Arguments in favor of IAW (Israel Apartheid Week)?

[Godobeyer]

I have comment about this MR icehorse

While I agree the U.S. foreign policy is often errant, I don't think it's useful to whitewash it so simplistically. Sometimes we "do good" just for the sake of doing good. Are we often motivated by oil? Of course. But not always. Further, I think we're often doing our best to promote stability. In other words, even if our initiatives are often ham-handed and poorly conceived, sometimes our hearts are in the right place.

I also agree that politicians and the media are frequently engaged in distracting us from the most important issues of the day.

I do agree too

But, Hussein had committed acts of genocide, and he had used WMDs, and he was most certainly looking for more, even though he didn't have any when the US / UN coalition attacked. Further, Hussein was keeping a lid on Iraq using strongman tactics. Such an approach would have exploded at some point. It's plausible to argue that the longer the world waited the depose Hussein, the worse the situation would have become. And we should also notice that none of the other governments in the region were addressing this unstable and volatile situation.

believe me i though you talk about Obama (Hussein) , damn me

I do agree Sadam had some crimes

None of this is to say that Bush and company aren't war criminals - I suspect they are. From my perspective the world needed to intervene in Iraq, and it's too bad the intervention was led by such arrogant, short-sighted, incompetent leaders.

I do agree too

the funny "sad" truth, is Bush killed Iraqis more than Sadam !!!!

 

[columbus]

I will do my best too , to explain any point you want .
I admire your way of chat ,and honesty


I just wonder if All the Americans knows/agree about this opinion !!!
I mean the majority agree with you ?



1 stone 3 birds , protect Israel,gain/protect the oil sources,and sell weapons US companies .



Salam

Hello again.
Your English is far superior to my second language, but I'm having trouble following you. It would help me understand you better if you wrote shorter posts, write several if you want. I also post from a small mobile, so I can't see what you wrote while I am responding. I want to keep conversing with you, please help me out.

Yes all Americans know about this. The statistics are easily available and the media discussion about a candidates religion and it's affects on election outcomes is huge.

More than 3 birds I'm sure. But those are three big ones.

Are you possibly confusing Michael Jackson for Martin Luther King Jr? They both died, but MJ was a pop performer, MLKj was a moral pioneer who was murdered under suspicious circumstances.

Tom

 

[columbus]

the funny "sad" truth, is Bush killed Iraqis more than Sadam !!!!

This is not true. From suppressing the Shia after Kuwait to the war on Iran, more Iraqis died because of Saddam Hussein's policies than Bush's. And most of the Iraqis who died after the US invaded Iraq were killed by Muslims.

Tom

 

[Godobeyer]

Hello again.
Your English is far superior to my second language, but I'm having trouble following you. It would help me understand you better if you wrote shorter posts, write several if you want. I also post from a small mobile, so I can't see what you wrote while I am responding. I want to keep conversing with you, please help me out.

Hello to you too
you gotta it .

Yes all Americans know about this. The statistics are easily available and the media discussion about a candidates religion and it's affects on election outcomes is huge.

I met many Americans here,they denied that America is religious country .they said it's secular .

I guess you and them both true .


1-why , because USA had high freedom of religions, and speech .

2- and because If the President did not submit to AIPAC , He would not become President .

More than 3 birds I'm sure. But those are three big ones.

Nice that you agree with me

Are you possibly confusing Michael Jackson for Martin Luther King Jr? They both died, but MJ was a pop performer, MLKj was a moral pioneer who was murdered under suspicious circumstances.

No i am talking about Micheal Jackson the pop star .
before his death there was uncertain news , he converted to Islam or maybe will convert to Islam

so some muslims (as i do) had link his death to his decision to his ability to convert to Islam .

only God knows the truth ,Mr tom

This is not true. From suppressing the Shia after Kuwait to the war on Iran, more Iraqis died because of Saddam Hussein's policies than Bush's. And most of the Iraqis who died after the US invaded Iraq were killed by Muslims.

