Are you capable of betraying yourself to please someone else?

[Vee]

My answer to that question is no, but let me give a few examples to put this in perspective.
Sometimes when I travel, my smoker friends ask me to buy them cigarettes at the airport because they're cheaper. I always politely refuse. I hate all things related to smoking, always have, always will. Even though the cigarettes aren't for me and they will reimburse me for the purchase, I just can't do it because it makes me feel that I'm encouraging their habit.
Another one: a few years ago my brother loaned money to a friend who asked him for financial help to pay for an abortion that she couldn't afford. Something about the baby being inconvenient for her career at that point in her life. I was absolutely horrified when he told me. He didn't have a problem with it, but had she asked me, there is no way I would have loaned her the money for that purpose. I simply couldn't do that and live with my conscience.
There are many other examples I could you give you, but you get the idea.
I help people as much as I can, but when it comes to my conscience and my personal beliefs I have to draw a line, otherwise I feel like I'm betraying myself.

 

[BSM1]

My answer to that question is no, but let me give a few examples to put this in perspective.
Sometimes when I travel, my smoker friends ask me to buy them cigarettes at the airport because they're cheaper. I always politely refuse. I hate all things related to smoking, always have, always will. Even though the cigarettes aren't for me and they will reimburse me for the purchase, I just can't do it because it makes me feel that I'm encouraging their habit.
Another one: a few years ago my brother loaned money to a friend who asked him for financial help to pay for an abortion that she couldn't afford. Something about the baby being inconvenient for her career at that point in her life. I was absolutely horrified when he told me. He didn't have a problem with it, but had she asked me, there is no way I would have loaned her the money for that purpose. I simply couldn't do that and live with my conscience.
There are many other examples I could you give you, but you get the idea.
I help people as much as I can, but when it comes to my conscience and my personal beliefs I have to draw a line, otherwise I feel like I'm betraying myself.

What do you have against abortions?

 

[Brickjectivity]

My answer to that question is no, but let me give a few examples to put this in perspective.
Sometimes when I travel, my smoker friends ask me to buy them cigarettes at the airport because they're cheaper. I always politely refuse. I hate all things related to smoking, always have, always will. Even though the cigarettes aren't for me and they will reimburse me for the purchase, I just can't do it because it makes me feel that I'm encouraging their habit.
Another one: a few years ago my brother loaned money to a friend who asked him for financial help to pay for an abortion that she couldn't afford. Something about the baby being inconvenient for her career at that point in her life. I was absolutely horrified when he told me. He didn't have a problem with it, but had she asked me, there is no way I would have loaned her the money for that purpose. I simply couldn't do that and live with my conscience.
There are many other examples I could you give you, but you get the idea.
I help people as much as I can, but when it comes to my conscience and my personal beliefs I have to draw a line, otherwise I feel like I'm betraying myself.

I was exactly the same way before I became a smoker. I once refused to help someone get cigs. They were cross with me. I also would not cuss. I have changed. I am willing to save people money. I have refused to buy alcohol for underage students but only because I don't want to break the law. I would refuse any such request that endangered my own freedom I think. Even so somehow they get alcohol on their own, and I'm not doing them a favor by not buying it. My opinion is that you could relax a bit, and you would not be doing evil. Why? Its because its a matter of their conscience not yours. I think you are making a mistake.

Similarly I used to be very careful not to ever speed even a tiny bit. This drove the people behind me positively nuts sometimes. It was two mistakes. One, I was disrespecting the person behind me. Two, I was viewing morality as if it were made of rules. Morality is not a set of rules. It doesn't and cannot come from rules.

 

[Axe Elf]

As you have strictly worded it, I don't think it's possible to betray yourself--in the sense of doing something you wouldn't normally do--to please someone else. If you would do something to please someone else, then that is something you WOULD normally do, and therefore not a betrayal of yourself.

But in terms of the question of how far you would go to please someone else when their wishes conflict with your principles, I'd have to weigh each situation on its own merits. I smoked for 28 years, but quit 9 years ago. I would still buy a friend cigarettes if it was to do them a favor and save them money (but I wouldn't let them smoke around me--can't stand the smell now). I don't think I would loan someone money for an abortion, especially an abortion of convenience, because not only is abortion as a method of birth control against my principles, but it's a heck of a lot more money up front than a couple cartons of cigarettes.

In general, where I think there is room for a legitimate difference of opinion, I would do something nice for someone else even if it wasn't necessarily in agreement with my own opinions--and the likelihood becomes greater when the risk or cost to myself is lesser--but I don't think I would go very far to indulge someone when I felt there was poor judgment or reasoning involved, especially when the risk or cost to myself is significant.

 

[exchemist]

As you have strictly worded it, I don't think it's possible to betray yourself--in the sense of doing something you wouldn't normally do--to please someone else. If you would do something to please someone else, then that is something you WOULD normally do, and therefore not a betrayal of yourself.

