Are you a member of a political party?

[Laika]

I'm currently looking into what political party to join. Its tricky as I'm attracted to the more crazy left wing ones but know they are long-shots that would need decades of work and favourable conditions to pick up support. Mostly they are just anti-social political cults in all but name. so I wondered if anyone on RF is currently a member of a political party or if they have experiences worth sharing.

I was a member of the communist party of britain for a few months in 2015. Its one of the larger far left ones. I wasn't able to go to a meeting, etc as I live in a ultra-conservative rural area in the UK and commuting to major cities takes hours. I left after rereading the party programme "britain's road to socialism" and started to get the feeling it wasn't ambitious enough to do what it set out to do and wondering if it was such a good idea to be part of one that would. So beyond talking about politics online and reading alot of history and theoretical books my experiences are pretty limited. (Though I was on revleft.com for a while).

Any thoughts or experiences you want to share? Are you or have you ever been a member of a political party?

 

[Kirran]

I am a member of the Green Party, but am gonna let it expire.

I will urge you very strongly to join the Labour Party. They're the only real game in town for genuine leftism now, IMO. I am prepared to defend that statement too!

This is probably proselytising.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I'm a member of the Scottish Greens.

I will urge you very strongly to join the Labour Party. They're the only real game in town for genuine leftism now, IMO. I am prepared to defend that statement too!

FYI, this is the part that warranted the rating of 'Funny'.

 

[Kirran]

I'm a member of the Scottish Greens.

FYI, this is the part that warranted the rating of 'Funny'.

You wanna fight right now? Jeremy, I got your back bro.

I don't deny for a moment that they've really lost their way. The PLP is dominated by liberals in the heritage of Blair, who honestly aren't all that much better than Thatcherites. They hail from and represent the middle class. However, unlike the Greens, they do still have that working class heritage, and I think can genuinely become the party of the working class again. It'll be quite a social revolution.

 

[Laika]

I am a member of the Green Party, but am gonna let it expire.

I will urge you very strongly to join the Labour Party. They're the only real game in town for genuine leftism now, IMO. I am prepared to defend that statement too!

This is probably proselytising.

Do I have to deploy the optimistic rating again?

I'm pessimistic about labour as my views place a heavy emphasis on "correct" theory as a way to determine the most workable ways of getting socialism (admittedly a very marxist criticism). I'm looking into the CPGB(ML) but I'd need to swallow one heck of alot of pro-soviet, pro-stalin, pro-dprk stuff to do it. There isn't a more extreme left party in the UK and so I'm chewing the idea over very throughly. Its one of those things that would be easier to do if I knew a heck of alot less about communism or went temporarily insane. If its a dead end then I'm going to have to get very creative.

 

[Kirran]

Do I have to deploy the optimistic rating again?

I'm pessimistic about labour as my views place a heavy emphasis on "correct" theory as a way to determine the most workable ways of getting socialism (admittedly a very marxist criticism). I'm looking into the CPGB(ML) but I'd need to swallow one heck of alot of pro-soviet, pro-stalin, pro-dprk stuff to do it. There isn't a more extreme left party in the UK and so I'm chewing the idea over very throughly. Its one of those things that would be easier to do if I knew a heck of alot less about communism or went temporarily insane. If its a dead end then I'm going to have to get very creative.

You and your rainbows...

In what way is there any potential for a party like the CPGB(ML) or similar groups to get anything done, when they're so utterly marginal? This is why I support Labour. They are a broad church, they do include various far-leftists, including anarchists, Trotskyists, various other Marxists etc.

And, more importantly, outside of what labels people use to describe their politics Labour has deep roots in syndicalism and in sticking up for the working class. Unless another party which bases itself in class politics and has widespread support from the working class arises, I'm sticking with Labour.

 

[Laika]

You and your rainbows...

In what way is there any potential for a party like the CPGB(ML) or similar groups to get anything done, when they're so utterly marginal? This is why I support Labour. They are a broad church, they do include various far-leftists, including anarchists, Trotskyists, various other Marxists etc.

And, more importantly, outside of what labels people use to describe their politics Labour has deep roots in syndicalism and in sticking up for the working class. Unless another party which bases itself in class politics and has widespread support from the working class arises, I'm sticking with Labour.

Bit off topic but ok.