I hope you will not provoked by this :

USA supported Iraqi army against Iran. (Iran vs Iraq war )

maybe you ignored about Iraq/USA confict
it's start in 1991 when Iraq invaded Kuwait .

so USA attacked Iraq to free Kuwait, the Planes hitted Baghdad , many civilians killed .

-then USA aircrafts aimed the retreat Iraqi army from Kuwait (search about the valley of Death Iraq)

-then a sanction for 1991-2003 ,food for oil program , the Iraqi statics : 1 million baby death cause of sanction ,and polution of weapons .

-then USA the invaded of Iraq for oil and change the regime ,the civil war between Sunis and Shias get more and more , just after the invade , so it's the consequence of USA invades .

Syria and Libya get almost the same problem , so intermediation of the west in Muslims world,did not help instead of that it's bring civil wars and courage/creat terrorism !!!

Without forget the rule of Saudi Arabia and kings of oil in side(Sunni) in other side Iran (shia) , so they had big responsibilty .

and lead us to the Muslims sholars whom encourage the violence .

the conclusion :
the blame on all .

 

[Godobeyer]

I guess ,there is some intersting posts in the other thread

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...6-fatah-hamas-pact-good-bad-netanyahu-12.html

 

[columbus]

Hey there.

Yes we are both right. We are talking about different things. Legally your religion has nothing to do with running for any office. At the local level, where voters often know the candidate, it isn't always a big deal. At higher levels what people say about you and will they fund your campaign is very different.


I believe you are mistaken about MJ. He had a history of prescription drug abuse. Then he took an overdose. Becoming Muslim wouldn't have mattered to many people. So I don't know for sure, but I very much doubt that he was killed deliberately by anyone.

" Blame everyone" isn't too far off. There is plenty of blame to spread around.
But I can't blame the US for everything that you blame it for. Iraq invaded Iran and Kuwait. Virtually all the blame for that and the outcome is the responsibility of Hussein and his supporters. That includes the sanctions. I also agree that the badly planned invasion of Iraq set the stage for the civil war that followed. But it remains Iraqis killing Iraqis.

Many Muslims want to blame the US for everything bad that happens when that just isn't true. I believe many Muslim governments lie to their people to avoid blame for the condition of the people.

Tom

 

[Godobeyer]

Hey there.

Yes we are both right. We are talking about different things. Legally your religion has nothing to do with running for any office. At the local level, where voters often know the candidate, it isn't always a big deal. At higher levels what people say about you and will they fund your campaign is very different.


I believe you are mistaken about MJ. He had a history of prescription drug abuse. Then he took an overdose.Becoming Muslim wouldn't have mattered to many people. So I don't know for sure, but I very much doubt that he was killed deliberately by anyone.

" Blame everyone" isn't too far off. There is plenty of blame to spread around.
But I can't blame the US for everything that you blame it for. Iraq invaded Iran and Kuwait. Virtually all the blame for that and the outcome is the responsibility of Hussein and his supporters. That includes the sanctions. I also agree that the badly planned invasion of Iraq set the stage for the civil war that followed. But it remains Iraqis killing Iraqis.

Many Muslims want to blame the US for everything bad that happens when that just isn't true. I believe many Muslim governments lie to their people to avoid blame for the condition of the people.

Tom

Hi Tom

For MJ it's just an opinion , there is no serious evidence , inspite that drug, "the wrong treatment...etc" could be taken as an evidence of crime in other cases .

you said "Becoming Muslim wouldn't have mattered to many people."
for my opinion it's mattered for "some people" , especialy whom hate Islam and Muslims, so because he was a one of greatest stars in recent history of USA ,that's my opinion .

USA was not push/courage Iraq to invade Kuwait .

