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Arguments in favor of IAW (Israel Apartheid Week)?

Discussion in 'Middle Eastern Politics' started by icehorse, May 16, 2014.

  1. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    This series of events has been going on for a decade now. It's held on university and college campuses all over the world.

    I can't find any plausible arguments to support this idea. Can anyone defend why accusing Israel of apartheid practices is an honest accusation?

    Specifically, it seems to me that any plausible argument would have to consider the bigger context, and not isolated instances.
     
  2. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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  3. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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  4. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    This is an interesting article. But it raises subtle points that have to be considered carefully. Notice that in the first two paragraphs, two important points are made:

    - It implies a new Palestinian State
    - It says that the transfers would happen only for those Palestinians who consent.

    How is that apartheid?

    _____________
    defend net neutrality - "without love in the game, insanity's king"
     
  5. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    Another interesting article. This brings up the same point we discussed in a related thread... how far back should we go? How broadly should we look at the situation?

    Shouldn't we say that the fact that Hamas and Fatah are committed to the destruction of Israel needs to be factored into this situation? Does the word "apartheid" apply when one state is at war with another?
     
  6. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    Israel is not apartheid.

    Describing the problems in that part of the world is to minimize the apartheid of SA and USA.



    I still dislike giving real estate out of guilt. Israel could be a suburb of NYC.

    Zionists want control over a particular piece of real estate. They will kill and die for it.

    Too bad, for the entire human family, that they want that property so badly. Walls, white phosphorus, nuclear weapons, bollocks the UN, .....


    I just wish I could stop subsidizing Zionists. But Obama won't cut them off, because he needs the support of the AIPAC. So my tax dollars keep supporting Zionists.


    ****** me off hugely.

    Tom
     
  7. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    columbus,

    Really interesting perspective.

    Let's imagine that the U.S. and Canada carved out a big beautiful chunk of land - much bigger than Israel (a part of BC and Washington State let's say) - and gave it to the Israelis. Next let's say the Israelis agreed and moved out of Israel.

    Would the world be better off or not?

    - Does Israel really give the West a stabilizing foothold in the ME?
    - Would the Arab world get more or less violent if the Jews left?
    - What would happen to the Palestinians - really?

    (Off topic, but what's the apartheid in the USA?)

    _____________
    defend net neutrality - "without love in the game, insanity's king"
     
  8. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    Hi Icehorse

    let me make clear up :
    Arab-israeli : are arabs whom had the Israeli nationality .
    I have these couple of questions to find out the truth by yourself :
    who plan the transfer ?
    why ?

    so that's why they want us (from the Arabs and Muslims) to admit " Israel is jewish".

    for second point "the transfers would happen only for those Palestinians who consent" that wish, happened only in the dreams , it's seems you are very good man, brother .

    do you still want know how is that apartheid ?

    -link kerry warning Israel will become apartheid

    for my opinion it's from the begining racist until now .

    the zionists murdered Isac Rabin (ex-PM) because he made a peace with Arafat .

    btw , just before few days , Israeli police killed two protestors Arabs in WB .

    and before months their was an "accident" Israeli killed a Jew , he though he is Arabic.


    I have a comment about this
    maybe you would not believe this :
    honeslly I believe 50% of voilence and maybe the main reason , and i am almost sure that most of the Muslims agree on this ;
    Why the Muslims get voilence with each other or the others , it's because they watching the abuse of the Israelis against the Palestinians for more than 62 years .

    I remember the speech of Bin Laden (ex-boss of the terrorists) in 2001, he said , "he hitted USA because it's suppport Israel ...etc ."

    for my opinion the WORLD include the Arab world ,get less violent if the Jews Abuse/Racist to Arabs left .
     
  9. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    I just want to comment about this :)

    This is very very interesting comment , Why Obama needs the support of AIPAC ? is not elected by his USA citizens enough to do his job ?

    let's suppose next president decide to remove "the tax dollars that supporting zionists", he could be the President of USA ?

    So Obama need the support of AIPAC ,and AIPAC need your tax dollars support !!!
    as i know the zionists are not the Majority population in USA .
     
  10. Knight of Albion

    Knight of Albion Well-Known Member

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    This campaign smacks of anti-Semitism to me.

    Is there a 'Chinese out of Tibet' week? Or an 'Arabs stop persecuting Christians' week? Or any other sort of 'protest week'?

