Are you closed minded?

[charlie sc]

which is gratitude and connecting with something larger than yourself, in many instances

Why do you need/want to give gratitude in the first place?

[sarcasm]Yes, because questions like that are a fantastic way to open up good faith dialogues with someone to learn about another culture.[/sarcasm]

Someone has to do it

If we want to learn about other cultures, asking good questions is paramount.

I'm not really interested in learning if other cultures/ideologies are not interested in reciprocating. Perhaps, then, it's better to understand the resistance in understanding each other rather than plead and hope for reciprocity. Sometimes, confrontation and tough love are needed.

It's something that is more than worth thinking about for your next thread. Others have already pointed out the problems with framing this in the manner you have, myself included.

I think I've framed it rather well. It may not sound nice, but the logic is sound. Are we then to frame it in a way that someone may feel better and therefore miss the message or in a confrontational manner where it upsets some people, but it gets the point across. I dunno... The OP is against any sort of absolute certainty - atheism included.

Also, you really could have just created an anonymous poll. You cannot edit your own posts indefinitely.

I've noticed. Oh, well. I did enjoy collecting the polls and interpreting them.

 

[SalixIncendium]

How certain are you and, how do you know it's outside of reality ?

Certain beyond a doubt. And I, in all honesty, have not found the words to describe the experience itself with complete accuracy, let alone the words to describe how I know.

 

[charlie sc]

I do not think it bothers God...

Maybe it does, hmmm?

It is all in a day's work for Him as believers often get angry at Him, most of them just won't admit it.

Just because you get angry at god, does not mean other people get angry at him/her. Do you think your assertion that others get angry at god justifies you getting angry at him/her?

Besides, I usually don't get God to DO anything to help me unless I get really angry at Him.

God does something for you? What does he do for you and why do you think it's anger that helps?

 

[charlie sc]

I disagree with the assertion that being absolutely certain about something entails being closed minded.
One might be absolutely certain about something and yet be open to evidence that proves the contrary.
For instance, I might be absolutely certain you are a real human being and yet be open to evidence that you are not.

You seem to ignore cases where people are absolutely certain and ignore evidence to the contrary. Flat eathers, all types of weird conspiracy theorists, Scientology, creationism, etc. Therefore, absolutely certain are people who think exactly like that. In my experience, atheists are far more reciprocal than theists. Atheists say they'll need empirical evidence of god to become theists. Even Matt Dillahunty said that and so do I. However, what sort of evidence does a theist require? well, lol, you cannot negate a positive claim that is unverifiable and unfalsifiable. That's fine, but the polarising difference comes when you ask if they could be wrong or there's a chance there is no god. I don't think this phenomenon is specific to religion, but it seems to be prevalent in religious ideologies.

 

[Koldo]

You seem to ignore cases where people are absolutely certain and ignore evidence to the contrary. Flat eathers, all types of weird conspiracy hearties, Scientology, creationism, etc. Therefore, absolutely certain are people who think exactly like that. In my experience, atheists are far more reciprocal than theists. Atheists say they'll need empirical evidence of god to become theists. Even Matt Dillahunty said that and so do I. However, what sort of evidence does a theist require? well, lol, you cannot negate a positive claim that is unverifiable and unfalsifiable. That's fine, but the polarising difference comes when you ask if they could be wrong or there's a chance there is no god. I don't think this phenomenon is a specific to religion, but it seems to be prevalent in religious ideologies.

I am not ignoring that. I have merely said that being absolutely certain about something doesn't entail that one is close minded which is what your OP stated.

 

[charlie sc]

I am not ignoring that. I have merely said that being absolutely certain about something doesn't entail that one is close minded which is what your OP stated.

Then, how would you define someone who is not open to contrary evidence?

 

[charlie sc]

Certain beyond a doubt. And I, in all honesty, have not found the words to describe the experience itself with complete accuracy, let alone the words to describe how I know.

How do you know you experienced the same exact thing your daughter did? Could it be that she said what she did to make you happy?

 

[SalixIncendium]

How do you know you experienced the same exact thing your daughter did? Could it be that she said what she did to make you happy?

We had the sort of relationship where we were very honest with each other, especially when it came to spiritual matters. She wouldn't have done that, and perhaps couldn't have even if she wanted to given the frame of mind she had been in just prior to the experience.

Given the circumstance and the way in which she communicated it to me, I have no doubt it was the same.

 

[charlie sc]

We had the sort of relationship where we were very honest with each other, especially when it came to spiritual matters. She wouldn't have done that, and perhaps couldn't have even if she wanted to given the frame of mind she had been in just prior to the experience.

Given the circumstance and the way in which she communicated it to me, I have no doubt it was the same.

Fair enough

 

[Koldo]

Then, how would you define someone who is not open to contrary evidence?

Someone who is not open to contrary evidence is closed minded.
Someone who is absolutely certain about something may or may not be open to contrary evidence.

 

[Trailblazer]

Maybe it does, hmmm?

Maybe it does bother God that I vent at Him, but it cannot hurt God because nothing can hurt God.

Just because you get angry at god, does not mean other people get angry at him/her. Do you think your assertion that others get angry at god justifies you getting angry at him/her?

I know that others do because they have said so.
It is not a matter of justification. I should not get angry at God because it is not good for me, but it cannot hurt God and God understands and forgives because God is merciful.

