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Featured Are you a born sinner? Is anyone?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by We Never Know, Mar 27, 2021.

  1. Etritonakin

    Etritonakin Well-Known Member

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    We are not guilty of anything at birth -but it doesn't take too long before we break some law of God.
    It is inevitable -or at least very near it -that we will sin.
    Jesus died for the reason you stated, but we are required to do things to essentially have that apply to us -such as repentance and asking for forgiveness, baptism for the remission of sins, receiving God's spirit "of power, love and of a sound mind" which empowers us to truly overcome sin -actual and spiritual -and begin to have a Godlike mind.
    There is forgiveness -but more importantly the changing of our nature.
    We are literally somewhere between animals and God -and we must continually move toward being like God.
    Our ways need to change before we can get off this rock and not do all this anywhere else.
    We are to inhabit and create throughout the universe (search formed to be inhabited) as immortals, but that will require willing and incorruptible adherence to God's government so it does not become a miserable mess.

    As it says, the mortal must put on immortality -the corruptible must put on incorruption. He will complete our perfection, but we must put in effort.
    If we sin, we need to confess and ask for forgiveness -always -until we are made perfect.
     
    #101 Etritonakin, Mar 28, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
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  2. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    yeah.....and however

    it was the serpent in the garden that pointed out to Eve....
    and you will become as heaven
    if you partake of the fruit

    it was the Carpenter who gave instruction....
    Be thou perfect.....as your Father in heaven is perfect

    which side of the fence are we on?
     
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  3. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    If there are big claims about God, soul and prophets etc., and no evidence, then this is what I am led to.
    Yeah, I agree, the perceived world is only an illusion (which includes Aupmanyav too).
    Aupmanyav is a scam at one level of observation and is Brahman at another level. You too are that. All things are that.
    Like you said 'So'ham', 'Tattwamasi', 'Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma'.
    You get it but then you say different things. In your heart you too know what scams are, then why do you return to scams?
     
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  4. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    The heart knows scams, still @stvdv returned to RF to reply

    Until body dies, body is bound to be part of this maya... no worry
    @stvdvRFend
     
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  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Yeah, no worry. Have a nice RFtime. :D
     
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  6. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Of corse you are welcome to believe that Adam and Eve is some metaphorical meaning.
    And that original sin does not exist.

    But again, from the Bible's point of view, Adam and Eve did exist, and they died, and their ages were even recorded.
    Their children were recorded etc.
    Now what metaphorical meaning can this have, except that Adam and Eve lived, they died being over 800 years of age, they had children, and their names were recorded.

    Please answer the above if possible.
    Secondly, if you do not believe in original sin, it would mean that you MUST accept that the whole Universe is without corruption.
    This includes death, pain, disease, suffering...because why would your god create you in this sorrowfull state?
    if you say you were born without sin, tell me why did you aged every second after you were born.
    Tell me why you are busy dying?

    The only reason why you are ageing and dying, is because your natural existance is not perfect, but determined to die!
    If you were perfect in your Natural existance, you will be immortal, but you are not.

    Now, this is where the Gospel is different than all other religions.
    It promises "Eternal Life" by changeing your sinfull Natural existance into one that is perfect that does not deteriorate.

    You see, this is the difference between Jesus who gives eternal life, and all the orher religions that presumes there will be a ressurection, where we will raise as we were alive on Earth.
    The Gospel is clear, you will when accepting Jesus as your saviour, and ask forgiveness to Him, receive a new spiritual covering.
    One which is able to stand before God.
    those that do not have this covering, will in their Natural and spiritual nature keep on burning, wherever they are in life hereafter, because God is omnipresent, and your sinfull nature will keep on burning.
    This was why God created a place removed from the rest which is called hell, where all these souls in torment will be collected.
    far enough removed to not be seen by the souls who chose God as their friend.

    To end off, if it was not for the Bible's literal interperetation, Newton would have never developed his scientific models, and the Western world would never achieved the scientific results we have today.
    Therefore, to say the Bible must be interpereted metaphorically, is an error.
     
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  7. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    How so, if the Day of the Lord came everything would be burned up. Jesus Christ is the narrow way, the world system is the wide path.
     
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  8. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. But of course God knew that He would be rejected and that was factored in. God used evil acts for good. It was the gospel that God had planned for the Jews and the gentiles. Many Jews accepted Jesus.
     
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  9. Suave

    Suave Active Member

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    As an infant, I lacked the cognitive self-awareness in order to have been rightfully convicted of any wrongdoing.
     
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  10. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    So Jesus was just faking sincerity in going first to the Jews with the "message" they killed him for? When Jesus scolded the Jews for rejecting the original Gospel, he was just acting? And when God the Father punished Israel for rejecting the Gospel and killing the Son, It was all a big convoluted, double minded act?
     
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  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Without a sinless Jesus to balance the Scales of Justice for us there would be No hope of a resurrection.
    No hope of future life for the dead because we can't resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone who can resurrect us. Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18.
    True Jesus died for all, but please notice the word ' IF ' found at 1 John 1:7.
    " IF " we are walking in light (spiritual light) .......
    So, although Jesus died for all does Not mean all will follow Jesus.
    This is why Matthew 20:28 says that Jesus' ransom covers MANY and does Not say all.
     
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  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    However, because of inherited adamic sin ( imperfection from fallen father Adam ) is why we end up sinning.
    An innocent infant does Not grow up to became an innocent adult.
    If we could stop sinning we would Not die, because we can't stop sinning is why we die.
     
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  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Because 'Earth abides forever' ( Ecclesiastes 1:4 B ) everything will Not be burned up.
    Earth is Not at fault, and that is why Revelation 11:18 B says God will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth.
    The 'executional words from Jesus' mouth' does Not breathe fire but execution for the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15.
     
  14. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”
    ‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10-13‬ ‭NIV‬‬
     
  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Those verses about being burned up are metaphorical, not literal.

    Jesus Christ was once the narrow way when few people believed in Him, but Jesus Christ is no longer the narrow way because about 30% of the world population is now Christians.

    Given that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, Christianity is now "the wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."

    Just as Christianity was the small gate and the narrow road that led to eternal life in the first centuries when there were few Christians, the Baha'i Faith is now the small gate and the narrow road that leads to eternal life in the first centuries since its inception.

    Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

    Many or most people do not believe in the Baha’i Faith because it is the new religion at the narrow gate. Below are the primary reasons why most people do not believe in a new religion.

    The religion at the narrow gate is the religion God wants us to find and follow, and it is the gate that leads to eternal life. But it is not that easy for most people to find this gate because most people are steeped in religious tradition or attached to what they already believe. If they do not have a religion, most people are suspicious of the new religion and the new Messenger. If they are atheists they do not like the idea of Messengers of God or they think they are all phonies. If they are irreligious they have become fatigued by the already established religions and thus just find it more annoying that a new one has popped up.

    It is difficult to get through the narrow gate because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not normally embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow the broad road that is easiest for them to travel.
     
  16. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    When Scripture makes sense, seek no other sense. Clearly says in Peter and literally going to happen like that. Revelation says a New Heaven and Earth. Be a good idea to line up with the Scriptures instead of twisting them to match a false view.
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Revelation says a New Heaven and Earth. It would be a good idea to know what that actually means instead of assuming you know.
     
  18. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    I do
     
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  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    All Christians BELIEVE that they do but they cannot all be right since they do not agree.
    Logic 101.
     
  20. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    The Bible is my book and Word of God, I know what it means and understand what God
    is saying.
     
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