Are you a better person now due to your faith?

[ChristineM]

Why cant your answer be clarified?



No, the laws began, just like the universe began. But, it cant just go poof from nothing. How can that be?



Im not saying i know. I am saying that i know the God hypothesis is the best explanation.



Why is my view of research a cop out?

Heres how i research.

1, ask a question.
2, seek multiple answers.
3, think it through myself.
4, ask more questions.

Whats wrong with this approach?



No, thats why im asking you to break it down for me.



Ok....

Can you clarify how you think god dun it with magic to someone who considers the abrahamic god to be a bronze age myth?

Your evidence for your claim? As far as is understood the laws of this universe resolved after this universe formed

How can a myth, a guess be a better explanation than extrapolating from observed phenomena?

Absolutely nothing so long as you stick to it without the "benefit" of confirmation bias.

And you know it can never be broken down

 

[Jumi]

Yes, I'm better now than I was before. Could I have been as good or even better without it? It's possible, but for me it works so I have no complaints.

 

[ChristineM]

Yes, I'm better now than I was before. Could I have been as good or even better without it? It's possible, but for me it works so I have no complaints.

No matter what your faith (or lack of it) you can say no more than that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thats just the thing right there, you misunderstand my view. I do not believe God poofed into existence from nothing.

I believe God always existed. I define God as eternal, infinite, conciousness, intelligence.

Splitting hairs, I think, but okay:

Since you seem to be okay with at least some things having always existed, what reason do you have to say that universes can't?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

What kind of foolishness is that?

So, the things you have faith in, you dont really believe? You just pretend?

Yes, that's why I don't have faith.

 

[Jollybear]

Yes, that's why I don't have faith.

You do have faith. Everyone has faith.....in something. Your no exception.

 

[Jollybear]

Can you clarify how you think god dun it with magic to someone who considers the abrahamic god to be a bronze age myth?

God did not do it with magic. He did it with his energy and intelligence. Thats a natural thing.

It being done from nothing, thats where the real magic plays in.

Your evidence for your claim? As far as is understood the laws of this universe resolved after this universe formed

Ok, so, how did the laws or universe form?

How can a myth, a guess be a better explanation than extrapolating from observed phenomena?

Intelligent design is extrapolating from observed phenomonon.

Absolutely nothing so long as you stick to it without the "benefit" of confirmation bias.

Theres no confirmation bias going on. Its all fantasy in your mind.

And you know it can never be broken down

And why not? Because its not true?

 

[Jollybear]

Splitting hairs, I think, but okay:

Since you seem to be okay with at least some things having always existed, what reason do you have to say that universes can't?

Now where getting somewhere.

The reason i dont adhere to the universe always have existed is due to infinite regression problem.

Ill illustrate it like this: lets take a freight train. You got hundreds of trailers connected going down a line of tracks.

Now, pretend this train is the universe. Each trailer is a cause to another cause. On and on down the line.

Now, in the case of real trains theres a first train, which is the driver area. Then theres an end, which is the last trailer.

However, in the case of infinite regression, you have a train that does not have a starting point.

So, lets say each trailer is numbered. Like, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and on and on and on.

Well, if theres not a first, then which one will be numbered number 1? Aaaahhh, see the conundrum?

Now, lets go further, the train starts to move. Well, wait, how will it start? Start WHERE? start WHEN? The timeline goes infinite into the past. So, it will take forever for all events to take place, since theres no starting point.

You see this?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Now where getting somewhere.

The reason i dont adhere to the universe always have existed is due to infinite regression problem.

Ill illustrate it like this: lets take a freight train. You got hundreds of trailers connected going down a line of tracks.

Now, pretend this train is the universe. Each trailer is a cause to another cause. On and on down the line.

Now, in the case of real trains theres a first train, which is the driver area. Then theres an end, which is the last trailer.

However, in the case of infinite regression, you have a train that does not have a starting point.

So, lets say each trailer is numbered. Like, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and on and on and on.

Well, if theres not a first, then which one will be numbered number 1? Aaaahhh, see the conundrum?

Now, lets go further, the train starts to move. Well, wait, how will it start? Start WHERE? start WHEN? The timeline goes infinite into the past. So, it will take forever for all events to take place, since theres no starting point.

You see this?

And you think that saying God always existed solves this "problem?"

 

[ChristineM]

God did not do it with magic. He did it with his energy and intelligence. Thats a natural thing.

It being done from nothing, thats where the real magic plays in.



Ok, so, how did the laws or universe form?



Intelligent design is extrapolating from observed phenomonon.



Theres no confirmation bias going on. Its all fantasy in your mind.



And why not? Because its not true?

Your evidence of god magicing the universe out of nothing not using magic is what? Can you explain in easy to swallow bites please?

Quantum physics is not magic.

Said this right at the begining. Seems you dont want to listen, they formed from/using the properties of the universe.

No it isnt, ID is a guess based on faith in a bronze age book topped off with deliberate ignorance.

Yes there is, you are indoctrinated into god did it with magic to the extent of even considering an alternative.

Ok, break down how god dun it. You make the claim you can break down complex subjects, i have asked before and you ignored the question so i ask again. Ill wait for the excuses.

 

[Jollybear]

And you think that saying God always existed solves this "problem?"

Yes, God always existing solves this problem because God is static, unlike the universe. And God has intention in order to create.

 

[Jollybear]

Your evidence of god magicing the universe out of nothing not using magic is what? Can you explain in easy to swallow bites please?

