Are you an atheist? if so, What is your POV about God?

[Deathbydefault]

Can't really understand what a certain level of absolute is?
Something is either absolute or not...
There is no Partially absolute truth.

It's "a certain level of absolute certainty."
In philosophy there are many levels of certainty.

 

[Willamena]

If one person says your shoes are on the shelf and another person says your shoes are in the kitchen any particular reason why if you don't believe the first person you have to believe the second one? If one person says gods exist and another says they don't any particular reason you have to believe the second person if you don't believe the first one?

Conflicting reports about where my shoes reside have nothing to do with what I believe about my shoes. I don't believe what other people say--it's all proposed. I believe the evidence of my senses and corresponding memories, as that's all there is to believe.

 

[ArtieE]

Conflicting reports about where my shoes reside have nothing to do with what I believe about my shoes. I don't believe what other people say--it's all proposed. I believe the evidence of my senses and corresponding memories, as that's all there is to believe.

LOL you still don't understand that not believing something doesn't mean believing the opposite? You still don't understand that it is perfectly logical to say "I don't believe gods exist and I don't believe gods don't exist I haven't made up my mind what to believe."?

 

[Sonofason]

And what evidence do you have of your mighty god ?.

I have 66 books, written by 40 different authors over a 1500 year time period who with remarkable consistency describe historical and future events with great precision and accuracy. Archaeological discoveries are continually verifying the accuracy of the historical and cultural references in the Bible, proving the veracity of the Bible. The more they dig, the more it is confirmed. Scientists, geologists, astronomers, physicists and mathematicians are continually and unwittingly showing that the record as recorded in these books is accurate and true.

All of the authors of each of the books of the Bible describe with absolute consistency the nature of this being that they all refer to as God. It is abundantly clear from reading these texts that they all believed that what they were writing was true.

There are more than 300 specific prophecies contained in the Old Testament that predict and describe the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is well documented within the pages of the New Testament, that these prophecies have been fulfilled.

There are many other prophesies contained in the Bible which point to a future time which appear to me to be describing events that are happening today in our time.

I have experienced God. I have put this book to the test, and I have been rewarded for it. I have no doubt that God exists. I have no doubt that the Bible is true. I have no doubt that the future events as described in the Bible will come true. I have no doubt that the Messiah is coming. And I have no doubt that it will be very soon.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Actually, I Can't really state there is no God because I don't really know it.
Its like saying that someone saying that he doesn't believe in aliens, should say there are no aliens or else it sounds like is hanging to Alienism...

I Can tell you that I do believe there are aliens. Not because of stories or people saying they saw them, rather because based on what we know about our universe, the chances of there being life on other planets is increasing daily.

on the other hand, I can't prove to you there really are aliens, so I cannot state that aliens are true, The same I can't say for sure that there aren't.

If we went by what we know of reality, for now, we can say "I know god does not exist" because that isnt part of our (well my) reality. Its like reading Harry Potter and knowing what I know of reality, instead of saying "he is not real and he wont jump from the page" Id rather say "I believe." Unless you are taking what you do not know into consideration that it may be true (agnoticsm) by what lack of knowledge of reality do you have that you believe god does not exist but do not know?

If I had no money in my hand and there is a claim that said I did, by what reason should I say "I believe I dont" rather than "I know I dont" based on what you know of reality and how things can be said to exist to our naked eye to those that cant?

EDIT

Better question to all atheist.

Is your lack of belief based on knowledge or lack of knowlede?

If its on knowledge, you should say you Know.

If its lack of knowledge, thats agnoticism.

 

[Willamena]

LOL you still don't understand that not believing something doesn't mean believing the opposite? You still don't understand that it is perfectly logical to say "I don't believe gods exist and I don't believe gods don't exist I haven't made up my mind what to believe?"

You're right that not believing something doesn't mean believing its opposite. That's nothing that I claimed.

