Are We the First?

[Polymath257]

That is, are we the first species on Earth that has had an industrial civilization?

And would we be able to figure it out if we are not?

If We Weren’t the First Industrial Civilization on Earth, Would We Ever Know? - MIT Technology Review - Pocket

How would it affect your views of humanity if we *aren't* the first industrial civilization on Earth?

 

[shunyadragon]

That is, are we the first species on Earth that has had an industrial civilization?

And would we be able to figure it out if we are not?

If We Weren’t the First Industrial Civilization on Earth, Would We Ever Know? - MIT Technology Review - Pocket

How would it affect your views of humanity if we *aren't* the first industrial civilization on Earth?

It is the conclusion of the article that we can tell, and we are the only Industrial civilization in the history of the earth.

The better question is if we can find another civilization, and possible of another industrial civilization. It is possible as we find other habitable planets we may be able to detect signatures in the atmosphere of an industrial civilization.

 

[McBell]

That is, are we the first species on Earth that has had an industrial civilization?

I do not know

And would we be able to figure it out if we are not?

Perhaps

If We Weren’t the First Industrial Civilization on Earth, Would We Ever Know? - MIT Technology Review - Pocket

From the article:

"if an industrial civilization had existed in the past, what traces would it have left?"​

Pyramids?
Stone hedge?
Those creepy statues on Easter Island?

How would it affect your views of humanity if we *aren't* the first industrial civilization on Earth?

would do nothing to my beliefs

 

[Agnostisch]

I would imagine that a Civilizations that had nuclear weapons would be detectable through isotope signatures for several million years. Iodine 129 has a half life of 16 million years, so excursions from background level should be detectable for at least 30 million years in sedimentary rock.

 

[MNoBody]

That is, are we the first species on Earth that has had an industrial civilization?

And would we be able to figure it out if we are not?

If We Weren’t the First Industrial Civilization on Earth, Would We Ever Know? - MIT Technology Review - Pocket

How would it affect your views of humanity if we *aren't* the first industrial civilization on Earth?

anomalous artifacts which do not fit the official time line narrative are a common occurrence in archaeology, they usually get filed away someplace and never get studied or displayed
which is one thing
and the megalithic ruins from some ancient time which are so far impossible to replicate all with their own curiosities [like diamond tool cut marks, polish, precision, etc]
evidence of ancient canals all over the globe, radioactive hot spots in India which bear striking similarities to bomb explosion sites. replete with craters, etc.
just these few brief items point to the possibility of some "other" type of occupation of this planet by intelligent beings with abilities that surpass our own.
certainly the truth about these things has not been either learned or disclosed about these things.
and would such disclosure affect my belief system?
well, to some degree, yes, how could such an event not? but not too much I would surmise from what I know right now....but who knows, it depends on what kind of revelation would hypothetically occur, wouldn't it?

 

[Polymath257]

From the article:

"if an industrial civilization had existed in the past, what traces would it have left?"​

Pyramids?
Stone hedge?
Those creepy statues on Easter Island?

If we are talking timespans of tens of millions of years, none of those is likely to last. The pyramids and Stonehenge are less than 5 thousand years old. That is a blip when talking about 10 million years.

 

[McBell]

If we are talking timespans of tens of millions of years, none of those is likely to last. The pyramids and Stonehenge are less than 5 thousand years old. That is a blip when talking about 10 million years.

Well,
You just had to go and ruin a perfectly good reply with logic and reason....

I have no other choice but to say "I do not know".

Mostly because I do not believe that GodDidIt.

 

[Polymath257]

It is the conclusion of the article that we can tell, and we are the only Industrial civilization in the history of the earth.

That wasn't the impression I got from the article. It gave a few signatures that a civilization like ours would likely produce, but then noted those signatures have appeared in the past. So it leaves things a bit up in the air.

The article also points out several aspects that would make it difficult to detect such a civilization. I'm wondering just how much we would leave that would be detectable in, say, 70 million years. Remember, we have only been an 'industrial civilization' for a couple hundred years.

Certainly, a civilization ending nuclear war would be detectable quite some time later. But short of that extreme, would the isotope anomalies we produce be enough to lead someone to suspect a civilization?

The better question is if we can find another civilization, and possible of another industrial civilization. It is possible as we find other habitable planets we may be able to detect signatures in the atmosphere of an industrial civilization.

Another good question. Also, there is the question of whether we would be able to detect the remains of a civilization that died out 30 million years ago. My guess on that is that we would need to actually go to the other planets to detect something like that.

 

[Cooky]

It is the conclusion of the article that we can tell, and we are the only Industrial civilization in the history of the earth.

The better question is if we can find another civilization, and possible of another industrial civilization. It is possible as we find other habitable planets we may be able to detect signatures in the atmosphere of an industrial civilization.

The bigger question for me, is that if there is another civilization that has industrialized somewhere, is it the epitome of life, at a certain stage to do so? Is it a Natural, or Universal Law for intelligent life?

...Or would it be coincidence?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is, are we the first species on Earth that has had an industrial civilization?

And would we be able to figure it out if we are not?