I remember very well , Algerian official opinions

Algeria was disagree with USA invade Iraq .the consequnces ( Civil war , and terrorism)
Algeria was diagree with western (France and NATO ) in Libya , the consequneces (Civil war and terrorism)
Algeria was disagree with western / arabic (Qatar,Saudi Arabia) solution in Syria the consequences ( Civil war and terrorism)

I remember very well during 1991 to 2003 (2001), Algeria called/warned each time for dangerous of terrorites , but unforunetlly no respond "no one listen" !!! .

until 9/11 happened .

edited type mistake

 

[Tali018]

Hi Tom

For MJ it's just an opinion , there is no serious evidence , inspite that drug, "the wrong treatment...etc" could be taken as an evidence of crime in other cases .

you said "Becoming Muslim wouldn't have mattered to many people."
for my opinion it's mattered for "some people" , especialy whom hate Islam and Muslims, so because he was a one of greatest stars in recent history of USA ,that's my opinion .

USA was not push/courage Iraq to invade Kuwait .

I remember very well , Algerian official opinions

Algeria was disagree with USA invade Iraq .the consequnces ( Civil war , and terrorism)
Algeria was diagree with western (France and NATO ) in Libya , the consequneces (Civil war and terrorism)
Algeria was disagree with western arabic (Qatar,Saudi Arabia) solution in Syria the consequences ( Civil war and terrorism)

I remember very well during 1991 to 2003 , Algeria called/warned each time for dangerous of terrorites , but unforunetlly no respond "no one listen" !!! .

until 9/11 happened .

You seem not to know where your own coutry is in relation to the world in any manner. Here's what the outside knows:
Algeria

Here's what you do'nt know. 9/11 was in 2001. Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Libya are all to the EAST of Algeria. I won't even bother with the rest of the trash since ALL your timelines are WRONG.

 

[Godobeyer]

You seem not to know where your own coutry is in relation to the world in any manner. Here's what the outside knows:
Algeria

Here's what you do'nt know. 9/11 was in 2001. Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Libya are all to the EAST of Algeria. I won't even bother with the rest of the trash since ALL your timelines are WRONG.

I don't know !!!

do you know what is the largest country in Africa ?

what i know really , Algeria is not parasite country

EDITED -add

so you used my type mistake !!! against me

 

[columbus]

Hi Tom

For MJ it's just an opinion , there is no serious evidence , inspite that drug, "the wrong treatment...etc" could be taken as an evidence of crime in other cases .

you said "Becoming Muslim wouldn't have mattered to many people."
for my opinion it's mattered for "some people" , especialy whom hate Islam and Muslims, so because he was a one of greatest stars in recent history of USA ,that's my opinion .

USA was not push/courage Iraq to invade Kuwait .

I remember very well , Algerian official opinions

Algeria was disagree with USA invade Iraq .the consequnces ( Civil war , and terrorism)
Algeria was diagree with western (France and NATO ) in Libya , the consequneces (Civil war and terrorism)
Algeria was disagree with western / arabic (Qatar,Saudi Arabia) solution in Syria the consequences ( Civil war and terrorism)

I remember very well during 1991 to 2003 (2001), Algeria called/warned each time for dangerous of terrorites , but unforunetlly no respond "no one listen" !!! .

until 9/11 happened .

edited type mistake

You might be surprised by how many people here would agree with the Algerian government.

In the year before the war I made a point of talking to people from the region. A town nearby has a big university and a large diverse Muslim population. From Iranians forced out by the fall of Shah Pahlavi to wealthy Saudis, Egyptian, Syrian, Palestinian, Iraqi, you name it. Their opinions were also diverse. Three things they agreed on:

Hussein has no military to speak of, much less WMDs

Civil war is far more likely than peaceful democracy.

Iran will be the big winner when Iraq collapses, not the USA. Unless all the USA wants is military bases around oil fields.

They could easily. explain why they believed this and disagreed about everything else. Apparently I knew more about Iraq than President Bush.

About MJ, I still think I know more about the situation than you do. MJ was rich and talented, but he was really a pathetic human being. I can't see Islam appealing to him at all.