 

[idav]

Following a Post I wrote, I Heard the claim that Atheism is claiming there is No god,
I tried correcting the person and explaining him that Atheism is the lack of belief in a God.
Its not saying there is no God, rather saying you don't believe there is A god based on current evidence.

I Would love hearing Atheists POV on the matter..

From theists point of view, atheist are not believing in something that actually exists. Regardless whether theism is faith based or not. So atheism is claiming to know or understand something theists don't and vice versa.

 

[Sonofason]

Hardly. It may be unimaginative or indicate questionable premises, among other possibilities.

But it can't be dishonest unless you somehow know that the speaker has access to solid evidence that somehow evaded most everyone else. You should avoid making such accusations so recklessly.


How would you know that? You don't seem to even understand what the conclusion was.

Then to even attempt to say anything about whether there is a god is always dishonest.

That is an entirely absurd, unreasonable definition of "honesty".

Do you realize that to even produce that number you had to violate your own parameters of honesty?

You're right Luis, I cannot be certain in this case of the dishonesty of the poster. I have made an assumption that those who draw mathematical conclusions have an understanding of mathematics. It very well may be that he was basing his biased conclusion on questionable premises, or that he is indeed unimaginative. But his conclusion appears most dishonest to me. He cannot possibly know the odds of whether or not a God exists. A non-experience of a God is in no way evidence that no God exists, any more than suggesting because there is no ocean in your back yard that no oceans exist. It is absurd, and to say the least unimaginative. There is in fact no logical and verifiable premise in existence which could result in the conclusion that this poster has given. Any person with an ounce of reason must know that. And so I believe the conclusion was based in dishonesty. If not, the poster is completely unreasonable.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Better question to all atheist.

Is your lack of belief on knowledge or lack of knowlede?

If its on knowledge, you should say you Know.

If its lack of knowledge, thats agnoticism.

Or you could say that the question of belief and knowledge are separate and not mutually exclusive and be an agnostic atheist like me. Who both does not believe in gods nor claims certainty of knowledge.

 

[Willamena]

@ArtieE , what other people say doesn't represent my beliefs. If you're imposing truth/falsehood on the picture of "my beliefs," casting it onto other people's claims is sorely misplacing it.

Perhaps try again.

 

[ArtieE]

All of the authors of each of the books of the Bible describe with absolute consistency the nature of this being that they all refer to as God.

No they don't.

No man hath seen God at any time. John 1:18, 1 John 4:12
Whom no man hath seen nor can see. 1 Timothy 6:16

And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend. Exodus 33:11

I [Micaiah] saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. 1 Kings 22:19

The LORD stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand. Amos 7:7

Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Genesis 32:30

 

[Sonofason]

But I can claim the exact same proofs as you for Shiva... Scripture and personal experience.

So how can we decide we are right based on those reasons alone?



That last sentence is confusing because I never said my cat was explicitly an atheist, just that, technically, okay yes literally, my cat is an atheist. But that is implicit in that it's implied that my cat is an atheist because cats can't conceptualize of a god (wait for the incoming cats think they are gods jokes).

I'm actually agreeing that saying you lack a belief is an explicit stance, I just don't think it's really "lacking" a belief but asserting a disbelief when you do. So it doesn't really mean anything different from saying you don't believe in god, you disbelieve ect. It all means the same thing. Rather I think people use the words "lack belief" due to the more neutral connotations of those words.

You know the stereotype; the dogmatic, overbearing atheist. A lot of people believe that it's representative of atheists. And the difference in language is a response to that but I don't agree with that response as a nontheist myself.

We don't need to decide anything. I am quite content with the beliefs that I have been convinced are true. That is why they are called my beliefs. If you are content with your beliefs, why question them?

First off, you have no idea if your cat has a belief in God. And if it is true that your cat does not have a belief in God, the following must be true. Either you cat believes that no God exists, or your cat is unaware whether or not a God exists. If your cat believes that no God exists, then your cat is an atheist. If your cat is unaware whether or not a God exists, your cat is agnostic.

 

[ArtieE]

You're right that not believing something doesn't mean believing its opposite. That's nothing that I claimed.

