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Are we wasting our lives?

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
They are all good valid points.

Reacting to what we do know is important. I see that can be neglected very easily, in both faith and science.

A faith example would to be aware of a law, know that it is important, but to dismiss it as not applicable.
But why would one dismiss it as not applicable if they knew it was important? This sounds like a straw man to me.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I am not here to change your reality. It is yours.

I can only say that I have found that reality is more than our material senses. Mind is not connected to body.

I love movies like avatar that explore the greater mind, the fight against our lower self for the higher collective goal of mind.

Regards Tony

Reality :
1 the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
2 the state or quality of having existence or substance.

No mind involved
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And how do you make that determination?



This is your interpretation of science, but not science itself. Science is agnostic as to the supernatural.



Cool, do you have any evidence for your side of the debate?

The evidence I would produce is the Religious scriptures given by people such as Krishna, Zoroaster, Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah.

That is lifetimes of study available and they point us towards the purpose.

I see science is gifted in this age to discover realities hidden within creation. Discoveries that will aid us to understand what it really means to Love.

I would ask what is the point of anything if we can not Love?

Regards Tony
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
This thread is in Science and Religion as it is about Truth and how each of us chooses to find, 'what is Truth'?
Hello Tony.
I believe in 'living' every minute, hour and day that is left to me.
Absolute and Total Truth about everything is far beyond me, and so I will take a model boat to the park pond, hold my wife close and enjoy our little hound-dogs. Enough.....

I seem to attract quite a few warnings for trying to convert people to my faith, even when I say repeatedly that I can not, do not have the ability to convert any person and do not want to convert any person.
As a Deist I don't feel any great desire to sell it to anybody else, so I guess I'm fairly well protected from breaking the 'No selling' rule on RF. :)

My stance is that I acknowledge a higher power that gifts knowledge to any heart that power chooses to give knowledge to. My part is to share the knowledge given to my heart. The issue for me and me only, is to determine what is the gifted part and what is from my own self.
If I could gain some knowledge now it would be how to spot bargains at boot fairs, because any greater amount of truth would be wasted on me. :D

Thus the topic of the thread 'Are we wasting our lives'. To give it context from a faith side, it is said the entire purpose of our lives and of all knowledge is so that we can come to know and Love God. Our own choices and actions determine if we progress towards that goal, in this life.
No. As a Deist I think that God is everything and so this tiny micro-minute particle of God just wants to watch his wife (another tiny micro-minute part of God) moving. Fascinating!

The topic.

The apex of knowledge for both science and faith, is to know and Love God.

If this is not our goal, are we wasting this life?

If this is our goal, are our own actions wasting this life?

So again, this is about what is Truth?
All the World has its own ideas..... I'm just content with the what Fate and chaos will bring each day.


The thread has no intent but to explore what is truth and my side of the debate is that Truth is all of God.

Regards Tony

You know that I reverse almost everything that Bahai claims or promises and then I see truth, but that's my truth. You must follow yours, Tony.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But why would one dismiss it as not applicable if they knew it was important? This sounds like a straw man to me.

What is an addiction then?

A smoker knows it is important to health not to smoke, but they still do. Many examples can be given how people can justify to themselves and dismiss what they know is important.

Materialism is such an addiction, we partake of it, but when the right way is given, we can still partake of the addiction. So an example as a Baha'i, which is applicable to all given laws of Faith, is knowing that Baha'u'llah has said the Laws are the only true elixer for humanity in this age. As a Baha'i we know this is extreamly important. Then we have life and we know that many fall short of what was asked of us.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hello Tony.
I believe in 'living' every minute, hour and day that is left to me.
Absolute and Total Truth about everything is far beyond me, and so I will take a model boat to the park pond, hold my wife close and enjoy our little hound-dogs. Enough....

What a wonderful life. I wish for you many such events, as you have envisioned

Regards Tony
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
But what we want it to be is part of what it "actually" is.

Just sayin'.
Sure , that's a valid point.

Like even when people say we're living in a simulation for instance, there is the reality of actually being in a simulation, and the reality of one thinking they are actually living in a simulation. Both can be true when it's approached in context, even if the statements are contradictory to each other.

Probably why I like Dogen Zenji a lot. ;O]
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You know that I reverse almost everything that Bahai claims or promises and then I see truth, but that's my truth. You must follow yours, Tony.

I see that is the greater Truth, it is that we have choice.

Choice is what enables us to consider science.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Reality :
1 the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
2 the state or quality of having existence or substance.

No mind involved

My reality is that the spirit actually exists and the body will decay. That the brain plays a very brief part in life.

It is what it is. The dreamworld has going haywire lately.

Regards Tony
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
The evidence I would produce is the Religious scriptures given by people such as Krishna, Zoroaster, Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah.

That is lifetimes of study available and they point us towards the purpose.

Abraham, Buddha, and Jesus didnt give us any Scriptures, their followers/descendants did (not sure about Krishna or Zoroaster). Where in any of those scriptures is a God demonstrated? I see lots of claims in scriptures, not much actual evidence or demonstration.

I see science is gifted in this age to discover realities hidden within creation. Discoveries that will aid us to understand what it really means to Love.

I would ask what is the point of anything if we can not Love?

Regards Tony

I can agree love is quite important and gives our life meaning. But love doesn't require a God.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
This thread is in Science and Religion as it is about Truth and how each of us chooses to find, 'what is Truth'?

So again, this is about what is Truth?

The thread has no intent but to explore what is truth and my side of the debate is that Truth is all of God.

What you are saying is that, in your own elevated opinion of yourself, you pretend to know what Truth is.

