Are we experiencing an apocalypse?

[Dawnofhope]

I’m not a fan of applying apocalyptic or end times language to our current circumstances. Narratives around themes such as the apocalypse and Armageddon are often used and exploited by extreme and fundamentalist religious groups. The language can be emotive and manipulative when these times call for calm and wise decision making.

However a friend recently commented that this may be the only apocalypse we see in our lifetime. On reflection this worldwide pandemic has similarities with the so called Spanish influenza virus through 1918 where an estimated 50 million people died. Obviously we’re no where near that figure yet but its still early days. The economic repercussions are being compared to the Great Depression in the 1930s. Once again its far too early to tell whether this period will be similar.

If it is as bad, could the terms apocalypse and Armageddon be usefully applied the Spanish flu, the Great Depression and even the two world wars.

Examples of the meaning of the word apocalypse include;

1/ The complete final destruction of the world, as described in the biblical book of Revelation.

2/ An event involving destruction or damage on a catastrophic scale.

So the current circumstances might meet the criteria for definition (2). If we are experiencing an ‘apocalypse’ what does religion provide that could assist us as opposed to hinder our response to coronavirus?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... Examples of the meaning of the word apocalypse include;

1/ The complete final destruction of the world, as described in the biblical book of Revelation.

2/ An event involving destruction or damage on a catastrophic scale.

So the current circumstances might meet the criteria for definition (2). If we are experiencing an ‘apocalypse’ what does religion provide that could assist us as opposed to hinder our response to coronavirus?

Hyperbole is rarely helpful.

 

[Mock Turtle]

It's no apocalypse, but just a wake-up call to show us not to be so damned complacent about our lives and what we might be doing to our environment. We have got so used to fast everything - travel, consumerism, technological turnover, etc., but we'll have to face the consequences of much of this. Perhaps we need to slow down some things - so as to allow for such things as pandemics - since this seems to be the future. And we really do need to make better preparations for some of the dangers facing us, besides pandemics.

 

[Kenny]

I’m not a fan of applying apocalyptic or end times language to our current circumstances. Narratives around themes such as the apocalypse and Armageddon are often used and exploited by extreme and fundamentalist religious groups. The language can be emotive and manipulative when these times call for calm and wise decision making.

However a friend recently commented that this may be the only apocalypse we see in our lifetime. On reflection this worldwide pandemic has similarities with the so called Spanish influenza virus through 1918 where an estimated 50 million people died. Obviously we’re no where near that figure yet but its still early days. The economic repercussions are being compared to the Great Depression in the 1930s. Once again its far too early to tell whether this period will be similar.

If it is as bad could the terms apocalypse and Armageddon be usefully applied the Spanish flu, the Great Depression and even the two world wars Examples of the meaning of the word apocalypse include;

1/ The complete final destruction of the world, as described in the biblical book of Revelation.

2/ An event involving destruction or damage on a catastrophic scale.

So the current circumstances might meet the criteria for definition (2). If we are experiencing an ‘apocalypse’ what does religion provide that could assist us as opposed to hinder our response to coronavirus?

Definitely not.

Apparently they are finding out that hundreds of thousands of people already have anti-bodies but didn't know they were infected

Testing shows hundreds of thousands in LA County may have been infected with coronavirus

Thus, it is simply a new viral strain that some bodies weren't ready to process.

I think faith vs fear helps too.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Definitely not.

Apparently they are finding out that hundreds of thousands of people already have anti-bodies but didn't know they were infected

Testing shows hundreds of thousands in LA County may have been infected with coronavirus

Thus, it is simply a new viral strain that some bodies weren't ready to process.

I think faith vs fear helps too.

Interesting article but highly problematic.

1/ The sample (863) is actually far too small for meaningful analysis.

2/ The 4.1% of a sample size who tested positive may represent a false positive rate with the antibody testing.

There are serious questions being raised about the validity of antibody testing for coronavirus.

Coronavirus: Blood tests aren't yet reliable, public health labs warn

 

[SomeRandom]

I wouldn’t go that far, really. Our species have survived the Spanish Flu, the Bubonic plague and god knows how many died due to now treatable illnesses. We will lose many, but we will continue

 

[Nimos]

However a friend recently commented that this may be the only apocalypse we see in our lifetime. On reflection this worldwide pandemic has similarities with the so called Spanish influenza virus through 1918 where an estimated 50 million people died. Obviously we’re no where near that figure yet but its still early days. The economic repercussions are being compared to the Great Depression in the 1930s. Once again its far too early to tell whether this period will be similar.

This is not even near the apocalypse as far as I see it. Humans effect on Earth is and we are in the middle of it, if we are to believe some biologists. A small virus like this is nothing compared to what else is going on.

THE ‘SIXTH MASS EXTINCTION’

• Species are becoming extinct 100 times faster than they would without human impacts.
• Populations of wild animals have more than halved since 1970, while the human population has doubled.
• Only five times before in our planet’s history have so many species and so much biodiversity been lost so quickly. The fifth was when the dinosaurs were wiped out. That is why scientists and conservationists call what is happening now the ‘sixth mass extinction’. Some have even described the loss of biodiversity today as ‘biological annihilation’.