    If you know your history you'll understand that the Israelis ARE in their natural homeland. They were enslaved, driven out and scattered to the wind by the Romans.

    After all they have suffered as a people, not just the Holocaust but the countless pogroms and centuries of bigoted, persecution by Muslim and Christian alike, they thoroughly deserve nationhood.

    From what I've seen and heard most Israelis want nothing more than to resolve the issue and to live in peace, but it takes two ...
     
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  11. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    You might be surprised by how many Zionists there are here. Many fundamentalist Christians believe that a triumphant Israel is necessary for Jesus second coming. There are probably more Zionists in Texas than Jews in the whole world.

    Then there is the sharply divided electorate. Keep in mind millions of these people were convinced that Obama is a Muslim from Kenya. If the Jewish lobby targeted a candidate for defeat they can turn out millions of votes, many that otherwise wouldn't be cast. Those of us who are better informed already vote. With major elections regularly decided by less than 4%, it matters a great deal.

    So AIPAC wields enormous power.

    Tom
     
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  12. Tali018

    Tali018 Member

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    The money that goes to Israel is not a subsidy. It is the US's part of the Treaty Jimmy Carter made between Israel & Egypt. The US pays each of them with a debit card that must be used in the US. In exchange for the money sent the US gets priority access to the Suez Canal in Egypt and a Listening Station in Israel. Thus Obama can do nothing except for signing the checks that go to Israel, Egypt and Jordan OR the US would be in violation of the Treaties the US created.
     
  13. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    yes ,this a big suprise,my friend .

    I appreciate your honesty and clear :

    so USA had religious (Jewish,Protest ) in extren religious agenda , who want to be USA president should pass through Zionism scanner (hidden Veto).

    so when the americans whom said to me here in RF: USA are not religious country USA is "secular", they are/were absolutly wrong.

    so the democraty in USA in the serve of religion agendas (Jewhish lobby) , and religion controlling the democraty .

    so theory of murder Micheal Jackson (because MJ learned about Islam,to convert), and kennedy by zionists,could be right .

    and theory of USA invaded Iraq for Israel is correct .

    and theory of USA sanction Iran ( nuclear is lie) ,because Iran against zionism is correct .

    and about Israel-Palestine conflict :
    We can say USA is NOT neutral intermediate in the peace between Palestinians and Israelis !!!
     
  14. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    I just want add a comment about this :

    there is interesting points to tell here , maybe i will creat new thread about them:

    We the Muslims believe in Jesus (pbuh) will come , so where is the problem ?
    and from where "the fundamentalist Christians" comes this insiparation that Jesus (pbuh) will come to Jews again (Israel) ? Bible or just opinions ?

    First of all ,Jesus (pbuh) he will comes for Jews or Christians or both of them ?

    As i we believe (Christians and Muslims) Jesus (pbuh) will comes in the end of this life , so why they want to end this life ?


    so the prize/sacrifice of the coming of Jesus (pbuh) is the innocents Muslims .

    did Jesus/Messiah (pbuh) accept that souls that killed or suffured for/because they want his second/first (for jews) coming ?
     
  15. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    Well I for one, don't think we should be basing policy on the "end of days".
     
  16. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    I just post an opinion , maybe it's correct , it's maybe wrong

    it's my simple idea ,Jesus (pbuh) comes in the end of this life , so why the zionists want him comes ?

    I just wonder why we the muslims don't care so much (as the zionsits) about it's second/first coming of Jesus (pbuh)/Messiah !!!

    I think ,it's because we believe in God send his correct message , and we deal with that as completed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) by God , so we believe Jesus (pbuh) will not comes with new teaching .
     
  17. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    I'll do my best, although I may be misunderstanding some of what you posted.

    The religious right wields enormous power here in the US. But that isn't the only reason for support of Israel. It very difficult to get elected to high office without the proper religious credentials. But neither mj or Kennedy's death had anything to with religion.

    There are lots of reasons for US support of Israel. For one thing, it's hugely profitable for some powerful concerns. Those billions of dollars the taxpayers spend aren't supplying irrigation equipment or healthcare. They are buying the weapons US companies produce at very high profit. Then there is the military advantage of having a beach within tank driving distance of the oil fields.
    Which is the real reason we invaded Iraq. Little to do with Israel, US interests wanted that oil flowing and to counter the growing regional power of Iran. The US people would never have supported that, so the government made up a lot of crap about democracy and WMDs and linked Hussein to Al Queda.