Anyone can make that assertion. In fact, many people assert that their version of the knowledge of God is Truth. Since they are all different, they cannot all be correct. The religion that you base your beliefs on is just one more in a long line of superstitious myths foisted upon the public. Your religion was born out out Islam but, in essence, is not much different from Scientology, LDS, JW, Baptist, Catholic, etc ad nauseam.


The apex of knowledge for both science and faith, is to know and Love God.

Why would you make such an obviously untrue assertion? Is doing things like that part of what Bahai teaches or do you just do that on your own? Perhaps, some other Bahais would like to chime in on that.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
From what I have found, I see science is a gift from God so that in turn we can discover all that is of God.

I find it interesting that science can discard evidence beyond the senses as unscientific, or indeed put a label on it that it is not a way to truth.

Regards Tony


Care to provide an example of 'evidence beyond the senses'?
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
What you are saying is that, in your own elevated opinion of yourself, you pretend to know what Truth is.

Anyone can make that assertion. In fact, many people assert that their version of the knowledge of God is Truth. Since they are all different, they cannot all be correct. The religion that you base your beliefs on is just one more in a long line of superstitious myths foisted upon the public. Your religion was born out out Islam but, in essence, is not much different from Scientology, LDS, JW, Baptist, Catholic, etc ad nauseam.




Why would you make such an obviously untrue assertion? Is doing things like that part of what Bahai teaches or do you just do that on your own? Perhaps, some other Bahais would like to chime in on that.
Plus its this easily accessible excuse for you the Person to get discounted. Only Humanists get to keep their humanity. There's a particular word for having any religious force over anybody else, and wanting them to share something with you. Probably evangelization.
5 of 30 contacts hear from you on religion when they are Already religious and this is Sharing, or they asked with interest about angels or something and that's responsive, or act like you go around and did anything bossy to religious people.
Life's a big waste of time about professors saying you have inappropriate actions to students, ya we're a bunch of young'uns and we are feeling ourselves for college no, who send you to counselors who hear nothing about it, no, who send you packing to whoever supposed to know how you're already punished everywhere about something being wrong.
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I can agree love is quite important and gives our life meaning. But love doesn't require a God.

Love could be the key to all that we can find, faith and science. It could be that Loveis the force behind what is creation, I see that is logical, after all love is given as a foundation for birth. (Those waters have been muddied somewhat over the last 100 yeats or so.)

Why would we think that process is not based in an intelligent Mind? I remember reading an article by a leading gynecologist about how once he though how imperfect creation was when he considered the womans body and the birth process. He thought it was all set up so wrong. After years of study and experience, he came to know how perfect the body and process was for the child to get everthing that was required for life in the process of its birth.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why would you make such an obviously untrue assertion? Is doing things like that part of what Bahai teaches or do you just do that on your own? Perhaps, some other Bahais would like to chime in on th

I did not make the assertion, it is recorded, I read it, considered it and have shared it.

It has become part of my reality and I will quote the sources if you wish.

Regards Tony
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Love could be the key to all that we can find, faith and science. It could be that Loveis the force behind what is creation,

Maybe it could be, but is it? How would we test that idea to see if it's true?

I see that is logical, after all love is given as a foundation for birth. (Those waters have been muddied somewhat over the last 100 yeats or so.)

I don't know what this means. Do you mean people have children because of love? This can be true, but certainly isn't universal (and hasn't ever been, that I can tell).

Why would we think that process is not based in an intelligent Mind?

Because the processes of sexual reproduction exist among much simpler lifeforms who don't have anywhere near the mental complexity humans do. Why would you think that process does require an intelligent mind?

I remember reading an article by a leading gynecologist about how once he though how imperfect creation was when he considered the womans body and the birth process. He thought it was all set up so wrong. After years of study and experience, he came to know how perfect the body and process was for the child to get everthing that was required for life in the process of its birth.

Regards Tony

This reminds me of the Douglas Adams story about the puddle of water that comes to life. It looks around says, my goodness, look at how perfectly I fill this hole in the ground! Every single nook and cranny, filled just perfectly! This hole must have been designed for me!

The truth is, life fits the hole it is given. Conditions seem "perfect" because those are the conditions lifeforms have been forced to conform to for millions of years of life, death, reproduction, and mutation.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
The apex of knowledge for both science and faith, is to know and Love God.
Not at all. Science has nothing whatever to do with "loving," and certainly nothing to do with anything that is outside of its capacity to examine.
If this is not our goal, are we wasting this life?

If this is our goal, are our own actions wasting this life?
If "knowing and loving God" is the purpose of your life, then you must admit that it is a purpose imposed upon you, not something that you have freely chosen. Thus, if you don't do so, then you are disappointing what- or whoever imposed that purpose on you.

My purposes are my own, and I waste nothing of my life in pursuing them.
So again, this is about what is Truth?

The thread has no intent but to explore what is truth and my side of the debate is that Truth is all of God.

Regards Tony
Truth is that which is true, nothing else. The truth is that that which we call mass has the property of being attracted to itself, so it is true that two masses are attracted to one another. This is 100% verifiable, and minutely measurable.

Untestable beliefs may or may not be "truth," but given how many of them there are, and how many of them are possible, statisically it is wildly unlikely that any particular untestable belief is true.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Care to provide an example of 'evidence beyond the senses'?
I still could never figure that part out. Imagine if we didn't have any senses.

God wouldn't even be in the picture much less acknowledged.

How people even come up with that is pretty bizarre but not so much when you think of one's imagination and Fantasies that are already based off the senses.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The evidence I would produce is the Religious scriptures given by people such as Krishna, Zoroaster, Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah.

That is lifetimes of study available and they point us towards the purpose.

I see science is gifted in this age to discover realities hidden within creation. Discoveries that will aid us to understand what it really means to Love.

I would ask what is the point of anything if we can not Love?

Regards Tony

.. and there it is ... #23

Waiting for it.
 
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