This goes back to old questions amongst marxists about whether a political party should have a mass base or be the intellectual vanguard armed with marxist theory. The idea of a mass party uniting lots of people clearly has advantages in elections but it doesn't necessarily mean its disciplined or cohesive enough to weather periods of turbulence. The labour party is currently in total dissarray even if I agreed with when they actually say what they support. Its a hostile takeover by entryists and trotskyists as part of a major rupture with its own base. There is a deeply reactionary parasiticism in just trying to take the labour party hostage for radical ideas by a inner party coup basically. Its pessimistic in thinking you can't win people over with the right ideas so you have to virtually "steal" a larger party. Making the case for unpopular marginalised ideas is alot bolder and much more constructive as there is less deception and self-deception involved. If you say what your going to do from the beginning you can build it from the ground up.

Smaller, admittedly more cult-like parties, have less electoral prospects but may be alot better at grass roots organisation in having better discipline, organisation and by having a shared ideology. Essentially, they are more cohesive and much more effective at using their resources when they want to act. Despite always being tiny minorities in the UK or the US, communist parties were able to multiply their effectiveness by using "democratic centralism" as a model for party organisation. So the effect was often disproportionate to the number of members or vote they got. Ideally such parties are dictatorial (or "centralist") enough to effectively respond to situations whilst being democratic enough to still reflect the interests of its members but historically that balance is very shaky. Too much democracy and you get lots of sectarianism, too much dictatorship and its an unthinking cult.

In periods of little far left activity and support, the weaknesses become more obvious. So whether you look at as it a liability or an advantage, the insanity of groups like the CPGB(ML) is why they may actually survive in the bad times or succeed in better times.

 

[Kirran]

Bit off topic but ok.

This goes back to old questions amongst marxists about whether a political party should have a mass base or be the intellectual vanguard armed with marxist theory. The idea of a mass party uniting lots of people clearly has advantages in elections but it doesn't necessarily mean its disciplined or cohesive enough to weather periods of turbulence. The labour party is currently in total dissarray even if I agreed with when they actually say what they support. Its a hostile takeover by entryists and trotskyists as part of a major rupture with its own base. There is a deeply reactionary parasiticism in just trying to take the labour party hostage for radical ideas by a inner party coup basically. Its pessimistic in thinking you can't win people over with the right ideas so you have to virtually "steal" a larger party. Making the case for unpopular marginalised ideas is alot bolder and much more constructive as there is less deception and self-deception involved. If you say what your going to do from the beginning you can build it from the ground up.

Smaller, admittedly more cult-like parties, have less electoral prospects but may be alot better at grass roots organisation in having better discipline, organisation and by having a shared ideology. Essentially, they are more cohesive and much more effective at using their resources when they want to act. Despite always being tiny minorities in the UK or the US, communist parties were able to multiply their effectiveness by using "democratic centralism" as a model for party organisation. So the effect was often disproportionate to the number of members or vote they got. Ideally such parties are dictatorial (or "centralist") enough to effectively respond to situations whilst being democratic enough to still reflect the interests of its members but historically that balance is very shaky. Too much democracy and you get lots of sectarianism, too much dictatorship and its an unthinking cult.

In periods of little far left activity and support, the weaknesses become more obvious. So whether you look at as it a liability or an advantage, the insanity of groups like the CPGB(ML) is why they may actually survive in the bad times or succeed in better times.

Doesn't seem off-topic to me, but if you think so we can move it elsewhere bro.

Regardless of our differences of opinion on practical matters, it's certainly to be admired the depth of thought and research you've put in.

I wouldn't totally agree with your characterisation of recent events as having been a takeover exactly. Leftist ideals are held by the majority of the party, and the fact that that's becoming more visible with the rise of Corbyn has certainly enthused some other leftists from outside the party. But he got over 60% of the vote, it's not like he's just held up by entryists!

I see your points, but I think operating with and through the broad tent which is the Labour Party or similar parties can be valuable - it's a great platform, for one!

Although I'm no vanguardist, anyway

 

[Kirran]

Damn it @A Greased Scotsman! That'll teach me for posting your threads in new forums.

 

[Laika]

Doesn't seem off-topic to me, but if you think so we can move it elsewhere bro.

Regardless of our differences of opinion on practical matters, it's certainly to be admired the depth of thought and research you've put in.

I wouldn't totally agree with your characterisation of recent events as having been a takeover exactly. Leftist ideals are held by the majority of the party, and the fact that that's becoming more visible with the rise of Corbyn has certainly enthused some other leftists from outside the party. But he got over 60% of the vote, it's not like he's just held up by entryists!

I see your points, but I think operating with and through the broad tent which is the Labour Party or similar parties can be valuable - it's a great platform, for one!

