Are you a demon?

[shunyadragon]

Do these scriptures that you say exist say that humans need to pray to God for any kind of benefits to be bestowed on them by God or they will end up suffering either in this life or in an afterlife?

You pray to God for God's will on earth and in their lives that thy may faithfully follow the guidance for peace and unity in their lives, in the family and the world.

O my God! O my God! Unite the hearts...

Omy God! O my God! Unite the hearts of Thy servants, and reveal to them Thy great purpose. May they follow Thy commandments and abide in Thy law. Help them, O God, in their endeavor, and grant them strength to serve Thee. O God! Leave them not to themselves, but guide their steps by the light of Thy knowledge, and cheer their hearts by Thy love. Verily, Thou art their Helper and their Lord.

Bahá’u’lláh

 

[robocop (actually)]

Imagine, you never truly experienced the things you remember

They never really happened to you

Your conscious experience actually started only a couple of days ago

You are a sprit or demon, possessing someone, but you don’t know this, you think you are them as by possessing them you have access to the memories stored in their brain - and you have no prior memories of your own existence

You are a spirit or demon who has displaced the original occupant of your body

But you don’t know this; you think you are the person you’re occupying

Your memories and sense of self are therefore bogus

And the original occupant of the body you occupy is no longer in control of it but are under the delusion that they are – they have no idea you are in control!

They experience your thoughts as their thoughts, your deeds as their deeds

Truly, they are possessed

Question: How can you know you are not a demon who is possessing someone?

You can only know that if there's a God He would have more respect for you than that.

 

[Shantanu]

You pray to God for God's will on earth and in their lives that thy may faithfully follow the guidance for peace and unity in their lives, in the family and the world.

O my God! O my God! Unite the hearts...

Omy God! O my God! Unite the hearts of Thy servants, and reveal to them Thy great purpose. May they follow Thy commandments and abide in Thy law. Help them, O God, in their endeavor, and grant them strength to serve Thee. O God! Leave them not to themselves, but guide their steps by the light of Thy knowledge, and cheer their hearts by Thy love. Verily, Thou art their Helper and their Lord.

Bahá’u’lláh

I do not like your God at all: he is very inconsiderate indeed. First you tell me that He has not time for me individually to listen to my please to be protected from the evil of poverty and UK State-organised persecution, and then He expects me to pray to Him as a servant to abide by His laws whatever they are for which I must study the Baha'i' scriptures which are in a language not my own. I am therefore much better off with my own God who does not expect me to pray to Him at all but who ensures that (so far at least) I have been getting my food, clothing, shelter and a good wife to look after my needs as I grow old and infirm. This is the least that He owes to the people that He created without them asking to be created into a world full of suffering. Further my God allows me to do my own duties and righteous actions towards myself, my family and society as I see fit through the process of satya-advaita or truth accommodation. For these benefits from my own God I pay devotional reverences to Him without ever being asked to do so when things are going well for me and these devotional reverences are in fact not necessary: that He has made clear to me through messages that I receive from Him through my clock checking method of consultation. My God delivers what I need as a created human being. He expects nothing in return, not even the devotional reverences.

Sorry, but I have therfore very good reasons for doubting that your God and my God are the same God, and I would never in a million years swop my God for yours for reasons cited above. My God is better than your God in terms of my own needs as a free human being seeking liberation.

 

[shunyadragon]

I do not like your God at all: he is very inconsiderate indeed. First you tell me that He has not time for me individually to listen to my please to be protected from the evil of poverty and UK State-organised persecution, and then He expects me to pray to Him as a servant to abide by His laws whatever they are for which I must study the Baha'i' scriptures which are in a language not my own. I am therefore much better off with my own God who does not expect me to pray to Him at all but who ensures that (so far at least) I have been getting my food, clothing, shelter and a good wife to look after my needs as I grow old and infirm. This is the least that He owes to the people that He created without them asking to be created into a world full of suffering. Further my God allows me to do my own duties and righteous actions towards myself, my family and society as I see fit through the process of satya-advaita or truth accommodation. For these benefits from my own God I pay devotional reverences to Him without ever being asked to do so when things are going well for me and these devotional reverences are in fact not necessary: that He has made clear to me through messages that I receive from Him through my clock checking method of consultation. My God delivers what I need as a created human being. He expects nothing in return, not even the devotional reverences.

Sorry, but I have therefore very good reasons for doubting that your God and my God are the same God, and I would never in a million years swop my God for yours for reasons cited above. My God is better than your God in terms of my own needs as a free human being seeking liberation.

Humans cannot swop Gods like children with marbles who oft claim my marbles are better than your marbles, and end up in a sandbox fight, as many humans do today.

Yes, it is convenient and comfortable to create your own God and make him bigger and better than all the other Gods.

 

[Shantanu]

Humans cannot swop Gods like children with marbles.

Because we cannot both be right are you therefore suggesting that I do not have the correct God concept?

 

[shunyadragon]

Because we cannot both be right are you therefore suggesting that I do not have the correct God concept?

No humans, including myself, can claim to no God personally, and have the absolutely correct God concept.

God is not a chess player
. . . with the white pieces.
God is the sea,
. . . and we are the fishes.

 

[Shantanu]

No humans, including myself, can claim to no God personally, and have the absolutely correct God concept.

