only way....

Why is this?

ideas such as

"The Catholic Church, established by Christ, alone possesses the fullness of truth, and it is our duty and great privilege to share that truth with others."

The Spoils: 8:38-40
"Tell the unbelievers that if they mend their ways [abandon 'unbelief'/'idolatry'] their past shall be forgiven; but if they persist in sin ['idolatry'] ...Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme."

no ne may reach the father through ceptmthrough the son,....

etc there are many examples....

Why DOES religion preach seperatness and exclusivity? why does it teach that ONY MY WAY IS RIGHT?

Whereas Hinduism for isntance...acepts ALL religions....

Why are people so arrogant they assume that they and ONLY they have the "truth"????

Of course Relgion is far from solely guilty in this....atheism is too...in fact so are many things....

Is there reay such a thing as Objective truth?

Is the moon made of cheese?

:bonk:

When we have great power we must give it away, a cup can ony be filed if it is emptied

 

[No*s]

Well, if you believe that Catholicism (or Orthodoxy in my case) is the one place where Truth is incarnate, and the sole, complete source of religious truth, then you will affirm it .

Now, setting aside the tongue-in-cheek comment, I believe that Christ founded the Church, and that the Spirit guides the Church. I also believe that it is the only source I can go to with complete truth about God. While I won't deny that other religions have a bit of truth, I will also follow my beliefs.

What I always find interesting is people who insist that we all say basically the same thing, and are all really one...but get upset at the claim. In the perspective you put forth, we all have truth and error (or maybe just all truth), and in that case, why get upset about one error over another?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I prefer the humilitancy of religious naturalism.

 

[hoomer]

I prefer the humilitancy of religious naturalism.

what is this?

 

[hoomer]

What I always find interesting is people who insist that we all say basically the same thing, and are all really one...but get upset at the claim. In the perspective you put forth, we all have truth and error (or maybe just all truth), and in that case, why get upset about one error over another?

good point ...the problem is people die and kill for truth.....

I just think its foolish to asume that I and only I have the truth and nothing but the truth ....

:bonk: I think yes everyone is wrong.....

I dunno I just thinkits arrogant to assume that I have the truth and no one else does....I think there are many truths and many ways to approach God......

Get upset? I do not understand what you mean?....... I am a panentheist (not a pentheist) in my views.....I would never get upset toward allusions upon the idea of all being one...:banghead3

 

[No*s]

good point ...the problem is people die and kill for truth.....

And people have oppressed and hurt others for denying the point you have expressed. Either exclusivity, "they aren't like use...them!" or inclusivity "Look at that arrogant sect, they think they have it all figured out...punish them!" have been used, and will be used, to punish those who disagree.

The real question is why shouldn't both groups tolerate each other?

I just think its foolish to asume that I and only I have the truth and nothing but the truth ....

:bonk: I think yes everyone is wrong.....

I dunno I just thinkits arrogant to assume that I have the truth and no one else does....I think there are many truths and many ways to approach God......

It may well be. However, take Orthodox Christians (of whom I am one) as a test case. Is it arrogant for us to say that we believe God revealed things to us, and that since it holds exclusivity for us to hold that? We aren't making it up there, we are believing another's claim. Now, if the claim is false, then its perpetrator is being arrogant, but we simply believe it.

As a result, it would probably be more arrogant of us to change our claims without first changing our beliefs .

Get upset? I do not understand what you mean?....... I am a panentheist (not a pentheist) in my views.....I would never get upset toward allusions upon the idea of all being one...:banghead3

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. I was referring to those who believe we all believe the same basic thing getting upset about people who believe in exclusivity. It always seems curious to me (and an implicit denial of the belief).

I've run across it a few times on the board, and a few times in real time lately, and it is most perplexing. I would think it wouldn't get any more air time than other errors, but it doesn't.

 

[SoulTYPE]

I know what you mean No*S. I believe I posted on this before.

"I dunno I just thinkits arrogant to assume that I have the truth and no one else does...."

But this does not apply only to Christians/Believers. There are people who believe they know the truth on God far better than anyone else, thus downing everyone else's opinions beliefs without even considering them.

Oh hi Deut rofl.

 

[SoulTYPE]

Please note that the baove is only a minor example. people who say they know all on God have the possobility of being wrong, and not spreading the correct word on God.

 

[Circle_One]

I get this a lot, certain people claiming that only their way is the right way and since I don't follow their way I am wrong and I am condemned to burn eternally, and for the most, it annoys me. I'd say 90% of the people I know are not like this and do not ostricize me for not believing as they do, but I have come across a fair amount of those who are like that.

The way I see it is this: my path, my beliefs, etc. are the absolute truth for me because this is what I believe, but that is not to say that my beliefs are the absolute truth for everyone else, because thinking that, IMHO, is wrong. You're beliefs are the absolute truth for you as well mine should be for me, so why be disrespectful and call my beliefs wrong simply because you do not believe them? I've never done this to anyone, so why do people do it to me?

 

[Sunstone]

I've never done this to anyone, so why do people do it to me?

I suspect some people gain a sense of self-importance by believing that they have spiritual knowledge and/or insights which are superior to the knowledge and insights of other people. It seems to me that if someone's sense of self-importance rests on such a flimsy grounds as that, then they are in trouble to begin with.

 

[SoulTYPE]

Well put SS, frubals to thee.

