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Featured Are you closed minded?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by charlie sc, May 7, 2019.

  1. charlie sc

    charlie sc Well-Known Member

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    How can a question have certainty? Questions aren't declarations of fact or claims.
     
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  2. Unguru

    Unguru I am a Sikh nice to meet you

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    Are you certain of this? How would you provide evidence for this to show that you're correct? Does this represent your Atheism?
     
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  3. charlie sc

    charlie sc Well-Known Member

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    Questions are atheistic in nature? You know what, that actually makes sense... lol

    I guess you shouldn't ask questions unless you want to turn into an atheist!
     
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  4. charlie sc

    charlie sc Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy your posts too.
     
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  5. Unguru

    Unguru I am a Sikh nice to meet you

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    Why are you deflecting? Is the question that hard to answer? or you're just to scared to answer it?
     
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  6. charlie sc

    charlie sc Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you want me to do. Questions are usually designed to gather more information or to clarify information. Since you are concerned over, ummm, the (un)certainty of questions, why don't you explain whatever theory you have?
     
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  7. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    I'm "as certain as can be" that certain specific gods don't exist - or at the very least, the way they are prortrayed an not possibly be correct, as it contradicts observable reality. And when observable reality contradicts faith based beliefs - it's never observable reality that is incorrect.


    The more generic the god being proposed, the less certain I am.


    At no point am I ever 100% certain of anything.
     
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  8. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    ???
     
  9. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    1. there is no such thing in science as a "law of cause and effect", contrary to what apologist would like you to believe

    2. even if there were, it would be a law of physics. Physics, as it applies WITHIN the space time continuum. You can't use physics that apply IN the universe and then pretend they also apply "outside" of it (whatever that meanst).

    3. science is about predictability, falsifiability and demonstration through evidence. So just asserting that your god caused the universe, without demonstrating it, without it having any kind of testable prediction, without that assertion being falsifiable.... is the very opposite of science.

    Closed/open mindedness is about how prepared you are to change your views in light of new information.
    So let's test that...

    I just informed you about how fallacious your statements were.
    What will you do with that information?
     
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  10. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    But I really do know no pretending whatsoever.

    I suppose that labels me here as ‘super closed minded’ but not to worry as I would prefer this ‘super closed mindedness’ any day to the ‘open mindedness’ of an atheists ‘doubt’. Lol.
     
  11. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Euh......

    "reasonable" would be: according to standards of reason.

    Here, you seem to be saying that the standards of reason don't apply to "faith"....
    That would make faith unreasonable...
     
  12. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    To me, that just means that humans have a tendency of superstitious beliefs and infusing "agency" in seemingly random events.
     
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  13. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Come to think of it.... I think I need to disagree with your basic premise here.

    "absolute certainty" doesn't necessarily equal closed mindedness imo.

    Closed/open mindedness, talks about someone's ability or capacity of being able and willing to change his/her mind on something.

    I don't see how being "absolutely certain" about something, would rule that out.
    I could be absolutely certain to have put my keys on my desk.
    Video footage then later shows I actually left them hanging on the door.
    Eventhough I still don't remember, I'ld have to change my mind and admit that yes... apparantly I didn't put them on my desk after all.

    See?

    I think what you are looking for are dogmatic beliefs.
    Being dogmatic in a belief, is not the same as being certain about a belief.
     
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  14. charlie sc

    charlie sc Well-Known Member

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    This is slightly veering towards empirical evidence to the contrary but it's still similar.You're assuming this person will change their mind once they see video-footage. I don't think this happens for everyone. Look at those flat-Earthers, hollow Earthers, and so on. Flat Earthers will say, after they viewed an image of earth or the curvature from Earth from space, that the image or footage has been doctored. Look at Creationists and how they ignore empirical evidence to the extreme. Therefore, my proposition still applies ;)
     
  15. charlie sc

    charlie sc Well-Known Member

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    Why would you prefer being super closed minded than an atheist?
     
  16. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Your opinion is noted, however it is said god is an omni everything designer, if he deliberately designed childhood leukemia then that us one sick minded god you have there. Is that the sort of god you want to believe in?
     
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  17. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Yup
     
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  18. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but then you are, as I said, talking about dogmatism. Not mere certainty of beliefs.
    It's being certain of a belief and treating it as unquestionable.
    And then, due to that dogmatism, going ahead and assuming that any and all evidence to the contrary MUST be wrong by definition.

    Words to describe such a (closed minded) belief would be "dogmatic" and "unquestionable".

    Again, I can be certain of something and then find out - and accept - that I was wrong.
    But I can not be dogmatically certain of something and then do the same.
    The dogmatism would prevent me from doing so... Not the certainty.

    Yes. And the reason would be their dogmatism. Not their conviction / degree of belief.
     
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  19. charlie sc

    charlie sc Well-Known Member

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    Assuming it is dogmatism, perhaps then dogmatism is can be measured by certainty. And absolute certainty is the extreme end of believe. You may notice, the IQ vs religiosity studies have better explanatory power with varying degrees of certainty.
     
  20. charlie sc

    charlie sc Well-Known Member

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    How can you be so certain of something that’s so ill defined and has no scientific data?
     
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