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Are you vaccinated?

Vaccinated?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 75.5%
  • No

    Votes: 12 24.5%

  • Total voters
    49

Unfettered

A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
@Unfettered ~ I asked in post #89 and was ignored, so I'll ask again.

When you decided you were not getting vaccinated, was there any consideration for the well-being of others in your decision?
Sorry I missed the post.

Was there any social consideration given to my decision? Not really. Maybe secondarily. Ultimately, if I don't judge a substance suitable for injection into my body (I didn't in this case), it's not going into my body. After that, perhaps I would have taken the shot if I had judged it to constitute no risk to me but significant benefit to others, but that wasn't the case.
 

Unfettered

A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
Some are stingy with their posts.
Well, no one can accuse you of hoarding your thoughts. You've made more posts than anyone else by well over double. You've averaged over 47 posts a day... every day... since joining. That's... a lot.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Well, no one can accuse you of hoarding your thoughts. You've made more posts than anyone else by well over double. You've averaged over 47 posts a day... every day... since joining. That's... a lot.
Oh, I hold back.
Cruel thoughts.
Vicious comebacks.
Rules, ya know.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Sorry I missed the post.

Was there any social consideration given to my decision? Not really. Maybe secondarily. Ultimately, if I don't judge a substance suitable for injection into my body (I didn't in this case), it's not going into my body. After that, perhaps I would have taken the shot if I had judged it to constitute no risk to me but significant benefit to others, but that wasn't the case.
How is the COVID virus more suitable than the vaccine? Is it the method of transmission? Needle vs. inhaling?

How did you judge it given the lack of evidence of the injection being harmful and the overwhelming evidence that the virus was deadly?

Personally, I decided that I would likely survive the virus, but elected to get the vaccination anyway because I didn't want to risk the lives of others who were more vulnerable. I examined the evidence and determined that there was minimal risk to me in getting the vaccination but a much greater risk that my transmitting the virus to another with the possibility of killing them had I contracted the virus. Even had the risk to me been greater, I probably would have been vaccinated to protect others.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
How is the COVID virus more suitable than the vaccine? Is it the method of transmission? Needle vs. inhaling?

How did you judge it given the lack of evidence of the injection being harmful and the overwhelming evidence that the virus was deadly?

Personally, I decided that I would likely survive the virus, but elected to get the vaccination anyway because I didn't want to risk the lives of others who were more vulnerable. I examined the evidence and determined that there was minimal risk to me in getting the vaccination but a much greater risk that my transmitting the virus to another with the possibility of killing them had I contracted the virus. Even had the risk to me been greater, I probably would have been vaccinated to protect others.
I called this post a "winner" on the basis the highlighted question.
 

Unfettered

A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
How is the COVID virus more suitable than the vaccine? Is it the method of transmission? Needle vs. inhaling?
I was not in the disease's crosshairs for a bad case, and the shot was experimental, with too many cases of harmful side effects. The risk/benefit calculation clearly pointed to obtaining natural antibodies. So that's what I did.
How did you judge it given the lack of evidence of the injection being harmful and the overwhelming evidence that the virus was deadly?
I'm not sure how you made your decision, but mine was not made with "lack of evidence." From the moment I saw that a pandemic was unfolding and that the powers that be were very serious about it, I switched on research mode and studied what was available. I kept up on emerging medical papers about both the virus and the disease, I watched and listened to doctors both in interviews and v-logs, and to medical personnel who were treating people, both successfully and unsuccessfully. I talked face to face with local doctors, nurses and paramedics. I talked to two morticians, face to face, one of whom was contracted to help process bodies in New York during the first big wave there. I heard him tell first-hand what he saw (and didn't see). I sorted through good and junk science, good and junk reporting, good and junk claims, good and junk opinions, reputable and disreputable professionals and testimony. I read two books, and many peer-reviewed papers, about the 1918 flu pandemic (for theories, causes, precedents, past efforts, successes, failures and context). I read about other pandemics and would-be pandemics, including past SARS events. I collected case and mortality data (I'm a systems developer) right from government websites so I could process and analyze them without all the spin I saw in reporting. I paid attention as claims were made and confirmed (or not) in realtime. I studied up on traditional vaccines, the new vaccines, vaccine history, vaccine makers, vaccine research and development. I learned from the experiences of others, both with the disease and the vaccine; persons both well-acquainted and strangers; family members and friends. I learned from contracting the virus and having the disease myself, and every member of my family, including my wife, who was just shy of eight months pregnant when she got the virus. I learned from the experience of my own 19-years-old son (who is the only member of my immediate family who got the shot (two rounds, Moderna)) who endured 11 weeks of post-vaccine suffering (starting two days after his second shot) that you can't even imagine. He was serving a mission for our church at the time and had to be sent home because 11 weeks after onset, the doctors who saw him—who wouldn't even consider vaccine injury—could neither diagnose what was wrong or effectively treat him.