Maybe it is also because the believer may think that the non-believer is putting down the believer's religion by not choosing to accept it, if that made sense

 

[Circle_One]

I suspect some people gain a sense of self-importance by believing that they have spiritual knowledge and/or insights which are superior to the knowledge and insights of other people. It seems to me that if someone's sense of self-importance rests on such a flimsy grounds as that, then they are in trouble to begin with.

This is to be sure Sunstone, but the thing that always gets me is that they use this condemnation as a means of attempting to convert me. Do people honestly believe that I will be converted from my path unto a religion that has followers so intolerant and ignorant as to tell me I will burn in hell for eternity and that my beliefs are wrong, damning, etc.?

There are better ways to go about attempting to convert someone, are there not? Ok, stupid question, obviously there are, but the above mentioned way just manages to push me further from their beliefs as it makes me see their religion as one of intolerance and bigotry where as the one I follow teaches acceptance and respect of all others.

Now, please do not get me wrong, I'm not generalizing that all followers of said other religion are like this, as I know they are not, there is only a select minority like this, as I've previously said, I'm just trying to get my point across, I mean no offense to anyone, I hope you all understand this.

 

[SoulTYPE]

There are better ways to go about attempting to convert someone, are there not? Ok, stupid question, obviously there are, but the above mentioned way just manages to push me further from their beliefs
.

I agree entirely. A forced choice is not a choice and you would only end up not enjoying it and merely "doing it cos that guy told me it was right".

 

[No*s]

I think both our sides need healthy doses of tolerance. We live in a society that allows for freedom of expression (most of us), and we should maintain that.

If I rant and rave against someone using exclusivity, then I deny my faith. I am called to be meek and loving (and I fail a lot), and when I rant, rave, and attack, I deny this fundamental teaching. Without the meekness and love, everything I say is simply a set of rules and regulations, and it has no life. I, in essence, void my own beliefs.

If, conversy, an inclusivist does the same thing (this time against the counter idea), he must deny also the tenets of belief that give rise to exclusivity. This, in its turn, means that we can objectively recognize a false faith, because we have this principle. This in its turn denies inclusivity, and its whole faith collapses.

Tolerance is a good thing for both our sides . Rather than simply point fingers, we may always try to understand why each member believes as they do. When we understand that, we can go have a pizza or something. Our behavior here puts all our beliefs on the line, and puts us all at risk of hypocrasy. I am certain I have crossed the line many times.

 

[Master Vigil]

We all want to be special. This shows in lots of aspects of life, not just religion. I personally find that if a person is humble, than that person better reflects their religion. But when they are arrogant, I never want anymore to do with them. I firmly believe that true religion has no title, no book, no laws. This religion is goodness. You may know alot about scripture, or about religious history, but that means absolutely nothing if you don't participate in goodness. A pagan can participate, a jew, christian, wiccan, shaman, taoist, buddhist, etc... I feel leading by example is better than leading by a book, or a big head.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Christianity was designed to "Love people into the Kingdom" and not to bludgeon them into submission.

The intolerance and arrogance displayed by MANY of the Religious Right is as regrettable as it is counter productive. Many who "claim" to be disciples are little more that power hungry hypocrites bent on promoting their "version" of the truth irregardless of the human pain and suffering. They constantly remind us by their actions that they have theirs so they just don't care about those who disagree with them.

However, many people mistake confidence as arrogance. I am fully convinced that what I believe is true. But I am not arrogant enough to not look at other religions at the same time and with an open mind. Yes, I have changed my mind in the past and it is very possible that I will do that again in the future. It's not as important who is right as much as it is to BECOME right.

 

[hoomer]

The point I ws trying to make with this thread is 2 fold...

1. its arrogant to assume only YOU have the truth.....imo

2. When one worships one's dogma/religion/science text book ....INSTEAD of God/reality....then one is lost.....

WOrship God not the religion.....

 

[Circle_One]

However, many people mistake confidence as arrogance. I am fully convinced that what I believe is true. But I am not arrogant enough to not look at other religions at the same time and with an open mind. Yes, I have changed my mind in the past and it is very possible that I will do that again in the future. It's not as important who is right as much as it is to BECOME right.

As am I fully convinced that what I believe is the truth, but that is not to say that it must be the truth for someone else. I am confident enough in my beliefs to proclaim they are true for me, but I would never push them onto others by telling them my way is the only truth and if they don't follow my way they are wrong and will pay dearly in the end.

 

[SoulTYPE]

but I would never push them onto others by telling them my way is the only truth and if they don't follow my way they are wrong and will pay dearly in the end.

Even if you did, it wouldn't go far against those dudes.

 

[No*s]

As am I fully convinced that what I believe is the truth, but that is not to say that it must be the truth for someone else. I am confident enough in my beliefs to proclaim they are true for me, but I would never push them onto others by telling them my way is the only truth and if they don't follow my way they are wrong and will pay dearly in the end.

However, one can still be tolerant, even when if we disagree. I can say that I believe in absolute religious truth, and I do. That doesn't cause me to force your conversion or to attempt to do so at every turn. I can respect your views and live in a tolerant society.

Simply by asserting we believe in one truth doesn't mean that we are pushing beliefs on you, and it can be practiced in the opposite direction as well. If that were so, I could easily cry foul every time someone tried to tell me that what is spiritually true for me was for me, but it didn't follow for other people. To conform, I must change these.