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Are we saved by our own efforts or are we saved by God's efforts ?

zacariah88

Member
Where are you in the world did you get saved because you wanted or because you asked for it ? Can we be saved because Jesus wanted it or becuase you were destined tell you own testimony how you are saved ? Tell us how you were saved and what you wanted was by your will or by God's will. Because you can't be saved by your own efforts only by God's who put you in your life ?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Where are you in the world did you get saved because you wanted or because you asked for it ? Can we be saved because Jesus wanted it or becuase you were destined tell you own testimony how you are saved ? Tell us how you were saved and what you wanted was by your will or by God's will. Because you can't be saved by your own efforts only by God's who put you in your life ?
The first issue with your post is that you seem to assume we know already whether we are saved or not. Most Christians do not pretend to know the answer to that, though they live in hope of course.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Tell us how you were saved and what you wanted was by your will or by God's will.

That question brings up one of the differences between the Catholic Church and the Denominations. In answering are you saved, the Catholic will respond, being 'in hope of being saved', others will simply answer 'yes I am saved'.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Where are you in the world did you get saved because you wanted or because you asked for it ? Can we be saved because Jesus wanted it or becuase you were destined tell you own testimony how you are saved ? Tell us how you were saved and what you wanted was by your will or by God's will. Because you can't be saved by your own efforts only by God's who put you in your life ?
While you can find minority views of various kinds, the predominate view I think is generally (several views fall into this broad category) that we choose to repent and turn to God and He helps us, both.

While one can then lay out all sorts of details, I think it's far better to just read with listening such things as Luke chapter 15, or even better really is to just read through the gospel accounts fully, and be content to have that more full picture from that full reading.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
That question brings up one of the differences between the Catholic Church and the Denominations. In answering are you saved, the Catholic will respond, being 'in hope of being saved', others will simply answer 'yes I am saved'.
My close and very extensively educated in Catholic doctrine friend says it as "we are saved, we are being saved (it's not yet finished), and we will be saved" -- all 3 tenses, past, present, future.
 

AdamjEdgar

Active Member
It seems to me from reading some responses here that some people assume once saved always saved. So much emphasis on a fallacy that is simply untrue.
I believe through faith that Christ is real and that his life death and ressurection atoned for sin
i believe that through grace we are offered the cloak of Christs righteousness and that in being clothed by that, we may walk in boldy before the throne and be judged righteous
I also believe that salvation can be lost and that we must die daily in order to remain in the fold.
God offers salvation to all however, his atonement is only for those who have confessed their sins (as per the day of atonement service in the tabernacle).
Salvation is not for those who do not confess and seek it and whilst we are not saved by our own works, these works are the fruits of our faith. So our works are the outward showing of our internal faith...the two go together.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
It seems to me from reading some responses here that some people assume once saved always saved. So much emphasis on a fallacy that is simply untrue.
I believe through faith that Christ is real and that his life death and ressurection atoned for sin
i believe that through grace we are offered the cloak of Christs righteousness and that in being clothed by that, we may walk in boldy before the throne and be judged righteous
I also believe that salvation can be lost and that we must die daily in order to remain in the fold.
God offers salvation to all however, his atonement is only for those who have confessed their sins (as per the day of atonement service in the tabernacle).
Salvation is not for those who do not confess and seek it and whilst we are not saved by our own works, these works are the fruits of our faith. So our works are the outward showing of our internal faith...the two go together.
Yes, one helpful (there are many!) passage, after someone has learned such key things as confession and more like in 1rst John 1:5-2:17 and other things you summarize -- is just the general message that Paul wrote in Philippians ch 3 on he how he did not consider himself to have already attained but was striving.
:)

7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.


Where are you in the world did you get saved because you wanted or because you asked for it ? Can we be saved because Jesus wanted it or becuase you were destined tell you own testimony how you are saved ? Tell us how you were saved and what you wanted was by your will or by God's will. Because you can't be saved by your own efforts only by God's who put you in your life ?
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Where are you in the world did you get saved because you wanted or because you asked for it ? Can we be saved because Jesus wanted it or becuase you were destined tell you own testimony how you are saved ? Tell us how you were saved and what you wanted was by your will or by God's will. Because you can't be saved by your own efforts only by God's who put you in your life ?
That's very easy -- God's efforts.

A great analogy, and one that Christ also used -- we are (to be) like little children. In fact He said we must change and become like little children or else we cannot make it into heaven! (Matthew 18)....

We do have legs and an ability to hold our parent's hand and walk as they lead....

And a choice in that...

But the Parent is doing the overwhelming 99% of the key things in helping us make it...

But it is still up to us to take the Parent's hand and trust the Parent and follow....

So, we do participate, and must, but He does all the major work.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
I can hardly save myself, since it's mostly the flaws in myself that I need saving from. Only God can perform this miracle of healing.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Where are you in the world did you get saved because you wanted or because you asked for it ? Can we be saved because Jesus wanted it or becuase you were destined tell you own testimony how you are saved ? Tell us how you were saved and what you wanted was by your will or by God's will. Because you can't be saved by your own efforts only by God's who put you in your life ?
I don't judge others nor myself.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
As Catholics we believe all who are saved are saved through Christ with no merit of our own,
But what we do does also come into play, such as what is taught in Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats. Also, the Sermon On the Mount deals with our actions. This is not to disagree with you but to simply point out that actions do have their consequences under the Gospel.
 

zacariah88

Member
Jesus says different.
“By your words you’ll be justified and by your words you’ll be condemned.”
“Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.”
“The man who comes to me hears my word and uses it”
“Not everyone who cries to me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven but only those who do the will of my Heavenly Father.”
“I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of Him who sent me.”
“Anyone who chooses to do His will shall know about this teaching namely if it comes from God or I am speaking on my own.”
 

zacariah88

Member
We are not saved through "working our way into the kingdom of heaven".

We are regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost, "not by works of righteousness which we have done." (Titus 3:5).

We are not born again through giving $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000.

That only occurs through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ.

The inevitable result of being redeemed through faith in the blood of the Lamb, is that the love of the Lord will be shed abroad in your heart (Romans 5:5). This love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18).

Therefore, good works will ulitmately follow after a genuine salvation, given time and opportunity.

However, we are not saved by those works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-9, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 11:5-6).

If I have to "work my way into heaven", at what point can I say that I have earned my way in? Don't I have to keep working throughout all of eternity in order to obtain the eternal riches of heaven?

However, it is written,

Heb 4:10, For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
 

zacariah88

Member
A good freind said this.

I have a question or two for all of you about v21. Here's v21 again, along with the short passage that it's taken from.
Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, ~‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’~
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’


You said that obedience/doing the will of the Father is the key to our being able to enter His Kingdom. I don't disagree, but what of the folks in the following verse, those who the Lord ends up sending into the Lake of Fire :unsure: Which of their deeds (see v22 above) resulted in them being condemned/sent into the Lake of Fire, instead of into God's Kingdom :unsure:

Everything that the folks in v22 mentioned doing seem to be acts of obedience on their part, yes, acts that they did in the Lord's very Name, in point of fact. So, if obedience is the key to entering God's Kingdom, why didn't it work for them :unsure: Were they not obedient "enough" perhaps? And if that's true, how can we know if 'we' are being obedient "enough" to be saved :unsure:

It seems clear that the folks in v22 were very surprised by the Lord's judgment and condemnation of them at the Great White Throne. Since that is the case, what do you think that we need to do to avoid the very same fate?
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
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