Now throw the effect of climate change on top, which obviously also impact the loss of biodiversity. To me, this is a much worse situation, it comes slowly as most of us can not directly observe it, so we tend to care less then, which makes us blind and unable or willing to really do what is required. So if things doesn't change, it will be a slow downhill spiral getting worse and worse.

 

[Vouthon]

Definitely not.

Apparently they are finding out that hundreds of thousands of people already have anti-bodies but didn't know they were infected

Testing shows hundreds of thousands in LA County may have been infected with coronavirus

Thus, it is simply a new viral strain that some bodies weren't ready to process.

I think faith vs fear helps too.

On the contrary, the most recent studies I've found - such as this one reported in the press, others have had less coverage - seem to be indicating that full antibody immunity to Covid-19 is relatively weak and that antibody tests are so far largely inaccurate:

Up to 30% of coronavirus patients hardly develop ANY antibodies | Daily Mail Online

Britain spent £16m ordering flawed coronavirus home testing kits from China | News | The Times

 

[Vouthon]

@adrian009 In terms of dictionary definition 1, both of us would agree that we are certainly not facing an extinction-level event, such as mass, global biomass burning in the aftermath of a large meteor impact or a nuclear winter following a world war.

But 2 is a much more subtle application of the concept and actually the paradigm operative in the Book of Revelation and most other texts of the apocalyptic genre, such as Daniel.

Courtesy of advancements in biblical scholarship, we now know that Daniel was not a "literal" prophesy of the end times but more a highly symbolic and literary response to the trials faced by Jews during the Maccabean Revolt against the Seleucid Empire in the second century BCE. That doesn't mean the author didn't intend for a futurist interpretation of certain oracles in the book, it just wasn't the predominant authorial intent. That's probably one why Jews place Daniel in the Writings section of the Tanakh as opposed to the Nevi'im.

It was written to console, inspire and embolden the faith, stoical resolve and mental fortitude of a colonised people undergoing serious repression and tribulations.

The Book of Revelation appears to have had a similar purpose on the part of John of Patmos, a symbolically rich, allegorical response to the suffering of the early Christians under the emperors Nero and Domitian.

The Church referred to the Revelation of John as an “apocalypse,” a Hebrew genre dealing with current world events unfolding as if they were fulfilling future oracles.

So, if apocalypse is understood on those terms - a period of intense, painful tribulation that we must stoically endure, with faith and resolve, and with the promise or at least hope of something better to come - I'm not averse to applying it, if some people find that particular paradigm useful, although it wouldn't be my personal choice.

 

[MNoBody]

apocalypse means revelation, an unveiling of something
should dine here more often, it is very revealing.

 

[PureX]

We are experiencing the results of our own greed, willful ignorance, and general selfishness. The question is, will we learn anything from it?

I think that will depend on how badly we are hurt by it.

 

[MNoBody]

We are experiencing the results of our own greed, willful ignorance, and general selfishness. The question is, will we learn anything from it?

I think that will depend on how badly we are hurt by it.

which brings up something that has puzzled me.....why do humans seem to "require" trauma to make any meaningful progress?

 

[PureX]

which brings up something that has puzzled me.....why do humans seem to "require" trauma to make any meaningful progress?

"If it feels good, do it. If it feels bad, don't!" ... would be my guess. We humans don't think our way through life, we feel our way through it. And by the time we finally realize this is not the best method of living (if we ever do realize it) we are older and have already made a pretty good mess of things.

 

[MNoBody]

"If it feels good, do it. If it feels bad, don't!" ... would be my guess. We humans don't think our way through life, we feel our way through it. And by the time we finally realize this is not the best method of living (if we ever do realize it) we are older and have already made a pretty good mess of things.

right, but by that metric kids always tend to eat the sweet and not the bitter ...yuck....and get the expected typical results.....

 

[Kenny]

Interesting article but highly problematic.

1/ The sample (863) is actually far too small for meaningful analysis.

2/ The 4.1% of a sample size who tested positive may represent a false positive rate with the antibody testing.

There are serious questions being raised about the validity of antibody testing for coronavirus.

Coronavirus: Blood tests aren't yet reliable, public health labs warn

This is true... however, the statistics that came from the Cruise Line supports the position.

What Can Scientists Learn From The Coronavirus Outbreak On The Diamond Princess Cruise Ship?

We must realize that the statics show that more are infected that are asymptomatic. Additionally, we are realizing that someone may have passed away, having contracted Covid-19, that didn't die from the virus and the fact that they tested that they did have it, it was listed as the virus cause.

