Are you Smart enough to go to Heaven????

[Bird123]

I’ve heard it so many times that all a person has to do to go to Heaven is to believe in God or follow some religion’s beliefs. Does mere Belief make something true?



OK, say all the believers make it to Heaven. How long would it take for the first fight to start? Do people really think simply because they have paradise that they won’t be who they really are?



Some say God will change people so they won’t fight. If that were the truth, why didn’t God change them in the first place, then believing would not matter? It doesn’t add up.



As I see it, the answer is simple. In order to be able to exist in a Heavenly state with people, one must be smart enough to Understand and Live what it takes. One must Understand the petty things that would make Heaven not possible.



One cannot hate for any reason. People are different physically, mentally, and personality. Have you learned the Value of these differences instead of hating them?



One cannot control or intimidate others. Have you learned the Value of allowing others to be themselves with total freedom of choice? I think control is a big one. Seems everybody wants to rule the world. Everyone wants others their way.



Being self-centered and selfish could never generate a Heavenly state. In a Heavenly state, there must be love. Have you learned Unconditional Love is the only way? Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. It’s not always easy to value others above all else. Have you learned to do this today?



Have you learned to let go of the petty things like hating, controlling, ruling, selfishness, greed, anger, wrath, blaming, condemning, judging, coercing, intimidating, lying and cheating? Have you learned enough and lived enough to understand one must let these petty things go?



Are you ready for Heaven? How many people are ready? Yes, as I see it, there is a long way to go. On the other hand, given enough time, lessons, and lives, I think we will all make it to Heaven.



So what do you think? It has nothing to do with Beliefs. It’s simple Math!



Are you smart enough to go to Heaven? Maybe not yet, but will be in time.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'm smart enough to point out there is a lot of space in your post that is unnecessary.

 

[YmirGF]

It's bad enough having to play golf with Jesus and God every other Thursday, let alone, spending eternity doting on their insecurities. I have no use, whatsoever, for any heaven.

 

[Debater Slayer]

One cannot hate for any reason. People are different physically, mentally, and personality. Have you learned the Value of these differences instead of hating them?

I'm sure serial killers are different mentally and in terms of personality from most people, but that doesn't mean anyone would be wrong to hate them. In fact, I'd be suspicious of anyone who seemed tolerant toward serial killers.

Some differences are simply not beneficial or acceptable. Idealistic mantras such as "accept differences instead of hating them" don't change that.

One cannot control or intimidate others. Have you learned the Value of allowing others to be themselves with total freedom of choice? I think control is a big one. Seems everybody wants to rule the world. Everyone wants others their way.

Of course we can control and sometimes intimidate others. Imagine if we didn't have the rule of law to keep the irresponsible and harmful types in check--largely through intimidation with penalties.

You're talking like humans are perfect, and your points would hold water if they were. But as things stand, idealism seems to me more naive than conducive to anything desirable.

Being self-centered and selfish could never generate a Heavenly state. In a Heavenly state, there must be love. Have you learned Unconditional Love is the only way? Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. It’s not always easy to value others above all else. Have you learned to do this today?

I think unconditional love can be foolish. If I loved someone and they turned out to be an unrepentant criminal, I'd probably be unable to love them anymore. The only problem with conditional love is if the condition or conditions for it aren't grounded in reason. The fact that it's conditional, however, isn't the issue, as far as I can see.

Have you learned to let go of the petty things like hating, controlling, ruling, selfishness, greed, anger, wrath, blaming, condemning, judging, coercing, intimidating, lying and cheating? Have you learned enough and lived enough to understand one must let these petty things go?

Putting lying and cheating on the same list with situationally reasonable and even sometimes desirable things like judging, ruling, and controlling seems more ideologically driven than it is based on logic or reason.

Are you ready for Heaven? How many people are ready? Yes, as I see it, there is a long way to go. On the other hand, given enough time, lessons, and lives, I think we will all make it to Heaven.



So what do you think? It has nothing to do with Beliefs. It’s simple Math!



Are you smart enough to go to Heaven? Maybe not yet, but will be in time.