I could go on. I was a busy beaver. Were my wife to post here, you could hear straight from her that, for over a year and a half—every night—after everyone went to bed, until one or two AM (sometimes later), I was learning. I have 11 children; I had to know what was going on, and what was truth and what was falsehood.

Not one decision I've made that has anything to do with SARS-COV-2 or COVID-19 has been made in ignorance or on the basis of lack of evidence. Where the answer to a specific question was not yet available, I was aware of what was available.

So when I say that my choice was informed, it was. How others made their decision; for that I cannot account.
Personally, I decided that I would likely survive the virus, but elected to get the vaccination anyway because I didn't want to risk the lives of others who were more vulnerable. I examined the evidence and determined that there was minimal risk to me in getting the vaccination but a much greater risk that my transmitting the virus to another with the possibility of killing them had I contracted the virus. Even had the risk to me been greater, I probably would have been vaccinated to protect others.
Seems like you gave things good thought; that's commendable.
 
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Unfettered

A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
People, that's plural. How many people did you really know who had the vaccine, and then subsequently (more than 2 weeks later) caught COVID and died from it?
I personally and really knew three—one family member and two friends (one in 60s, the other two were older and not in good health)—and knew of others through friends. And I had a good friend about five years younger than me who just about died after getting the vaccine. Got it on a Friday, was on the verge of death Sunday morning, oxygen sat below 80 and dropping, and lungs full of fluid. They weren't even going to put him on the life flight (their policy is not to fly anyone whom the docs say probably won't make it; we live in rural USA, a 2+ hour drive from metro hospitals). How he survived is a story! Ended up 5 weeks in a medically induced coma; had to learn how to walk again, etc. That case wasn't clean, though. He had an active case of COVID when he got the shot—that's a big no-no. But he got the shot because he was having a bad case and was afraid (obesity and impaired vascular/lung function going in were likely contributing factors), and thought the vaccine might help. If he'd have committed earlier, perhaps it would have. We'll never know at this point.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
LOL, right. I do pretty well there. I used to eat a lot of garbage, but I've gotten wiser as I've aged.

Good to read, but the problem is that we don't see then entire process, so we have to rely on the likes of the FDA, CDC, and some other sources. Same is true with meds.

For us, we need to see the overall picture as best we can, and the science is quite clear that vaccines generally work but not perfectly. Now, whether one intends to take them is another matter and largely their choice in most, but not all, cases.
 

Unfettered

A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
Good to read, but the problem is that we don't see then entire process, so we have to rely on the likes of the FDA, CDC and some other sources.
Not as much as most people think. Federal agencies make policy, but they don't oversee what goes on. As long as problems don't manifest in the population, the agencies' attention is not on the food being produced. Either way, I was speaking to the difference between junk food and nutritious food, not to a food producer's compliance with regulatory agencies.
Same is true with meds.
Yes, same with agencies that regulate medications.
For us, we need to see the overall picture as best we can, and the science is quite clear that vaccines generally work but not perfectly. Now, whether one intends to take them is another matter and largely their choice in most, but not all, cases.
Government does bully people into putting things into their bodies, but it is never government's lawful choice.
 
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Unfettered

A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
It doesn't bother you that you might infect someone and that they might die?
I do my best to be responsible. That is enough for me. I neither spend my life seeking out those through whom I become ill so that I can hold them accountable for "infecting me," as if they meant for me to get sick, nor do I go about worrying that I'm going to be the means whereby someone else gets sick. I assume everyone around me is doing the best they can with circumstances they didn't ask for within a framework largely out of their control, and I hope others afford me the same benefit of the doubt.
 
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