 

[Kenny]

On the contrary, the most recent studies I've found - such as this one reported in the press, others have had less coverage - seem to be indicating that full antibody immunity to Covid-19 is relatively weak and that antibody tests are so far largely inaccurate:

Up to 30% of coronavirus patients hardly develop ANY antibodies | Daily Mail Online

Britain spent £16m ordering flawed coronavirus home testing kits from China | News | The Times

I guess... what we do know... is that we still know nothing. In as much as the death rate is still what it is, I can hardly call it an apocalypse.

 

[1213]

…

2/ An event involving destruction or damage on a catastrophic scale.

So the current circumstances might meet the criteria for definition (2). If we are experiencing an ‘apocalypse’ what does religion provide that could assist us as opposed to hinder our response to coronavirus?

It seems to me that the decisions world leaders have done are catastrophically bad, but not the coronavirus itself. Coronavirus is about as lethal as normal influenza. People murder babies about 125 000 per day in the world. Coronavirus is very small in comparison to that.

Abortion Statistics - Worldometer

 

[MNoBody]

these alleged culprits for our problems trouble me less than the people handling them
idiocracy....i thought it was just a fictional movie, not a documentary

 

[Dawnofhope]

This is true... however, the statistics that came from the Cruise Line supports the position.

What Can Scientists Learn From The Coronavirus Outbreak On The Diamond Princess Cruise Ship?

We must realize that the statics show that more are infected that are asymptomatic. Additionally, we are realizing that someone may have passed away, having contracted Covid-19, that didn't die from the virus and the fact that they tested that they did have it, it was listed as the virus cause.

I think you have posted the wrong article and meant to post 22nd March article;

What Have Scientists Learned About COVID-19 And Coronavirus By Using Cruise Ship Data?

Instead you posted the earlier 20th February 2020 article which contains only preliminary thoughts.

A careful examination of the paper provides little evidence to support the assertion from the Fox news article that

"The estimated infection numbers are 28 to 55 times higher than the 7,994 confirmed COVID-19 cases L.A. County had reported at the time of the study in early April."

To the contrary the facts presented from the Diamond Princess Study make a mockery of this claim.

It is well known amongst the medical community there is a significant minority of individuals who have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic. This paper supports that knowledge base.

"As Forbes contributor Bruce Y. Lee explains here, the scientists were also able to estimate that 17.9% of people infected on the ship had shown no symptoms, a vitally important piece of information to influence how public health authorities around the world respond to the virus in their own backyards."

However of those that were 'asymptomatic' nearly half had significant changes seen in their lungs.

"The second study looked at computerized tomography (CT) scans taken from 112 people who had contracted confirmed COVID-19 on board the Diamond Princess with an average age of 62, although the ages ranged from 25 to 93 years old. Of the 112 people scanned, 73% of them didn’t have any clinically obvious symptoms but half of these people had detectable changes in their lungs indicating some level of pneumonia."

So I'm not sure how you can use the asymptomatic rate to support the assertion that hundreds of thousands of asymptomatic are in LA as opposed to the mere 8,000 that have been detected. If those 8,000 were detected because they were symptomatic then we would have another 2,000 asymptomatic people that haven't been detected, not hundreds of thousands.

The relatively small numbers of those who died were recorded;
"Of the 712 people infected on board, eight so far are known to have died"

This is consistent with the 0.5 - 1 % mortality rate that many studies are highlighting. This is much worse than the seasonal influenza virus. It certainly explains the experiences the world has seen initially through China but then in European countries such as Italy, Sprain, France and the UK and more recently in some parts of the USA such as New York.

Another statement you have made needs exploration too. You have suggested we have overestimated the mortality rates of coronavirus whereas most scientific research is clear we have underestimated the number of deaths, for example from those who died in their homes of coronavirus but were never tested. Then there are many who die of other conditions that could not be managed due to health systems being overwhelmed as in Italy. You may be interested in this article written by a forensic pathologist that addresses the conflicting estimating/overestimating discussion that appears rife in the USA.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85925

 

[Shad]

I’m not a fan of applying apocalyptic or end times language to our current circumstances. Narratives around themes such as the apocalypse and Armageddon are often used and exploited by extreme and fundamentalist religious groups. The language can be emotive and manipulative when these times call for calm and wise decision making.

However a friend recently commented that this may be the only apocalypse we see in our lifetime. On reflection this worldwide pandemic has similarities with the so called Spanish influenza virus through 1918 where an estimated 50 million people died. Obviously we’re no where near that figure yet but its still early days. The economic repercussions are being compared to the Great Depression in the 1930s. Once again its far too early to tell whether this period will be similar.

If it is as bad could the terms apocalypse and Armageddon be usefully applied the Spanish flu, the Great Depression and even the two world wars Examples of the meaning of the word apocalypse include;

1/ The complete final destruction of the world, as described in the biblical book of Revelation.

2/ An event involving destruction or damage on a catastrophic scale.

So the current circumstances might meet the criteria for definition (2). If we are experiencing an ‘apocalypse’ what does religion provide that could assist us as opposed to hinder our response to coronavirus?

This is not even close to an apocalypse. People need to stop freaking out.