If We Weren’t the First Industrial Civilization on Earth, Would We Ever Know? - MIT Technology Review - Pocket

How would it affect your views of humanity if we *aren't* the first industrial civilization on Earth?

Yes, I see it is quite possible there was.

Regards Tony

 

[Milton Platt]

That is, are we the first species on Earth that has had an industrial civilization?

And would we be able to figure it out if we are not?

If We Weren’t the First Industrial Civilization on Earth, Would We Ever Know? - MIT Technology Review - Pocket

How would it affect your views of humanity if we *aren't* the first industrial civilization on Earth?

Well, we know the age of the earth, and we have dug through all the rock layers. There is no sign of industrialization before us, or even rudimentary civilization.

 

[Polymath257]

Well, we know the age of the earth, and we have dug through all the rock layers. There is no sign of industrialization before us, or even rudimentary civilization.

True to some extent, but would civilization like ours have left enough traces to be detectable? Among other things, the short time period in which we have been 'industrial' (a couple hundred years) would probably NOT be well represented in the geological layers.

MAYBE some chemical signature of our technology would be detectable. But that is far from clear.

 

[cladking]

That is, are we the first species on Earth that has had an industrial civilization?

And would we be able to figure it out if we are not?

If We Weren’t the First Industrial Civilization on Earth, Would We Ever Know? - MIT Technology Review - Pocket

How would it affect your views of humanity if we *aren't* the first industrial civilization on Earth?

I think the study is highly flawed because there would be ample signs of any industrial civilization at least locally. There would be dinosaurs with wrist watches and fossilized highway cloverleafs.

On the other hand I do believe that there is advanced science all around us and we can't see it because it is dissimilar to ours. Bee hives and beaver dams are a couple examples but ancient man survived in a golden age with a science that left little sign because its technology was as organic as a hive or dam. Homo Sapiens became extinct and they aren't found with wrist watches either.

 

[Milton Platt]

True to some extent, but would civilization like ours have left enough traces to be detectable? Among other things, the short time period in which we have been 'industrial' (a couple hundred years) would probably NOT be well represented in the geological layers.

MAYBE some chemical signature of our technology would be detectable. But that is far from clear.

If a few thousand neanderthals can leave a trace, then a civilization with huge factories, roadways, vehicles, skyscrapers, power plants, dams, etc. surely would leave a trace.

 

[Polymath257]

If a few thousand neanderthals can leave a trace, then a civilization with huge factories, roadways, vehicles, skyscrapers, power plants, dams, etc. surely would leave a trace.

Neanderthals were very recent on this scale. I would agree that we would expect to see something for anything within the last, say, few million years.

But what about 70 million years? or 150 million? At that point, I am much less certain. All of those constructions would disappear on that time scale.

 

[Milton Platt]

Neanderthals were very recent on this scale. I would agree that we would expect to see something for anything within the last, say, few million years.

But what about 70 million years? or 150 million? At that point, I am much less certain. All of those constructions would disappear on that time scale.

Microbial mat fossils have been found in rock dated to nearly 3.5 billion years.

 

[shunyadragon]

True to some extent, but would civilization like ours have left enough traces to be detectable? Among other things, the short time period in which we have been 'industrial' (a couple hundred years) would probably NOT be well represented in the geological layers.

MAYBE some chemical signature of our technology would be detectable. But that is far from clear.

First our civilization can be traced with incremental development since humans were first human~250,000+ years ago. There is abundant evidence of each step in the process, we leave or mark in the sediments. we even left our mark before we were civilized, They recently found woven cord made by Neanderthals.

I am a geologist and drill rig supervisor and I am familiar with drill cores all over the world Our industrial civilization and pre-industrial civilization leave their geochemical mark pollution and waste products. There is none before our civilization. I have seen cores that go back before life was on earth billions of years ago, and no there were no other civilization before us,

 

[shunyadragon]

Microbial mat fossils have been found in rock dated to nearly 3.5 billion years.

. . . before that not much, just trace fossils, and before that nothing, and a rather uninviting place for life.

 

[Thief]

That is, are we the first species on Earth that has had an industrial civilization?

And would we be able to figure it out if we are not?

If We Weren’t the First Industrial Civilization on Earth, Would We Ever Know? - MIT Technology Review - Pocket

How would it affect your views of humanity if we *aren't* the first industrial civilization on Earth?

ants

 

[shunyadragon]

OOPArts Found in Coal and Stone: Is There an Explanation for These Anomalous Bells, Chains, Walls and More?

For a huge coal deposit to exist with artefacts found within, what used to exist, that no longer exists cannot be factored into consideration in science when it has been destroyed.

I am personally familiar with the rock formations associated with the coal fields of West Virginia, Kentucky and Pennsylvania, and actually later China, because that is where I worked after I got out of college as a geologist and soil scientist. There are artifacts from old mine tunnels, but 'anomalous Bells, Chains, Walls and more' of human source simply do not exist. I know of some natural concretions that vaguely resemble human manufacture, but no they are known to be of natural origin, and occur mostly in Permian rocks older than the coal fields..