But in terms of the question of how far you would go to please someone else when their wishes conflict with your principles, I'd have to weigh each situation on its own merits. I smoked for 28 years, but quit 9 years ago. I would still buy a friend cigarettes if it was to do them a favor and save them money (but I wouldn't let them smoke around me--can't stand the smell now). I don't think I would loan someone money for an abortion, especially an abortion of convenience, because not only is abortion as a method of birth control against my principles, but it's a heck of a lot more money up front than a couple cartons of cigarettes.

In general, where I think there is room for a legitimate difference of opinion, I would do something nice for someone else even if it wasn't necessarily in agreement with my own opinions--and the likelihood becomes greater when the risk or cost to myself is lesser--but I don't think I would go very far to indulge someone when I felt there was poor judgment or reasoning involved, especially when the risk or cost to myself is significant.

Agree. I too was going to comment that "betraying" oneself is putting it in rather dramatic terms.

There are many things I might slightly disapprove of that I would go along with, for the sake of social harmony or on a balance of factors. However there are some things I would not be party to under any circumstances, or so I like to think.

 

[WalterTrull]

What do you have against abortions?

 

[Cooky]

What do you have against abortions?

My 20 year old daughter took the abortion pill. When it came out, it was a defined little human being. She cried. She put it in a matchbox and threw it off the pier.

Now every year, a round that time she cries... The despair is real.

 

[Cooky]

Stupid me, I started a thread on it at CF, and had everyone throw in their two cents, and had her read it... I told her I was going to stay out of it because it was her ordeal.

...Sometimes I feel like a failure as a grandfather.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'm not sure if betray is the right word, but I have made choices that were detrimental to myself or acted against my principles in relationships because I thought it would make my SO at the time happy.

I have learned through these experiences and do not make such choices or act in such a way anymore.

 

[SomeRandom]

My 20 year old daughter took the abortion pill. When it came out, it was a defined little human being. She cried. She put it in a matchbox and threw it off the pier.

Now every year, a round that time she cries... The despair is real.

Not to pry or be rude, but how far along was she when it came out?
You don't have to answer, it's just that before viability they tend to look more like wierd alien seahorses. But people react to things differently I suppose.

 

[Audie]

My answer to that question is no, but let me give a few examples to put this in perspective.
Sometimes when I travel, my smoker friends ask me to buy them cigarettes at the airport because they're cheaper. I always politely refuse. I hate all things related to smoking, always have, always will. Even though the cigarettes aren't for me and they will reimburse me for the purchase, I just can't do it because it makes me feel that I'm encouraging their habit.
Another one: a few years ago my brother loaned money to a friend who asked him for financial help to pay for an abortion that she couldn't afford. Something about the baby being inconvenient for her career at that point in her life. I was absolutely horrified when he told me. He didn't have a problem with it, but had she asked me, there is no way I would have loaned her the money for that purpose. I simply couldn't do that and live with my conscience.
There are many other examples I could you give you, but you get the idea.
I help people as much as I can, but when it comes to my conscience and my personal beliefs I have to draw a line, otherwise I feel like I'm betraying myself.

I dont do moral or ethical absolutes.

It would be easier if I did.

 

[YmirGF]

Ideally, I would say that I could never betray myself, but having come out as a gay male, I am well aware of the need to duck and cover, as it were...

 

[Cooky]

Not to pry or be rude, but how far along was she when it came out?
You don't have to answer, it's just that before viability they tend to look more like wierd alien seahorses. But people react to things differently I suppose.

I'm not sure how far along she was, but I'd imagine it was right up to the legal limit for doing that. When it came out, she stayed in the bathroom for a long time looking at it though. And her eyes were red when she came out.

...But she is a genuinely good-hearted person. So she would be different from someone who has a callous personality.

 

[Cooky]

...So yeah. I betrayed myself by not pressuring her into not doing it. Instead, I remained neutral while her cousin and boyfriend pressured her hard into doing it.

 

[WalterTrull]

not pressuring her into not doing it.

That would be taking the advanced checkers course at the Jr. college?

 

[Cooky]

That would be taking the advanced checkers course at the Jr. college?

Pretty much.

 

[stvdv]

Another one: a few years ago my brother loaned money to a friend who asked him for financial help to pay for an abortion that she couldn't afford

Suppose the "to be born baby" is The Anti Christ, and I knew that, then I would have no problem donating for the good cause

For me it's all about "Hurt Never ... Help Ever". Live is full of hurting, I just try to minimize it as much as I can

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm not sure how far along she was, but I'd imagine it was right up to the legal limit for doing that. When it came out, she stayed in the bathroom for a long time looking at it though. And her eyes were red when she came out.

...But she is a genuinely good-hearted person. So she would be different from someone who has a callous personality.

You'd have to be bordering on sociopathic for it not to affect you in some way. I mean human emotion is human emotion. Seems to be a hindrance at times though.

 

[WalterTrull]

human emotion is human emotion.

Wait, What??

 

[savagewind]

I voted yes, but as I can recall it was only ever related to a marriage. He would say, "sign this" and I would sign it even though I had my doubts.