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Featured Are you Certain There is no God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Nakosis, Dec 22, 2020.

  1. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I am certain there is no good reason for me to believe in God.

    Why?
    I see no reason to believe anything in the Bible.
    I see no reason to believe that God communicates to us either individually or through messengers.

    One can of course choose to believe otherwise but there is no argument or evidence which compels one to make either choice. Right?

    The choice to believe in these things, like the Bible is purely arbitrary.
    Why I don't believe is the same reason I don't believe Harry Potter is anything more than a fictional character, I've no reason to.

    Do you feel compelled to believe in God?
    Do you feel belief is necessary?

    I don't see it but perhaps you can explain it.
     
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  2. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Nope, I am not sure that there is no God either. Show me some evidence and if adequate I will believe. A lack of belief is not necessarily a belief against.
     
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  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I do not believe there is a god or gods for several reasons. No evidence exists that cannot be alternatively explained, logically the whole idea makes no sense, there are so many problems with this world that each point to there not being a god, i don't believe in magic.

    But show me a physical, falsifiable evidence of a god existing i will examine that evidence and ask the subject of the evidence some very searching questions.
     
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  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I don't believe god exist either since I haven't experienced it to know it's one particular god of many. Maybe people are asking for the wrong type of evidence and actually have experienced "god" just don't use that term to describe it.
     
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  5. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    IMO: An important question in this context is "What comes first: Faith or Experience?"

    IF Faith comes first
    THEN you won't Experience something IF you have No Faith
    AND you stay a disbeliever IF Experience is your only way to believe

    It makes sense to me, that Faith comes first. That is how stuff goes in this world.
    You meet a gorgeous girl, without Faith in yourself you won't ask her out, hence No Experience
    Same with the spiritual world. No Faith = No Experience = No Belief

    Note: I don't say that it is wrong/good to have "No Faith". Maybe some are born to "have Faith" while others are born to "have No Faith"
     
    #5 stvdv, Dec 22, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
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  6. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Would that also mean there is no good reason not to?

    Regards Tony
     
  7. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    All these things exhibit purposes in nature:


    Consider the hands. They are skillfully useful for the intellect to work with.

    Consider the legs and feet. They work in conjunction with your will to move, lift, stand, run, and work.

    Consider the eyes. They allow us to see what we are doing. To identify objects and realities.

    Consider the mind. It conceives from perception and constructs from reason and imagination. It forms memories for many reasons.

    You are self aware.

    Consider the ears that bring forth the sounds of actuality.

    Consider language and the ability to vocalize.

    Consider the fruits and vegetables that are vital to the nutrition of the human body.

    Everything the body can do is organized for the convenience of being and actions. It enables us to act upon our motives.

    Consider the heart. It is there for appreciations, joys, peaces, loves, enjoyments, fulfillment, relationships, conscience, wonder, awe, pleasures, character of being, neutralities, ambivalences, and identity of individuality.

    Consider the nose. It breathes and smells the nature we live in.

    The ability to communicate. The ability to understand and comprehend. The ability to embody characteristics of virtuous character. The ability to make logical deductions about important realities. The ability to weigh options. The ability to make judgments. To consider causes and effects or lack thereof.

    We can think from the heart or solely from the mind.


    The Human Body: To put things in the right places for the right reasons. And still get some aesthetic beauty out of it. And to get a measure of powerful, purposeful action potential out of it. To get a measure of effective efficiency and convenience out of it.

    To produce art, and creature conveniences and necessities for life.

    DNA uses coded information to construct body and being.


    Again human life is a long, line of just right scenarios to exist the way we do.

    The mind is made to know and remember.
    The mind is made to think and figure out things to do.
    The mind works with ideas.
    The body is built to use the environment.
    The mind is made to interpret and understand things for now and future reference.
    We build our future off of our past remembrances.
    The mind is made to see patterns and relationships.
    The mind is made to identify things.
    The mind is made to recall pertinent information.
    The mind is made to interact with the environment.
    The mind is used passively and willfully.
    The mind is an intelligent construction.

    As if God were a reality hacker.

    The mind is made to create and build things.
    The mind is meant to explore.
    The mind is meant to learn things.
    The mind is meant to construct meanings.

    Meaning is a necessary part of existence because mind does all these things.

    The mind is built to find phenomena and make meaning of phenomena it finds.

    Mind and body are tools to learn, to act, to survive, and to remember for usage.


    It is senseless to think that somehow all this functionality is mindlessly made. That pure mindless incident arranged things this way. Instead everything the body and mind are is meant for to do something.