So now you say that saying "I do NOT believe gods exist" isn't the same as saying "I believe gods don't exist"?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Or you could say that the question of belief and knowledge are separate and not mutually exclusive and be an agnostic atheist like me. Who both does not believe in gods nor claims certainty of knowledge.

Hm. I havent heard of agnostic atheist until I came on RF. I figure either you believe X exists or you dont. Being god rather than money doesnt change anything. But Im a hard atheist, another new phrase. If someone gave me proof it cant be a man in the sky coming from the clouds or someone turning into salt. It has to go beyond or independent of individual religions.

What is youe disbelief based off of?

 

[Willamena]

So now you say that saying "I do NOT believe gods exist" isn't the same as saying "I believe gods don't exist"?

No, I'm saying that when I say I don't believe in gods it's because I believe they don't exist. It's the same as for the shoes on the shelf.

There's a real-world proposition: "my shoes are on the shelf," or "gods exist." My investment in the truth of the proposition is my belief. Atheism is a statement of my disbelief, which is my investment in the falsehood of the proposition.

(For what it's worth, investing in other's words is not a real-world proposition.)

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Hm. I havent heard of agnostic atheist until I came on RF. I figure either you believe X exists or you dont. Being god rather than money doesnt change anything. But Im a hard atheist, another new phrase. If someone gave me proof it cant be a man in the sky coming from the clouds or someone turning into salt. It has to go beyond or independent of individual religions.

What is youe disbelief based off of?

This is a good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

 

[ArtieE]

There's a real-world proposition: "my shoes are on the shelf," or "gods exist."

There's also a real-world proposition "gods don't exist". You don't have to believe that proposition just because you don't believe the proposition "gods exist".

 

[Sonofason]

Actually, I Can't really state there is no God because I don't really know it.
Its like saying that someone saying that he doesn't believe in aliens, should say there are no aliens or else it sounds like is hanging to Alienism...

I Can tell you that I do believe there are aliens. Not because of stories or people saying they saw them, rather because based on what we know about our universe, the chances of there being life on other planets is increasing daily.

on the other hand, I can't prove to you there really are aliens, so I cannot state that aliens are true, The same I can't say for sure that there aren't.

What are your premises for determining that the odds of their being life on other planets is increasing daily. If I flip a coin, the odds of the coin landing on heads are a 50/50 chance, each time I toss the coin. The reason is because there are two sides of a coin, each of which for all practical purposes have the same proportions as the other, each of which has no measurable physical attributes that would consequentially favor one side verses the other.

What are the premises for your conclusion?

A fact about chances is that the true chance of something happening does not change as a result of our knowledge about the object. It is the predictability of those chances that we are estimating on account of our knowledge about the object, how it behaves, what it is made of, how the various forces of nature affect it, etc. that we base our calculations of chance upon. In this case you are talking about life. No one knows how life originated. No one really knows what life is. So how is it that we are closer than we were ages ago at predicting the possibility of life existing elsewhere in the universe?

 

[McBell]

To equate God with fairies in your backyard garden betrays a very narrow definition of God, that which little children imagine.

Except for the fact that both the fairies and god have the same amount and same type of evidence...

That you are unwilling or unable to seem the correlation and instead wish to go on about being offended reveals much more about you than the correlation.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@ADigitalArtist

Agnoticism and agnostic atheist is confusing. For example,

Do you believe a person behind your screen is typing to you exists?

If you believe (a theist) the person exists, what is that belief based on?

Theists can tell you straight what their beliefs are based on. As such, with these facts they conclude they KNOW their beliefs exist/are facts. They arent beliefs.

If you dont believe a human is behind your screen, what is this belief based on?

If a theist can base their beliefs on something why cant atheists? You cant be hanging on "I dont know" if you are to claim disbelief. It must be based on some knowledge whether true or false.

What you want to claim or not has no barring on whether your disbeliefs are based on facts (atheism) or lack of knowledge to say anything about the subject (agnostic).