    I do believe Iran is developing nuclear weapons. That's what I would do if I were them. The US all but declared war on them, North Korea, and Iraq. NK has nukes, however crude, and they're still there. Iraq couldn't defend against a determined group of Girl Scouts. We smashed them. I believe the Iranian leaders are quite smart enough to learn the lesson.
    I believe that US policy is primarily driven by financial interests. The Christian Zionists are "useful idiots".

    No, the US is not a neutral intermediary in much of anything.

    I sound UnAmerican when I'm not. There are a lot of great things about this country of mine. But mid east foreign policy is not one of them. Death and destruction are just too profitable for too many powerful people.

    And I do believe that the human race is headed for cataclysmic war and US policy is the main reason it won't be prevented. Voters are distracted by health care and gay marriages instead of focusing on what is important.

    Tom
     
  18. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    columbus,

    While I agree the U.S. foreign policy is often errant, I don't think it's useful to whitewash it so simplistically. Sometimes we "do good" just for the sake of doing good. Are we often motivated by oil? Of course. But not always. Further, I think we're often doing our best to promote stability. In other words, even if our initiatives are often ham-handed and poorly conceived, sometimes our hearts are in the right place.

    I also agree that politicians and the media are frequently engaged in distracting us from the most important issues of the day.

    But, Hussein had committed acts of genocide, and he had used WMDs, and he was most certainly looking for more, even though he didn't have any when the US / UN coalition attacked. Further, Hussein was keeping a lid on Iraq using strongman tactics. Such an approach would have exploded at some point. It's plausible to argue that the longer the world waited the depose Hussein, the worse the situation would have become. And we should also notice that none of the other governments in the region were addressing this unstable and volatile situation.

    None of this is to say that Bush and company aren't war criminals - I suspect they are. From my perspective the world needed to intervene in Iraq, and it's too bad the intervention was led by such arrogant, short-sighted, incompetent leaders.

    _____________
    defend net neutrality - "without love in the game, insanity's king"
     
  19. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    I will do my best too , to explain any point you want .
    I admire your way of chat ,and honesty :)





    I just wonder if All the Americans knows/agree about this opinion !!!
    I mean the majority agree with you ?

    is not rare (among all the countries) that USA president should
    concerne about other country , and if he does not he could not become a president !!!

    so USA democraty is relating with Isreal.

    -if they could moved USA army to invade Iraq ?why they could not eliminat MJ and Kennedy ?

    so that's true USA invaded Iraq for Israel ,oil , and for weapons US companies ..etc
    For my opinion USA aimed Iraq and aiming Iran , for using kings of oil (Arabic countries in persion gulf) .

    1 stone 3 birds , protect Israel,gain/protect the oil sources,and sell weapons US companies .

    I could suspect Iran if Iran reject the investigation, or,surveillance cooperation with the West .

    and there is a blame/suspect on CIA , when in 2001 AlQaeda group let them intern to USA, then CIA let them trained of how pilote the airplane (in airplane school in USA) ,
    the question is :
    so Why the CIA stay just obeserver/watch them !!! instead of catch them ?
    i mean why them let them go forward to do that crime ?

    the answser : the zionists need that accident (support Israel,invade Iraq,the Weapons US companies sold to USA goverment by taxpayers ,made the west hate Islam and Muslims, the Muslims hate the West too )

    I believe Iran is not developping nuclear weapons , I believe they don't need it, when they could collapses the world economy .
    so it's suppose not the zionists of Israel, put whole the blame on the Palestinians !!!


    maybe you will agree with me one this , USA citizens get fooled/used for 62 years .

    Why ?

    I believe IF USA focus to establish justice peace between Israeli and Palestinians , instead of support Israel power and do wars for instead of it !!!!

    war in Iraq, indirect wars in Syria,Libya .

    so USA DID NOT lost billions of dollars and thousand of lives and will stay continous lost , if USA establish peace in Middle East in the first place .

    I did not understand your point here , can you explain it please ?


    for your opinion what important things than health care,gay marriages ?


    for my opinion, zionists (AIPAC) keep controlling/using USA for the benefice of Israel (as parasite country).

    Salam
     
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