Although I'm no vanguardist, anyway

I think its true that the labour party members are more left-wing than the parliamentary party. So with ed milibands inner party election rule changes away from a federal model to a one man, one vote system- it just came out. Even without Corbyn, the loss of labours stronghold in Scotland was going to necessitate major shifts anyway.

From the far lefts point of view Corbyn's victory is perhaps best described as an oppurtunistic infection. As the labour right wing has collapsed and can't find solutions, the labour party has losts it immunity. so the trotskyists and many on the far left are drawn in sensing weakness. I don't think this is viable in the long-term as even the most dedicated activists are going to struggle to "colonise" the whole labour party as a host body in a short space of time. Given the sheer desperation of the left in the UK- its very understandable.

I have to admit I would much prefer a left-wing labour victory or a green party landslide than something from the far left. (I mean if Sanders or Jill Stein had won in the US elections I would have been thrilled-instead we got "the donald"). If one of the more mainstream parties could win Its just a bit more predictable, conservative and "safer". but if I weigh up all the long-term threats (climate change being the big one) both labour and green strike me as building a platform by going from one election to another trying to get more votes. They are thinking in very short-term view between elections and thats dangerously dissconnected from the big picture. That necessarily makes me more extreme because I think things will get worse and so more aggressive solutions will be needed.

I think the thread will be ok here (even though I'm sure your itching to use your new found mod powers. I remember the buzz. ).

And Thanks Btw. I'm struggling to know what to do but I am consuming alot of data and information to try and figure out where the best options are. I just wish there was something easier and ready-made avaliable.

 

[allfoak]

I'm currently looking into what political party to join. Its tricky as I'm attracted to the more crazy left wing ones but know they are long-shots that would need decades of work and favourable conditions to pick up support. Mostly they are just anti-social political cults in all but name. so I wondered if anyone on RF is currently a member of a political party or if they have experiences worth sharing.

I was a member of the communist party of britain for a few months in 2015. Its one of the larger far left ones. I wasn't able to go to a meeting, etc as I live in a ultra-conservative rural area in the UK and commuting to major cities takes hours. I left after rereading the party programme "britain's road to socialism" and started to get the feeling it wasn't ambitious enough to do what it set out to do and wondering if it was such a good idea to be part of one that would. So beyond talking about politics online and reading alot of history and theoretical books my experiences are pretty limited. (Though I was on revleft.com for a while).

Any thoughts or experiences you want to share? Are you or have you ever been a member of a political party?

I have never even considered such a thing.
Is it like joining a church?

 

[Laika]

I have never even considered such a thing.
Is it like joining a church?

Thats probably not a bad comparison at a guess. Depending on the party, its ideology and structure, I think you can get very different experiences.

The mainstream ones I think are like you sign up, pay a monthly fee, recieve a newsletter, maybe help out by leafletting during elections, go to meetings at local branches, etc. Some of them will have youth wings for younger members, student organisations on campuses, branches for specific trade unions or workplaces. My local conservative party runs community events as a sort of get together for its members. Some of the far left parties have conferences or annual events for their members to bond, discuss current events and to learn more about the party, its ideas and its activities. thats probably true of other parties as well.

Some parties expect more effort and activism from their members and try to train and educate their members up to be life long activists "for the cause". (Thats true of far left ones and I'd guess for far right ones also). These ones very clearly do resemble churches and cults because they have to keep their members energised and motivated- so getting people "addicted" to party activity by regular meetings, etc helps. That often produces the same kind of behaviour as religions but superfically for different reasons. As with cults its best to be cautious as you don't quite know what your getting into but "extreme" doesn't necessarily mean wrong or immoral- its just outside of the scope of what you'd expect I think.

 

[allfoak]

Thats probably not a bad comparison at a guess. Depending on the party, its ideology and structure, I think you can get very different experiences.

The mainstream ones I think are like you sign up, pay a monthly fee, recieve a newsletter, maybe help out by leafletting during elections, go to meetings at local branches, etc. Some of them will have youth wings for younger members, student organisations on campuses, branches for specific trade unions or workplaces. My local conservative party runs community events as a sort of get together for its members. Some of the far left parties have conferences or annual events for their members to bond, discuss current events and to learn more about the party, its ideas and its activities. thats probably true of other parties as well.

