ecco
Veteran Member
You are finally catching on.
It was you, not me, who tried to conflate evolution with abiogenesis. You should know that you are not the first Biblical Literalist who has tried the well worn strawman.
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Arkansas inflicts child abuse on its school children
- Thread starter Altfish
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You are finally catching on.
It was you, not me, who tried to conflate evolution with abiogenesis. You should know that you are not the first Biblical Literalist who has tried the well worn strawman.
I see science as informing morality, but not determining it. As such, it informs my actions in daily life, for example, helping me to be a more informed patient at the doctor. But it does not have a significant effect on how my wife and I interact.
In terms of my view of the world, I realize we are not the center of the universe, not the most powerful things in it, and that we are a relatively recent addition to this planet. I understand the kinship we have with other living things on this planet and our similarities and differences with other species.
ElishaElijah
Return
There’s a great resource, Interpreting the Scriptures by Kevin Conner that explains a lot of things and clears up the misconceptions about the literal method of biblical interpretation. Here is a snap shot.
ecco
Veteran Member
What do "real life testimonies" have to do with this thread? Nothing.
Just because stories are uplifting, doesn't make them true.
On the other hand, do you excuse your God when He does things that are not uplifting at all? Example:
Numbers 31
13And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp. 14And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. 15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? 16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. 17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
13And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp. 14And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. 15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? 16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. 17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Your God ordered every woman killed.
-Except-
All the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him (the young virgin girls). These young girls your God ordered to be distributed to the victorious soldiers to be done with was they pleased. In other words, raped and enslaved.
ElishaElijah
Return
Lol, all good brother thanks for hanging in till I got it.
ecco
Veteran Member
It doesn't. It isn't supposed to. Science is about learning the truth of nature. Don't you know this?
Science investigates. Where there were faith healing preachers who allegedly could restore health and sight, they investigated and found fraud. Perhaps you need to read up on people like Peter Popoff and John of God. Perhaps you need to read up on things like the phony crying madonnas.
All these had what you call "testimonies". All these presented anecdotal evidence. All of these are frauds. Don't you know things like that?
ElishaElijah
Return
I see things a lot different than you, I’m limited in that I don’t have all the information or desire to judge God or make assumptions like you do. Of course those are difficult to understand but they are there. If you believe the people were innocent that received the punishment then you’re wrong about that. Even says right there here are those who caused the trespass. I’m going to trust God’s judgement on that, yes. You will have the opportunity to confront God yourself, get some things straightened out.
ElishaElijah
Return
No that’s not what I’m saying about testimonies and fraudsters, I’ve seen plenty of fakes, also seen and experienced the legitimate. All aren’t frauds although in the last days the Bible says that because people reject the truth they will believe the lie.
ElishaElijah
Return
Another thing is God demonstrated His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. So knowing and receiving the blessings, promises and inheritance from Him dispels any notion He is evil, wrong or has any of that.It’s Satan that steals, kills, destroys and is the father of lies.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You may not agree, but I can show that to be the case. Basic science refutes creationism. Unfortunately if a person refuses to discuss the basics they can never learn why.
In answer to your question the fact that we are evolved beings has very little effect on my daily life. Morality can come from reason. Some people have trouble reasoning rationally so they need an outside source for their morals. The problem is that if the source is flawed so are their morals. Secular morals beat religious ones since when an error occurs we can correct that error in secular morality. If one bases one's morality on a flawed source it is much harder to correct it.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You have only mentioned one fraud that I know of. I know of another. There have been countless fakes and frauds used to support Christianity. Most "relics" are fakes. Do they disprove Christianity?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
This is just poor theology and is a mere belief. No Christian can come up with a logical explanation of why Jesus had to die. In fact the need for him to die is based upon self contradicting beliefs. Supposedly we have the sin of Adam, but elsewhere in the Bible one can quote where it says that the sins of the father are not the sins of the son. If God is all of the omni's why couldn't he just forgive everyone without all of the rigmarole?
ElishaElijah
Return
You’ll have to find the answers to your questions, the answers are there in Scripture. I found conversations with you to be fruitless and a waste of time.
Even in the Christian story, Christ was *at most* inconvenienced for a few days. But, being God, knew he could not *actually* die. This is an example of God setting up an impossible bargain, deciding to change his mind, doing a stage act 'sacrificing' himself, and then holding people to blame if they don't believe this whole story.
Anyway, that's how I see that story.
ElishaElijah
Return
Don’t understand that thinking, maybe try it and see for yourself if it was just an inconvenience for a couple days. Maybe just the whipping part, let alone being crucified, that looked like more than an inconvenience.
If Jesus was God, then he *knew* it was temporary and he was not really going to die.
Sure, it was painful. But it wasn't really a *sacrifice* since he knew it was temporary and would be over in three days.
Let's compare that to some people who have literally starved themselves to death for a cause. Or those who have undergone months of torture for one. And those people didn't have the advantage of knowing they would be OK at the end of the torture.
Sorry, this is small peas compared to what others have done. It is a stage act and very little more from what I can see. It is compounded by the simple fact that God *could* have just 'saved' everyone without the performance.
At least, that's how I see it.
Again, I don't believe the story. But even *as a story* it has flaws.
ElishaElijah
Return
It all makes sense to me and I understand it. I’m convinced it wouldn’t have mattered how God redeemed man, someone would have had a problem with it.
““But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions, and saying: ‘We played the flute for you, And you did not dance; We mourned to you, And you did not lament.’ For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her children.””
Matthew 11:16-19 NKJV
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The Bible only leads to confirmation bias at best. It is the claim in this discussion, it is not the evidence.
How would you test the Bible? A proper test is based on the ability to fail. One that merely supports is not nearly as credible.
ElishaElijah
Return
How to test the Bible...1 Trust what God says and live according to His Word and when you die you receive the reward He promised.
2. Reject what He said, live according to what you think is best, when you die, receive your reward for that.
Either way that’s when everyone finds out the Truth for sure and no more debates or questions about it. I made my decision, you made yours so not sure the problem.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That test does not really work. You see one could test and "confirm" Islam, Hindu, just about any religion with that method. It really does not tell you anything. A proper test has a legitimate chance for failure. With your test the failure is often blamed on the person that did the testing instead of the source.
Can you think of a proper test for your beliefs? One that would not support the beliefs of others if they ran a similar test.