I believe in no heaven. In my opinion, the best we can do is try to make this world as desirable to live in as possible by endeavoring to maximize the well-being of conscious creatures. I also believe accepting that reality and humans are flawed is fundamental in order to address the flaws effectively instead of pursuing an unrealistic and overly idealistic goal such as completely forgoing certain emotions and actions (like some of the ones you listed).

 

[whirlingmerc]

I’ve heard it so many times that all a person has to do to go to Heaven is to believe in God or follow some religion’s beliefs. Does mere Belief make something true?



OK, say all the believers make it to Heaven. How long would it take for the first fight to start? Do people really think simply because they have paradise that they won’t be who they really are?



Some say God will change people so they won’t fight. If that were the truth, why didn’t God change them in the first place, then believing would not matter? It doesn’t add up.



As I see it, the answer is simple. In order to be able to exist in a Heavenly state with people, one must be smart enough to Understand and Live what it takes. One must Understand the petty things that would make Heaven not possible.



One cannot hate for any reason. People are different physically, mentally, and personality. Have you learned the Value of these differences instead of hating them?



One cannot control or intimidate others. Have you learned the Value of allowing others to be themselves with total freedom of choice? I think control is a big one. Seems everybody wants to rule the world. Everyone wants others their way.



Being self-centered and selfish could never generate a Heavenly state. In a Heavenly state, there must be love. Have you learned Unconditional Love is the only way? Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. It’s not always easy to value others above all else. Have you learned to do this today?



Have you learned to let go of the petty things like hating, controlling, ruling, selfishness, greed, anger, wrath, blaming, condemning, judging, coercing, intimidating, lying and cheating? Have you learned enough and lived enough to understand one must let these petty things go?



Are you ready for Heaven? How many people are ready? Yes, as I see it, there is a long way to go. On the other hand, given enough time, lessons, and lives, I think we will all make it to Heaven.



So what do you think? It has nothing to do with Beliefs. It’s simple Math!



Are you smart enough to go to Heaven? Maybe not yet, but will be in time.

I would not use the word 'smart' I would say knowledge puffs up as the New Testament says

However relationally 'knowing God" is eternal life as John 17:3 says

 

[Bird123]

I'm smart enough to point out there is a lot of space in your post that is unnecessary.

OK. The only thing I question is the one rule. When one reaches a high enough level of intelligence, are any rules really needed? One would already know what not to do. Bad choices would no longer be viable choices.

 

[Bird123]

It's bad enough having to play golf with Jesus and God every other Thursday, let alone, spending eternity doting on their insecurities. I have no use, whatsoever, for any heaven.

It's not a matter of use. It's a matter of intelligence and having learned what are the very best choices to make. When one discovers what the very best choices are, they can't help but find themselves in Heaven through their own creation.

Yes, I'm afraid Golf is not one of my talents either. I seem to have to take twice as many shots as everyone else.

 

[David T]

It's bad enough having to play golf with Jesus and God every other Thursday, let alone, spending eternity doting on their insecurities. I have no use, whatsoever, for any heaven.

And I am pretty sure the writers of the text knew that. Or at least a lot of them. Levitucus numbers deuteronomy maybe not so much. Seems very "science"

 

[Bird123]

I'm sure serial killers are different mentally and in terms of personality from most people, but that doesn't mean anyone would be wrong to hate them. In fact, I'd be suspicious of anyone who seemed tolerant toward serial killers.

Some differences are simply not beneficial or acceptable. Idealistic mantras such as "accept differences instead of hating them" don't change that.




Of course we can control and sometimes intimidate others. Imagine if we didn't have the rule of law to keep the irresponsible and harmful types in check--largely through intimidation with penalties.

You're talking like humans are perfect, and your points would hold water if they were. But as things stand, idealism seems to me more naive than conducive to anything desirable.



I think unconditional love can be foolish. If I loved someone and they turned out to be an unrepentant criminal, I'd probably be unable to love them anymore. The only problem with conditional love is if the condition or conditions for it aren't grounded in reason. The fact that it's conditional, however, isn't the issue, as far as I can see.



