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Are these the last days?

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Jesus said that the majority of those living during the last days would take no note of the evidence Christ was present as King of God's Kingdom. (Matthew 24:37-39) And as previously quoted, the Bible speaks of ridiculers who would deny the clear evidence we are in the last days. (2 Peter 3:3,4) I believe the coming of Jehovah's day will settle the question for all. (2 Peter 3:7)

The majority of EVERY GENERATION took no note, so again, nothing different about this one, is there?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus said that the majority of those living during the last days would take no note of the evidence Christ was present as King of God's Kingdom. (Matthew 24:37-39) And as previously quoted, the Bible speaks of ridiculers who would deny the clear evidence we are in the last days. (2 Peter 3:3,4) I believe the coming of Jehovah's day will settle the question for all. (2 Peter 3:7)
2 Peter 3:7 might not say, "destruction of ungodly men" but it looks like it means, the end of the worship of men. See GREEK sebomai
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@rusra02 The end of the worship of the creation is a happy hope. But the end of people by God just because they do not believe in God is sad, scary and more than a little evil.

I really, really hate to troll you again, but isn't the worship of men what the Jehovah's Witnesses say God's will is for us? You know..... obey the governing body whether they are right or wrong? Do they not order you to believe them even though they might be wrong about something?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The majority of EVERY GENERATION took no note, so again, nothing different about this one, is there?

Wrong calculations do Not make the Bible as wrong, just the guesses as wrong.
Unlike previous generations, the ' good news of God's kingdom '- Matthew 24:14 - did Not reach the international scale as the work of Matthew 28:18-20 as is being done today.
Even modern technology has made rapid Bible translation possible into many languages so that the majority of earth's population can read Scripture in their own mother tongue, or native language. So, that global spreading of Scripture along with conditions such as mentioned at Luke 21:11 show the end times of all badness on earth is at hand.
We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33 before Jesus' ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Wrong calculations do Not make the Bible as wrong, just the guesses as wrong.
Unlike previous generations, the ' good news of God's kingdom '- Matthew 24:14 - did Not reach the international scale as the work of Matthew 28:18-20 as is being done today.
Even modern technology has made rapid Bible translation possible into many languages so that the majority of earth's population can read Scripture in their own mother tongue, or native language. So, that global spreading of Scripture along with conditions such as mentioned at Luke 21:11 show the end times of all badness on earth is at hand.
We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33 before Jesus' ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
I think the Bible does not make it perfectly clear that
1. the separation only happens at the end
2. that "off into destruction" means execution
and
3. that "into everlasting life" means a reward.

I think that off into destruction (or torment; Strong's 2851) just means that to refuse the way, the truth and the life means there is only one other option which is to be without God and there is no Helper.
To go into everlasting life means the person chooses to go the way of The Lord.
It has been happening since Abel chose the good way and Cain chose the bad way. But you will say, "31 “When the Son of man+ comes in his glory, and all the angels with him,+ then he will sit down on his glorious throne." only happens at the end. But scripture says otherwise. Does it not say that Jesus is from the beginning? John 17:5
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@URAVIP2ME
Some people say, "31 “When the Son of man+ comes in his glory, and all the angels with him,+ then he will sit down on his glorious throne." only happens at the end. But scripture says otherwise. Does it not say that Jesus is from the beginning? John 17:5
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Matthew 25:31 31 When the Son of man+ comes in his glory, and all the angels with him,+ then he will sit down on his glorious throne.

Define when: 3752hótan (from 3753/hóte, "when" and 302/án, "whenever a specified condition is fulfilled") – properly, "at the time when the condition is met,"
http://biblehub.com/greek/3752.htm

John 14:13 Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son.+14 If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

Any governing body mentioned there?

Matthew 28:18 - 18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." WHEN was that? To be saying it was more than 2000 years after that he will come in his glory is teaching OTHER THAN scripture.

It appears to me that scripture says he came in glory soon after his death.

So, what kind of glory does the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses say Matthew 25:31 is about?

The condition for his glory was satisfied when he endured to the end which was at his death. His resurrection was when he came in glory. The Bible says so!
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Jesus spoke of the end of the world or system of things as recorded in Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13. Other Scriptures refer to the last days, describing them as "critical times hard to deal with." (2 Timothy 3:1-5) Do you think these are the last days?
A little hard to tell in light the last days are described in general terms over events that pretty much happen all the time. ;0)
 