    If not a God then something intentional planted us here by way of natural forces. Evolution simply ignores the appearance of mind constructing life. It doesn't address the problem so much as glaze over it.

    Science can't address the intrinsic nature of these phenomena because it is restricted to extrinsic observance of how the physical world works. The best science can do with regards to only consciousness is to find the physical mechanisms that enable it to switch on or off. That won't be an explanation of all the purposes found in life.

    As to the nature of how God exists that is an incomprehensible mystery. Because of its incomprehensible nature it is ruled out.

    There's mystery enough to compel the idea of God. Nothing is ideal in nature but we have just enough to invoke the mystery.

    I'm always amazed at the contrasting intuitions of atheists and theists. It's to the point that each seems totally alien to the other. And much is assumed about the reasons why people go to one side or the other.
     
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  8. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    “This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.”

    ~Douglas Adams​
     
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  9. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I did have faith. I grew up a Christian. I learn to read from a collection of books called the Bible stories. I gave my life to Jesus 17 and had a mystical experience at that time which support my faith.

    I was certain I was guided by the Holy Spirit. That everything which happened to me had a purpose to lead me to a better understanding of God. I prayed, had conversations with God, was answered given signs. People came into my life which taught me about different faiths. I accepted each was sent by God for my benefit.

    So I agree, without faith, these would all have been random events without plan or purpose. Faith melded all of these separate events into a narrative which fed back into my faith.

    However, that's the problem. Faith binds the events in your life to a narrative which supports faith. I had an opportunity to invest faith in several different beliefs. I found it didn't matter what the belief was, faith would create the narrative to support the belief. Without faith, the narrative doesn't get created.

    I decided that God should not be dependent on my faith to support God's existence. Reality should not be dependent on my faith to support its existence.

    So, IMO, it is a poor concept of God that requires my faith to support it.
     
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  10. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    No, I am not "certain" that there is no God, just as I am not certain that there isn't a Ming teapot orbiting Saturn.

    However, both are unlikely enough that I am as convinced as I need to be, in going forward.
     
  11. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    This doesn't equate to anything I am thinking. Nor does it relate to what I wrote.

    A puddle does not exhibit purpose. Nor do I find that humans are exceptionally special.

    I could turn this around and say that an atheist finds nothing sacred or meaningful about life and rather finds that everything is insignificant.
     
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  12. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I think you have to make assumptions, as an adult to believe in God. If you make those assumptions, which one is free to do, then probably there is no good reason not to.

    However, I don't make those assumptions. So I lack a reason to believe. This lack of a reason to is my good reason not to.
     
  13. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    The very concept of gods is a man-made construct. Man created god(s) in an attempt to explain (then) unexplainable mysteries.

    Saying an angry god caused the mountain to explode and kill some of the tribe's members was more satisfying than saying "I donno" why the mountain exploded.

    Humans cannot do anything about "I donno". Humans could and did find ways to alleviate angry gods through prayer and sacrifice. They could take some positive actions to prevent further destruction.

    Egotistical man-leaders told egotistical followers that the god created man in the image of the god. In reality, men created gods that looked like them.

    Reasons not to believe...the list is far too long for this thread.
     
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  14. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Really?
    our post that is in response to is really nothing more than a long drawn out retelling of what I presented.

    Your inability to see a puddles purpose does not negate the puddles purpose.

    Well then, just how special do you find them?

    And in doing so lose what credibility you had...
     
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  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    I believe the Bible because the prophecies in the Bible came true. Isaiah 52:13 and Isaiah 53: 12 say that the Messiah will be highly exalted but first will suffer terribly. He will actually be disfigured in his suffering. The narrative says that the people of Israel didn't get it. They thought he was suffering for his own sins and wickedness; they didn't realize he was bearing their sins, suffering on their behalf, and by his wounds there was healing for them.
     
  16. Meandflower

    Meandflower Active Member

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    It is possible to believe in God without believing in prophets, holy books..
     
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  17. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    I can say I made a conclusion based on what I see is strong evidence. That evidence gives what I see is relative certainty.

    Can anyone offer any solid evidence, a sure certainty, that God, or intelligence is not the cause of life?

    Such is the quandary. Regards Tony
     
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  18. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Thus you must be able to produce proof that the mind of man has no source external from a flesh brain.

    What is that certain unquestionable poof?

    Regards Tony
     
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  19. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    That does not make any sense
     
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  20. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Either case might be true, but neither leads to an assumption that humans, any man/woman would have any knowledge about this being.
    One assumption by itself is not enough. You need others.
     
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