Yes, i can explain how God done it.

Close your eyes and create a scenery in your mind. Perhaps an ocean and mountains and birds flying and a sale boat.

Got that? Ok, how did you create that? You did it by concious intent and intelligence and imagination. And this creation is within your mind.

Likewise, God is infinite, so, the universe which is finite, is within God. God created it within his mind, using concious intent.

Quantum physics is not magic.

Ok, what is it then? Break er down.

Said this right at the begining. Seems you dont want to listen, they formed from/using the properties of the universe.

Oh im listening alright. Theres no problem with my listening ability, theres only a problem with your explanatory ability. Break it down.

No it isnt, ID is a guess based on faith in a bronze age book topped off with deliberate ignorance.

And that statement.....is.....ignorence.

Yes there is, you are indoctrinated into god did it with magic to the extent of even considering an alternative.

Im considering your alternative, but your not making it very understandable, so why should i eccept it?

 

[ChristineM]

Yes, i can explain how God done it.

Close your eyes and create a scenery in your mind. Perhaps an ocean and mountains and birds flying and a sale boat.

Got that? Ok, how did you create that? You did it by concious intent and intelligence and imagination. And this creation is within your mind.

Likewise, God is infinite, so, the universe which is finite, is within God. God created it within his mind, using concious intent.



Ok, what is it then? Break er down.



Oh im listening alright. Theres no problem with my listening ability, theres only a problem with your explanatory ability. Break it down.



And that statement.....is.....ignorence.



Im considering your alternative, but your not making it very understandable, so why should i eccept it?

I said explain, not make up petty stories that make you feel good.

If thats how you want the universe breaking down well... Clost your eyes... Poof.. look universe.

Your evidence for the claim god is infinite please.

It is the nature of sub atomic particles. Consider it broken down.

The problem with your comprehension of subjects that challenge your sensibilities

Nope, that statement is factial, perhaps you are unaware of the difference.

Tiz up to you.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, God always existing solves this problem because God is static, unlike the universe. And God has intention in order to create.

I don't see how that solves anything. You'll have to step me through your thought process there. Exactly how did you conclude:

- if something always existed, it creates an infinite regress "problem" (whatever this problem is supposed to be)
- if something always existed but is "static," it doesn't have this "problem."

And meanwhile, you've created more problems for yourself, since something static can't do dynamic things, like engage in creation.

 

[ratiocinator]

Yes, God always existing solves this problem because God is static, unlike the universe. And God has intention in order to create.

There's a quaintly Newtonian view of time in all these types of argument.

Just as an example, if you take general relativity seriously, then the universe is a four dimensional object. Time is just a direction through it (and not even exactly the same direction for every observer). The time-like directions may or may not be finite in the past or future directions but the universe (4-d object) just is - and is entirely static...

 

[Deeje]

Thats just the thing right there, you misunderstand my view. I do not believe God poofed into existence from nothing.

I believe God always existed. I define God as eternal, infinite, conciousness, intelligence.

Excellent description of the Intelligent Designer of all things. He brought everything into existence, and all of it is finite in some way.....but the Creator himself is an infinite being, beyond the comprehension of mere mortals who feel the need to quantify everything within the range of their own experience and limited intelligence.. As if their puny tests could reveal such magnitude.

 

[Jollybear]

There's a quaintly Newtonian view of time in all these types of argument.

Just as an example, if you take general relativity seriously, then the universe is a four dimensional object. Time is just a direction through it (and not even exactly the same direction for every observer). The time-like directions may or may not be finite in the past or future directions but the universe (4-d object) just is - and is entirely static...

How can the universe be static?

 

[Jollybear]

I said explain, not make up petty stories that make you feel good.

That was the explanation.

If thats how you want the universe breaking down well... Clost your eyes... Poof.. look universe.

Your funny.

In that case, you just described my point. It would come from a mind.

Your evidence for the claim god is infinite please.

Its just a logical assumption. If God is finite, then he is like the universe, even a part of it. He has to transcend the universe. This means he must be infinite.

It is the nature of sub atomic particles. Consider it broken down.

So the nature of subatomic particles is that there nothing? Do i understand?

The problem with your comprehension of subjects that challenge your sensibilities

Oh, i see.

 

[ratiocinator]

How can the universe be static?

I tried to explain. I'm not sure what you're not getting. In relativity, time and space combine into space-time. If you imagine space as just two dimensions (a plane) then space-time would be a 3 dimensional block. Imagine time to be the vertical axis, with (say) the future in the up direction. The important thing is that change over time is the same as distance in the up direction, so the whole of space-time is unchanging. Things within it experience change but not the universe as a whole.

Part of the evidence that things are like this is that there is no absolute now - or any absolute moment that applies to every observer simultaneity itself is relative. Also different observers have different time axes - they all (in our analogy) point in the up direction but can be at angles to each other (that's why we get time dilation).

 

[ChristineM]

That was the explanation.



Your funny.

In that case, you just described my point. It would come from a mind.



Its just a logical assumption. If God is finite, then he is like the universe, even a part of it. He has to transcend the universe. This means he must be infinite.



So the nature of subatomic particles is that there nothing? Do i understand?



Oh, i see.

It did not meet any criteria of explanation, it was simply a recital of opinion.

I try but it married very well with your "explanation" .and reality does not come from the mind

Please demonstrate the logic in giving properties to a myth?

What? No but there can be nothing.
Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing
You dont need to read it, far to heavy, its just a demonstration of how there can be nothing.

At last. Well done