God is not a chess player
. . . with the white pieces.
God is the sea,
. . . and we are the fishes.

Did Baha'u'llah claim to know God personally and thereby gained absolutely the correct God concept?

 

[74x12]

Imagine, you never truly experienced the things you remember

They never really happened to you

Your conscious experience actually started only a couple of days ago

You are a sprit or demon, possessing someone, but you don’t know this, you think you are them as by possessing them you have access to the memories stored in their brain - and you have no prior memories of your own existence

You are a spirit or demon who has displaced the original occupant of your body

But you don’t know this; you think you are the person you’re occupying

Your memories and sense of self are therefore bogus

And the original occupant of the body you occupy is no longer in control of it but are under the delusion that they are – they have no idea you are in control!

They experience your thoughts as their thoughts, your deeds as their deeds

Truly, they are possessed

Question: How can you know you are not a demon who is possessing someone?

In a sense, we all are spirits occupying bodies. We all have a human spirit/soul that is occupying these fleshly bodies. If we were to remove the spirit/soul. The body itself would be numb, stupid. It would be a dumb animal.

However, I wouldn't call us demons because the negative connotations. Just a confusion of terms.

 

[shunyadragon]

Did Baha'u'llah claim to know God personally and thereby gained absolutely the correct God concept?

Baha'u'llah was a manifestation of God and his relationship was Divine and not personal. Baha'u'llah was as closest to God as a human can get. We cannot define the relationship between the Manifestation of God and God. in terms of what is absolute, and God only knows, not fallible humans. We are not Manifestations of God like Abraham, Krishna, Jesus and Baha'u'llah.

Bottom line we as humans do not know what the absolute is.

 

[Shantanu]

Baha'u'llah was as closest to God as a human can get

I am interested in this statement: you obviously mean that humans can try and get close to God and thereby become all the God that one needs to in terms of all ones dealings with rest of humanity. I will agree with this. Further to become like God one must live through the process of truth accommodation in my view. God has no right, interest or ways to prevent this from happening because we have a free will to surrender to God through Truth Consciousness in order to determine our dharma. We can therefore all be avatars of God if we choose to do so.

I do not believe that there have at any time being manifestations of God as human incarnations because that is simply an impossibility for the reason that God is know-all omniscient and our own biology makes us finite in terms of the knowledge and wisdom that we can gain as human beings. All we can try and do as humans is to survive in this existence with our dignity in tact by following the truth path because truth prevails in accordance with the Hindu shloka Satyameva Jayate from Mundaka Upanishad: satyamev jayate nana rtam, satyena patha vittoto devayana, yena akramanasya hepta kama, Yatra tat satasya paramam nidhanam. Meaning Truth always wins not untruth, by truth seers living like gods attain the highest form of living and blissful existence. This is further described as satchitananda or Truth-Consciousness-Bliss. That is the essence of Hinduism and the purpose of our existence.

The bottom line therefore is that only we humans can have desires to be like God, and God has no business to interfere in human affairs unless the human being asks God for help in dealing with ills such as poverty and persecution.

But as I said we have different ideas of God concept and I do not accept your concept of God as an unknowable Entity that manifests as a human by taking over the reigns of the human mind when it is not asked for. I surrender to God for all my duties and righteous actions.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

God will make that clear to you in the incidents that occur in your life that would show that you are being protected by Him or are the beneficiary of inordinant good luck as serendipity.

True, but what if it's your destiny to be royally screwed over, and serving God might suck for you even if it helps others? What if it even doesn't really help others, but is a necessary plot point to get to the next plot point? I mean, Darth Vader only does bad things because the script says so and needs other events to play out.

But couldn't Satan (or some lesser entity) fool someone into thinking they are protected/possessed by God whereas they are actually being protected/possessed by him?

But can Satan truly do something against God's will? In Job, everything he did was on God's command.

There is a story called Journey to the West, where a monkey god named Sun Wukong rebels against heaven and out of desperation, the gods ask Buddha to come over to China and deal with him. Buddha holds out his hand and says that if Sun can hop out of his palm, Sun can take over the gods in heaven. Sun leaps off, flies to a distant land, pees on a rock pillar, only to discover the rock pillar is Buddha's finger and it's impossible to leave the hand of an omnipresence.

No matter what we do, fate is fate.

This dharma is determined through the process of satya-advaita or truth accommodation, which ultimately seeks God's answers on whether you are on the right track.

Yes, truth is the only real "rock-solid foundation" upon which we should build our houses.

If God has truly had a grip over your truths you live happily and at peace with yourself and with whatever you have in your life because you are a fully contended human being in satchitananda.

I feel that's kind of irresponsible. There are plenty of depressed believers. Job was sinless in the eyes of God and look how THAT turned out.

Demanding personal individual answers from God is egocentric unrealistic micromanagement. God does not micromanage.

Agreed. I feel that God goes over general gists. While I pray for certain things, I also accept that a macro-being of some sort wouldn't exactly have me on a priority list.

 

[Shantanu]

I feel that's kind of irresponsible. There are plenty of depressed believers. Job was sinless in the eyes of God and look how THAT turned out.

I am not familar with Job's story but will say this. One must seek to consult with God at all times: sometimes He answers, not always. but you have done your duty. That is the most important thing in satya-advaita or truth accommodation.