Putting lying and cheating on the same list with situationally reasonable and even sometimes desirable things like judging, ruling, and controlling seems more ideologically driven than it is based on logic or reason.



I believe in no heaven. In my opinion, the best we can do is try to make this world as desirable to live in as possible by endeavoring to maximize the well-being of conscious creatures. I also believe accepting that reality and humans are flawed is fundamental in order to address the flaws effectively instead of pursuing an unrealistic and overly idealistic goal such as completely forgoing certain emotions and actions (like some of the ones you listed).

This isn't about emotional. This is about Math.

Society will protect themselves.

Isn't the better choice fixing the serial killer rather than hating them? Does society even try to solve the underlying causes of crime? Crime will continue as an adversity to point the direction for Discovery and Learning until the problem is solved.

If you hate, what returns? Hate generates more hate. You must understand. Unconditional Love does what is Best for the other. It doesn't just give the other what they want. Is it best for the criminal just to lock them up and throw away the key? That might be the emotional thing to do but does little to actually solve the problem.

The price for hate is always too high. Hate just makes everything worse. Can Heaven exist with hate? I don't see how.

 

[Bird123]

I would not use the word 'smart' I would say knowledge puffs up as the New Testament says

However relationally 'knowing God" is eternal life as John 17:3 says

Smart or Intelligent do not puff. It's the Ego that Puffs.

As for knowing God, everyone knows God whether they realize it or not. I don't see God acting different to any of His children simply because they follow Beliefs. As I see it, God will educate all His children regardless of their beliefs. It has never ever been about Believing. It's about Knowing, Learning, and Understanding.

 

[Twilight Hue]

To paraphrase Mark Twain...

"A harp, hymn book , and Halo? Good God have mercy on us all".

 

[YmirGF]

It's not a matter of use. It's a matter of intelligence and having learned what are the very best choices to make. When one discovers what the very best choices are, they can't help but find themselves in Heaven through their own creation.

Yes, I'm afraid Golf is not one of my talents either. I seem to have to take twice as many shots as everyone else.

An interesting perspective, to be sure, and one that simply would never occur to me. Sadly, I am well beyond the need for any kind of heaven/hell scenarios. I've already seen to much to be tempted by those delusions.

 

[Bird123]

An interesting perspective, to be sure, and one that simply would never occur to me. Sadly, I am well beyond the need for any kind of heaven/hell scenarios. I've already seen to much to be tempted by those delusions.

Delusions? Could not this world become closer to a Heaven if people had the knowledge and understanding of what it would take to be there? Like I said before, this is not about beliefs. This is about Math and the choices one can make to create Heaven just through their own choices. Logic dictates that the greater number making Heavenly choices equals a world better for all.

 

[sojourner]

I’ve heard it so many times that all a person has to do to go to Heaven is to believe in God or follow some religion’s beliefs. Does mere Belief make something true?



OK, say all the believers make it to Heaven. How long would it take for the first fight to start? Do people really think simply because they have paradise that they won’t be who they really are?



Some say God will change people so they won’t fight. If that were the truth, why didn’t God change them in the first place, then believing would not matter? It doesn’t add up.



As I see it, the answer is simple. In order to be able to exist in a Heavenly state with people, one must be smart enough to Understand and Live what it takes. One must Understand the petty things that would make Heaven not possible.



One cannot hate for any reason. People are different physically, mentally, and personality. Have you learned the Value of these differences instead of hating them?



One cannot control or intimidate others. Have you learned the Value of allowing others to be themselves with total freedom of choice? I think control is a big one. Seems everybody wants to rule the world. Everyone wants others their way.



Being self-centered and selfish could never generate a Heavenly state. In a Heavenly state, there must be love. Have you learned Unconditional Love is the only way? Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. It’s not always easy to value others above all else. Have you learned to do this today?



Have you learned to let go of the petty things like hating, controlling, ruling, selfishness, greed, anger, wrath, blaming, condemning, judging, coercing, intimidating, lying and cheating? Have you learned enough and lived enough to understand one must let these petty things go?



Are you ready for Heaven? How many people are ready? Yes, as I see it, there is a long way to go. On the other hand, given enough time, lessons, and lives, I think we will all make it to Heaven.