Some parties expect more effort and activism from their members and try to train and educate their members up to be life long activists "for the cause". (Thats true of far left ones and I'd guess for far right ones also). These ones very clearly do resemble churches and cults because they have to keep their members energised and motivated- so getting people "addicted" to party activity by regular meetings, etc helps. That often produces the same kind of behaviour as religions but superfically for different reasons. As with cults its best to be cautious as you don't quite know what your getting into but "extreme" doesn't necessarily mean wrong or immoral- its just outside of the scope of what you'd expect I think.

That was excellent thank you.
I feel like i am very familiar with this entire scenario.
I have been in and around religious groups all of my life.
I have put my check into the plate every week, i have received newsletters, i have canvased communities "evangelizing".
I have organized youth groups and directed Christian summer camp activities.
I have lived with and studied several different cults in the northeast U.S.
This is all sounding a little too familiar.
Addicted?
Well that's the goal isn't it, to keep them coming back?

 

[Electus de Lumine]

I'm currently looking into what political party to join. Its tricky as I'm attracted to the more crazy left wing ones but know they are long-shots that would need decades of work and favourable conditions to pick up support. Mostly they are just anti-social political cults in all but name. so I wondered if anyone on RF is currently a member of a political party or if they have experiences worth sharing.

I was a member of the communist party of britain for a few months in 2015. Its one of the larger far left ones. I wasn't able to go to a meeting, etc as I live in a ultra-conservative rural area in the UK and commuting to major cities takes hours. I left after rereading the party programme "britain's road to socialism" and started to get the feeling it wasn't ambitious enough to do what it set out to do and wondering if it was such a good idea to be part of one that would. So beyond talking about politics online and reading alot of history and theoretical books my experiences are pretty limited. (Though I was on revleft.com for a while).

Any thoughts or experiences you want to share? Are you or have you ever been a member of a political party?

I am not a member but I usually vote libertarian.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm currently looking into what political party to join. Its tricky as I'm attracted to the more crazy left wing ones but know they are long-shots that would need decades of work and favourable conditions to pick up support. Mostly they are just anti-social political cults in all but name. so I wondered if anyone on RF is currently a member of a political party or if they have experiences worth sharing.

I was a member of the communist party of britain for a few months in 2015. Its one of the larger far left ones. I wasn't able to go to a meeting, etc as I live in a ultra-conservative rural area in the UK and commuting to major cities takes hours. I left after rereading the party programme "britain's road to socialism" and started to get the feeling it wasn't ambitious enough to do what it set out to do and wondering if it was such a good idea to be part of one that would. So beyond talking about politics online and reading alot of history and theoretical books my experiences are pretty limited. (Though I was on revleft.com for a while).

Any thoughts or experiences you want to share? Are you or have you ever been a member of a political party?

Of course, I belong to the Libertarian Party.
I invite you to join us!
Even if you disagree with us about many things,
that's no problem.....we almost always lose.

 

[Laika]

I like the leader but I think there are some major changes they need to make to have sway with the working class in Britain.

I don't imagine you're nearly as anti-communist as Canada or the United States but if you are even slightly similar than it must be pretty obscure.

I have a few family friends who are members of the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist).
They are all intelligent people and brought me over to state socialism and away from anarchism (bourgeois socialism).

However they are very pro-dprk and very pro-cuba.

It is hard for me to determine what to think of them because many of them have been to the DPRK several times to see for themselves, but they make claims about how the DPRK is a legitimate republic which is a large stretch to me to say the least.

I'm in the same situation. I'm willing to concede there is "another side" to the argument but I really don't know whether I'm going to like it or support it. The sheer poverty of anti-communist arguments is actually the worst thing for their side, but there's a difference between responding to demonstratably false assertions and treating north korea, etc as being held up as the "model" the world should follow. There isn't really an environment to have intellectually open moral discussions on it as its so taboo.

The CPGB(ML) often has the UK's north korean ambassador at its meetings, including the one who recently defected with his family. Its leader, harpel brar, is heavily involved in the UK's Stalin Society (being its former chair) and is the head of the international Stalin society. When I joined the communist party of britain (CPB) the relationship with "communist apologetics" was much weaker so I could put at the back of my mind. This one waves banners of Stalin in trafalgar square on may day and is directly involved in defences of him- so its hard to miss.

In a sense, thats part of its "charm" in that you can contemplate serious defences of the USSR, etc and don't dodge the tough questions. But disputing the morality and historical accuracy of views regarding stalin, etc is "sacred" ground in western societies because it so fundamentally challanges what is regarded as "human" values. Its the closet the left has got to holocaust denial and I'm wondering if I should walk right into it. I'd be surprised if it doesn't become a major issue so I'm taking my time on this one.