Tom

 

[CMike]

I always said :the arab citizens inside Israel facing a racist regime ,i find report:

Plan to transfer Arab-Israelis to new Palestinian state seeks legal approval | World news | theguardian.com

Arab citizens in Israel have full rights.

They are represented in parliament, and some are in the IDF.

The same can not be said regarding how jews are treated in arab countries.

 

[CMike]

this link had good information about suffering of citizens Arabs inside Israel .

I recommand the jews check it too

The Status of Palestinian Citizens in Israel | The Electronic Intifada

That's an arab propaganda site.

Arab countries don't have a free press.

 

[CMike]

I guess ,there is some intersting posts in the other thread

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...6-fatah-hamas-pact-good-bad-netanyahu-12.html

A nice start would be the arab groups recognizing Israel's right to exist which hasn't happened yet.

 

[CMike]

A better question is why does the US give aid to countries and people that hate the US, i.e. the PA, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, etc?

 

[icehorse]

A better question is why does the US give aid to countries and people that hate the US, i.e. the PA, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, etc?

A fine question indeed, and worthy of it's own thread.

_____________
defend net neutrality - "without love in the game, insanity's king"

 

[columbus]

A better question is why does the US give aid to countries and people that hate the US, i.e. the PA, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, etc?

Just the words give me a headache. Is PA a country? Does USA give aid to Egyptians or the Egyptian government?

Tom

 

[Desert Snake]

A fine question indeed, and worthy of it's own thread.

_____________
defend net neutrality - "without love in the game, insanity's king"

Right, that's gonna happen. Do you know how many times I say that? Nevermind.

 

[icehorse]

According to this article, Abbas himself is against the anti-Israel BDS movement that is a big part of the IAW activities from the OP:

Palestinians: BDS Activists Are Troublemakers, Criminals

 

[Godobeyer]

You might be surprised by how many people here would agree with the Algerian government.

Hi again Tom

We (Algeria,Egypt,Saudi Arabia...etc) fought the terrorists,when USA start fought them in seriously after 9/11.

As i told you ,Algeria was "begging" the world to fight seriously the terroristes ,nobody care, until 11/9/2001 happaned !!!!

inspite there is a serious doubt that 9/11 was planned , because CIA known about that , as you know .


I know that many Americans are against invade Iraq ..etc, but i don't know IF they are the Majority, .....in case they are the Majorty , i just weird why USA government did not listen to their own people , if they represent the Majority ?!!!

in this case I doult about AIPAC rule ,becaue the leaders/countries whom against Israel were/are aimed/destroyied .

because the unrest and terrorism continous are in benefice of AIPCA(Israel) , so reason/ cause of parasiting USA continous ....

In the year before the war I made a point of talking to people from the region. A town nearby has a big university and a large diverse Muslim population. From Iranians forced out by the fall of Shah Pahlavi to wealthy Saudis, Egyptian, Syrian, Palestinian, Iraqi, you name it. Their opinions were also diverse. Three things they agreed on:

Hussein has no military to speak of, much less WMDs

Civil war is far more likely than peaceful democracy.

Iran will be the big winner when Iraq collapses, not the USA. Unless all the USA wants is military bases around oil fields.

They could easily. explain why they believed this and disagreed about everything else. Apparently I knew more about Iraq than President Bush.

Accuatly I disagree with them a little bit ,yeah Iran is the big winner for change the regime , NOT collapse Iraq, Israel (AIPAC) is the big winner for change the regime AND collapse Iraq,Syria,Libya...etc

I know that Iranis hates Sadam because his abuse to Shai and the war that happened between Iran and Iraq which supported by the kings of oil and west .

Except some accident against Shia and kurds ,Iraq under Sadam regime was not in civil war and terrorism as much today . daily bombs since 2003 .