So what do you think? It has nothing to do with Beliefs. It’s simple Math!



Are you smart enough to go to Heaven? Maybe not yet, but will be in time.

I agree with your thesis, but not your theology. It has nothing to do with smarts; it has to do with enlightenment, which is a heart thing, not a head thing.

 

[whirlingmerc]

And I am pretty sure the writers of the text knew that. Or at least a lot of them. Levitucus numbers deuteronomy maybe not so much. Seems very "science"

Since God is infinite there would always be more to discover of Him... so... not boring

 

[YmirGF]

Delusions? Could not this world become closer to a Heaven if people had the knowledge and understanding of what it would take to be there? Like I said before, this is not about beliefs. This is about Math and the choices one can make to create Heaven just through their own choices. Logic dictates that the greater number making Heavenly choices equals a world better for all.

I understand perfectly what you are saying, now, try to translate the way I look at this into your own mental landscapes. I see these ideas as not just delusional, but clearly delusional. With that in mind, helping people to have knowledge and understanding of a delusion would not be particularly helpful - unless that understanding allowed them to move beyond such trivial thinking.

That aside, I do approve of people making clear headed decisions in their lives that improve their experiences and benefit others. If that is your idea, I approve.

 

[David T]

Since God is infinite there would always be more to discover of Him... so... not boring

I had a professor say " when we die we will have an eternity to discover God's eternal creativity".. I liked that it had resonance.

In the next sentence he said "without the resurrection we have nothing" harsh dissonance hit me. I wondered if it didn't literally happen as he was saying would I be the only one left in the classroom? I understand today why that was dissonance because the theology professor understood very little about the text he had a big heart for the text. Like most theologians and church folk.

Art is a difficult topic even artists are baffled by most of the time...... So a mix of truth and confusion is, well normal and the text says, exactly that. The text is not written in a normal fashion it is not written by normal folk. But it is deeply loved by normal folk, Nothing bad about that just normal is all. BTW atheism very normal as well.

 

[Bird123]

I agree with your thesis, but not your theology. It has nothing to do with smarts; it has to do with enlightenment, which is a heart thing, not a head thing.

When that light bulb goes off over your head and you understand, is it really a heart thing? Sure, people are influenced by their hearts, but isn't it Reason that leads??

On the other hand, religions all over the world depend on emotions to gain believers. Any good salesman knows if you get someone feeling strong enough, you can sell them anything once the reason half is no longer leading.

Sure, what would life be without feelings, however, as I see it, everything adds up completely with Math. It's not feelings that make everything work so well. It's math. Further, if you are really really intelligent, like God, even feelings and emotions come down to Math. Yes, indeed, there is a lot to learn and discover.

If one does not lead with Reason, one can get lost is a sea of emotions. It's never fun being lost.

 

[Bird123]

I understand perfectly what you are saying, now, try to translate the way I look at this into your own mental landscapes. I see these ideas as not just delusional, but clearly delusional. With that in mind, helping people to have knowledge and understanding of a delusion would not be particularly helpful - unless that understanding allowed them to move beyond such trivial thinking.

That aside, I do approve of people making clear headed decisions in their lives that improve their experiences and benefit others. If that is your idea, I approve.

Knowledge and Understanding always creates a new view. On the other hand, people have been taught to value Beliefs above all else. Even faced with facts, often many hang onto Beliefs that were held a lifetime simple because they have been recited so much. People see what they want to see rather than what actually exists. Do I see these people as Delusional? Of course not, they lack the knowledge and understanding that wandering away from true reality never leads forward. That is a lesson many choose for themselves.

As I see it, it all adds up completely. It's Math not Beliefs. It's not Delusional. It's absence of the real truth.

Discovery will always take work and the desire to move forward. Perhaps that is why the Hungry student advances the fastest.

 

[Jainarayan]

It's bad enough having to play golf with Jesus and God every other Thursday, let alone, spending eternity doting on their insecurities. I have no use, whatsoever, for any heaven.

And the horrid music! All those harps, hosannas, glory be’s, vapid smiles. Oy! Makes me want to commit a mortal sin.