God does something for you? What does he do for you and why do you think it's anger that helps?

I correlate my getting angry at God to God doing something to help me with what I got angry about because something usually happens after I get really angry at God, plead and grovel.

 

[Jollybear]

Why dilute the "message" by passing through fallible humans?

How you know it gets diluted?

Plus, even if it did get diluted, perhaps thats not a terrible thing. When bold coffee gets diluted it becomes medium or soft coffee. Not a big deal.

God can do anything-- according to your label. But cannot manage to communicate except to gullible and/or stupid people?

Hmmmm....

Oh HE CAN communicate to anyone. But, also, you assume he communicates only to gullible and stupid people.

Nope. It's a consequence of your beliefs.

You have assumptions. Do you deny this?

And? THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT "CHOICE" IS A DEADBEAT, LAZY, INEFFECTIVE STUPID "GOD".

No, thats just your negative perception. Its not lazy or ineffective for God to set up a chain of authority system. Why do you think otherwise?

 

[charlie sc]

Someone who is absolutely certain about something may or may not be open to contrary evidence.

I disagree.

 

[charlie sc]

Maybe it does bother God that I vent at Him, but it cannot hurt God because nothing can hurt God.

As an analogy, anger directed at another person is quite aggressive and is especially unhealthy in any relationship. While you may not think it doesn't hurt people, it actually does. An unhealthy relationship is when one where someone expresses anger at someone else, and, most often than not, is an abusive relationship. However, if you're the one getting angry then I wouldn't expect you to understand this. Ummm, do you get angry at people in your life?

I know that others do because they have said so.
It is not a matter of justification. I should not get angry at God because it is not good for me, but it cannot hurt God and God understands and forgives because God is merciful.

So, god forgives you even though you do it again and again and again ?

I correlate my getting angry at God to God doing something to help me with what I got angry about because something usually happens after I get really angry at God, plead and grovel.

It seems here you've said that anger actually improves the relationship with you and god?

 

[Koldo]

I disagree.

*shrugs*

 

[Trailblazer]

As an analogy, anger directed at another person is quite aggressive and is especially unhealthy in any relationship. While you may not think it doesn't hurt people, it actually does. An unhealthy relationship is when one where someone expresses anger at someone else, and, most often than not, is an abusive relationship. However, if you're the one getting angry then I wouldn't expect you to understand this. Ummm, do you get angry at people in your life?

But I am not in a relationship with God and God is not a person.
No, I do not generally get angry at people unless there is a good reason and even then I do not direct my anger at them.

So, god forgives you even though you do it again and again and again ?

I cannot say because only God knows that. I'll just have to take my chances.

It seems here you've said that anger actually improves the relationship with you and god?

No, I never said that at all... I said sometimes it is necessary to get His attention.... seems like He needs a hearing aid.

 

[Trailblazer]

I disagree.

Why?

 

[charlie sc]

But I am not in a relationship with God and God is not a person.
No, I do not generally get angry at people unless there is a good reason and even then I do not direct my anger at them.

You ignored what I said. Even so, I usually hear religious people say they're in a relationship with god. You know that relationships include platonic ones? A fiend or acquaintance is a type of relationship. Are you then some random stranger that asks god for stuff and then gets angry at him/her/it ?

No, I never said that at all... I said sometimes it is necessary to get His attention.... seems like He needs a hearing aid.

Why would anyone like you, listen to you or do anything for you if you get angry at them? Your logic is weird. You seem to think that anger is necessary. I've only ever heard this in people who are abusive in relationships.

Why?

post 224 explains most of it. There needs to be some sort of extreme measure: absolute certainty is that. It's one thing say the person didn't understand answering or the question itself; it's another thing ignoring any kind of extreme measure that has evidence and is an extreme answer in itself. We just disagree, just like you and me on the whole god existence issue.

 

[lukethethird]

Are you absolutely certain god exists or not?

I am certain that it is one or the other, but I am not certain that it matters.

 

[Trailblazer]

You ignored what I said. Even so, I usually hear religious people say they're in a relationship with god. You know that relationships include platonic ones? A fiend or acquaintance is a type of relationship. Are you then some random stranger that asks god for stuff and then gets angry at him/her/it ?

I do not CARE what other religious people SAY. I am not in a relationship with God. I do not WANT a relationship with God but even if I did, I could not be IN a relationship with God because God keeps Himself completely hidden... How does one relate to an invisible God?
I do not ask God for stuff but if I said that I take it back. I tell God I have had it with Him, but if He wants to help He can. The ball is in His court because He has all the power.

Why would anyone like you, listen to you or do anything for you if you get angry at them? Your logic is weird. You seem to think that anger is necessary. I've only ever heard this in people who are abusive in relationships.

There you go again, equating God to a human being. God is not a human being so you cannot draw those parallels about abusive relationships. God cannot be abused because God is not a human being.

post 224 explains most of it. There needs to be some sort of extreme measure: absolute certainty is that. It's one thing say the person didn't understand answering or the question itself; it's another thing ignoring any kind of extreme measure that has evidence and is an extreme answer in itself. We just disagree, just like you and me on the whole god existence issue.

There is no chance that there is no God. I wish there was no God but there is.