Sadam could be blamed for that he think only for him self (Dictator) , and get his people in wars with Iran and Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and the West and abuse the Shia and kurds .

that's the same error that USA could be blamed too ,because USA focus for changing the regime "Sadam" and sources of oil , more help Iraq to build it self and help Iraqi to made peace and democraty .

and the blame too in Saudi Arabia and others (kings of oil) and Iran ,when they agree/support USA to invade Iraq ,then they let the Iraqis alone without help.
and they maybe encourage the civil war indirectly by the weapon and media , there are many TV channels encouraged the hate against Shia and others against Sunna !!!!

About MJ, I still think I know more about the situation than you do. MJ was rich and talented, but he was really a pathetic human being. I can't see Islam appealing to him at all.

I don't know if you watch this before :
Michael Jackson Possibly died a Muslim "jermaine jackson said"


[youtube]rKi3LBhw38U[/youtube]
Michael Jackson Possibly died a Muslim "jermaine jackson said" - YouTube


+

-For Algeria and USA relation , as I know it's deep in history , and USA was the first country which aid Algerians just after the indepenedent (from France)

-USA helped Algeria too much for fighting terrorism.

In other hand Algeria had succeed rule in the accident of American ambassadory in Iran ,as an ,intermediare between USA and Iran in that case .

 

[Godobeyer]

A better question is why does the US give aid to countries and people that hate the US, i.e. the PA, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, etc?

this evil expression to general, BUT if you talking about extremists that other issue .

there is big different between "I hate you " than " I hate/disagree what you did "

If we hate USA , how we watch their movies/series ...etc ? or listen to their musics ?
inspite that we disagree with Obama,kerry , Obama was guest in many Arab countries without problem .

As i know kings of oil helping USA , i heard in the news recently Saudi Arabia stock 700 billions dollars in USA Banks.

I heard in news too ,For Egypt , as I know USA had the almost free pass Suez canal .

Arab citizens in Israel have full rights.

They are represented in parliament, and some are in the IDF.

The same can not be said regarding how jews are treated in arab countries.

ok not very much right.

so why Israel regime did NOT build homes to Arab citizens as it's doing with their citizes jews ?

so Why Israel destruction homes of Arabs in Jersulem and build instead of it homes for Jews .

you said Arabs represented in parliament , how much they had chairs (population= chairs) ?

Is there a Jew put in Jail because he/she abused/killed an Arab israeli citizen ?

Is there protection against Muslim and Christains holly places ?

Why Jew Israelis extrems enter to the Alqsa mosque by the protection of Israeli police ? which is belong to Arabs citizens ?

so why Israeli police did not let the Arab citizens to visit Jewish holly place, Wailling Wall ?

do you think the treatement of Israeli police to Jews is the same to Arabs ?

Why Israel regime allowed/invite to Jews to come Israel, and don't let the Arabs (Refugee Palestinians) ?

is Islam and Islam Holly places is protected by law, in Israel,and it's by law the second major religion in Israel ?

A nice start would be the arab groups recognizing Israel's right to exist which hasn't happened yet.

For my opinion they believed that Israel is racist country and it's created to abuse the Muslims

That's an arab propaganda site.

Arab countries don't have a free press.

that site is the opposite (other) opinion.

Yes, some Arab countries had no free press .

I am Algerian so i am talking about Algeria,
We have free press, and Internet had NO filter .

so I can access what i want and say what i want , because i don't affraid that my phone or Internet are under security (spied).
maybe you hesitate to access to some sites, or write some expressions , but i am have no fear .(except breaking the rules of this forums) .

So IF you challenged me , maybe you find your self in BIG trouble , because just a FAKE/testing expressions or just check some sites,or download some videos , in that moment the police knock your door .


Accuatly I posted my 100% opinions , so i have 100% freedom of speech in RF.

btw , jewish Lobby convince some European countries leaders to made law punish /limite the opinion .
In France (i don't know about others european countries) if someone deny Holocuat he/she will paid tax for that .

edited