 

[Laika]

That was excellent thank you.
I feel like i am very familiar with this entire scenario.
I have been in and around religious groups all of my life.
I have put my check into the plate every week, i have received newsletters, i have canvased communities "evangelizing".
I have organized youth groups and directed Christian summer camp activities.
I have lived with and studied several different cults in the northeast U.S.
This is all sounding a little too familiar.
Addicted?
Well that's the goal isn't it, to keep them coming back?

Yeah, that sounds about right. My parents were both involved in the labour party and so I grew up on political conversations over the dinner table. I still remember a discussion before I went to secondary school about 7 or 8 am on the legitimacy of british democracy because it was "absurd" that I was even having it. (I mean who the **** does that?) I'm guessing you'll know the feeling from a religious perspective.

If I hadn't have been an atheist I'm pretty sure I would have had a religious conversion rather than a political one. Its just the way I turned out in satisfying my psychological need for meaning and purpose if you will.

 

[allfoak]

Yeah, that sounds about right. My parents were both involved in the labour party and so I grew up on political conversations over the dinner table. I still remember a discussion before I went to secondary school about 7 or 8 am on the legitimacy of british democracy because it was "absurd" that I was even having it. (I mean who the **** does that?) I'm guessing you'll know the feeling from a religious perspective.

If I hadn't have been an atheist I'm pretty sure I would have had a religious conversion rather than a political one. Its just the way I turned out in satisfying my psychological need for meaning and purpose if you will.

Yes,
Like i said in another post.
Being as opposite as we are there are likely many hidden similarities.
I think we are beginning to see that this is true.

 

[Laika]

Yes,
Like i said in another post.
Being as opposite as we are there are likely many hidden similarities.
I think we are beginning to see that this is true.

My dad takes me for car rides just to get out of the house. He will ussually use it as an oppurtunity to rant about a subject of his choice (mainly politics but he's more into history at the moment). I do my best just to humour him as I am "trapped" in the car: Nod, agree and Pretend I'm listening as I stare out the window.

Do you know that feeling?

 

[Kirran]

I think its true that the labour party members are more left-wing than the parliamentary party. So with ed milibands inner party election rule changes away from a federal model to a one man, one vote system- it just came out. Even without Corbyn, the loss of labours stronghold in Scotland was going to necessitate major shifts anyway.

From the far lefts point of view Corbyn's victory is perhaps best described as an oppurtunistic infection. As the labour right wing has collapsed and can't find solutions, the labour party has losts it immunity. so the trotskyists and many on the far left are drawn in sensing weakness. I don't think this is viable in the long-term as even the most dedicated activists are going to struggle to "colonise" the whole labour party as a host body in a short space of time. Given the sheer desperation of the left in the UK- its very understandable.

I have to admit I would much prefer a left-wing labour victory or a green party landslide than something from the far left. (I mean if Sanders or Jill Stein had won in the US elections I would have been thrilled-instead we got "the donald"). If one of the more mainstream parties could win Its just a bit more predictable, conservative and "safer". but if I weigh up all the long-term threats (climate change being the big one) both labour and green strike me as building a platform by going from one election to another trying to get more votes. They are thinking in very short-term view between elections and thats dangerously dissconnected from the big picture. That necessarily makes me more extreme because I think things will get worse and so more aggressive solutions will be needed.

I think the thread will be ok here (even though I'm sure your itching to use your new found mod powers. I remember the buzz. ).

And Thanks Btw. I'm struggling to know what to do but I am consuming alot of data and information to try and figure out where the best options are. I just wish there was something easier and ready-made avaliable.

True, the Scottish situation was always going to have quite an impact. But honestly I think a collapse to some degree was inevitable after Blair.

I suppose I don't see it in quite such parasitic terms, because Corbyn and co have the support of a strong majority of the party, and so better represent what they're about than the PLP did.

I agree that the parliamentary electoral system (and liberal democracy, really!) doesn't engender long-term thinking, but I think that ultimately this can be solved with sufficient devolution of power.

Already used my mod powers, thank you very much

As I'm sure you know, there isn't gonna be something ready-made. This is partly why I recommend the Labour Party, because joining it will let you operate within a space where your ideas fit into that broader sphere but in which you can still engage with a variety of people variously located in the left-wing. Communism is rare but not foreign in the Labour Party, and it'll be a great platform through which you can connect with other communists of the more pragmatic sort as well as have dialogue with other people who are more sympathetic. It wouldn't be some echo chamber though, which I think is positive as well.