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
Nowhere Man,
Meditate, just a few minutes on this thought, please.
If you had asked Jesus, what would be the signs that he was about to come back to earth, and he gave you many signs, and also made sure that other Bible writers also added more signs, making up a composite sign of 39 separate and distinct signs, how would it be possible not to recognize them??? Jesus said that all these signs would be seen in ONE generation. Ones that cannot be mistaken are WARS, Famine, pestilences, earthquakes, Luke 21:10,11. Think about WARS; there have been killed in the last century, more people than has been killed in wars since Jesus walked on earth, well over 100,000,000. Famine, millions are dying every year from hunger, and Hidden hunger. We can read about this in the News, almost every day. Pestilences; we all know about the pestilences, aides, influenza, Ebola, and we hear that doctors are expecting any day to encounter some plague that we have no defense against. All these in the generation that Jesus said that he would return, Luke 21:32.
There are many other things mentioned by Bible writers, 2Timothy 3:1-7. The Bible even tells us that there would be scoffers, saying where is this presence of his, why from creation, all things are going on the same, 2Peter 3:3-7.
Now, this generation is different from all others, because ALL these things are happening in the SAME generation, and each calamity on a level never seen in any other generation. When you put these things together, it is almost impossible NOT to recognize that this is the generation that Jesus was talking about.
Another great sign that most people do not recognize, is mentioned in Daniel, about the return of the Christ, and the setting back in power the Kingdom, The Messianic Kingdom that was to be trampled on for period of 2,520 years, Daniel 4:10-17. This great TREE is picturing God's Kingdom on earth. It would cease its rule on earth for a period of seven times. These seven times picture a period of 2,520 years, which ended in 1914. When Jesus was seated on the throne as King of the Kingdom, Satan and his demons would be thrown down to earth, which would cause much trouble on the earth, until Jesus returns to earth, to start his rule as King of the Messianic Kingdom, for 1,000 years, Luke 21:24, Revelation 6:2, 12:7-12, 20:1-10.
With all the things mentioned in the Bible, to help us recognize this generation, there is absolutely NO excuse for not doing so.
There can only be a couple of reasons, a heart that is not right, Matthew 13:13-15, having the truth veil from people, by Satan, 2Corinthians 4:3,4. Maybe even worse, Willful Blindness!!!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Revelation 6:2
I think you have no proof that Revelation 6:2 pictures Jesus except that Jesus rides a white colored horse pictured at Revelation 19:11. Can the white horse mean prophesy? 2 Peter 1:21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Many people ride out prophesy. You do, I do, lots of people do. So who is that riding in Rev 6:2? Note that he accepts a crown.
Who do some people say was appointed by Jesus to be obeyed? Kings are to be obeyed. The crown signifies a king. YOU say it signifies Jesus the king. But that is your opinion. What proof do you have?
 

kerndog

Member
Nowhere Man,
Meditate, just a few minutes on this thought, please.
If you had asked Jesus, what would be the signs that he was about to come back to earth, and he gave you many signs, and also made sure that other Bible writers also added more signs, making up a composite sign of 39 separate and distinct signs, how would it be possible not to recognize them??? Jesus said that all these signs would be seen in ONE generation. Ones that cannot be mistaken are WARS, Famine, pestilences, earthquakes, Luke 21:10,11. Think about WARS; there have been killed in the last century, more people than has been killed in wars since Jesus walked on earth, well over 100,000,000. Famine, millions are dying every year from hunger, and Hidden hunger. We can read about this in the News, almost every day. Pestilences; we all know about the pestilences, aides, influenza, Ebola, and we hear that doctors are expecting any day to encounter some plague that we have no defense against. All these in the generation that Jesus said that he would return, Luke 21:32.
There are many other things mentioned by Bible writers, 2Timothy 3:1-7. The Bible even tells us that there would be scoffers, saying where is this presence of his, why from creation, all things are going on the same, 2Peter 3:3-7.
Now, this generation is different from all others, because ALL these things are happening in the SAME generation, and each calamity on a level never seen in any other generation. When you put these things together, it is almost impossible NOT to recognize that this is the generation that Jesus was talking about.
Another great sign that most people do not recognize, is mentioned in Daniel, about the return of the Christ, and the setting back in power the Kingdom, The Messianic Kingdom that was to be trampled on for period of 2,520 years, Daniel 4:10-17. This great TREE is picturing God's Kingdom on earth. It would cease its rule on earth for a period of seven times. These seven times picture a period of 2,520 years, which ended in 1914. When Jesus was seated on the throne as King of the Kingdom, Satan and his demons would be thrown down to earth, which would cause much trouble on the earth, until Jesus returns to earth, to start his rule as King of the Messianic Kingdom, for 1,000 years, Luke 21:24, Revelation 6:2, 12:7-12, 20:1-10.
With all the things mentioned in the Bible, to help us recognize this generation, there is absolutely NO excuse for not doing so.
There can only be a couple of reasons, a heart that is not right, Matthew 13:13-15, having the truth veil from people, by Satan, 2Corinthians 4:3,4. Maybe even worse, Willful Blindness!!!
12jtartar, everything you have pointed out is spot on, ...REV.6:4...brings out that during these last days, a symbolic fiery colored horse would be granted the power to take peace away from the earth, so that we could slaughter one another, and to help that along we would be given a GREAT SWORD, this great sword represents the ability to slaughter on an unprecedented scale, which as tar tar pointed out, in the last century has been carried out in spades !! For crying out loud, we now have the ability to wipe every living thing off the face of the planet, with the touch of a button, how much more proof do you need ?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@12jtartar Revelation 6:2 pictures a horse in company with horses which ride the world into death. Surely you do not believe the way, the truth and the life
rides anyone into death?
Some inconsistencies.
1. at the time of the white horse riding Jesus is pictured in Heaven. - Do you disagree? Who is the lamb?
2. in the account the rider "is given" a crown. JWs claim Revelation 6 is about the time we live in. - Is this correct?
3. if it is correct that Re 6 is about the time of the end it means that the rider receives his crown later than Jesus received his crown. Matthew 28:18
Even though a crown is not mentioned there he did receive all authority then. Do you disagree? Accepting a crown pictures receiving authority. - Correct?
4. can you think of anyone who received authority in this time of the end?
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
Jesus spoke of the end of the world or system of things as recorded in Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13. Other Scriptures refer to the last days, describing them as "critical times hard to deal with." (2 Timothy 3:1-5) Do you think these are the last days?

Absolutely these are the last days. Just read the prophecies of the end times in Revelation and it absolutely describes what is happening in the world today.
 

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
I believe in preterism. Jesus already came back in 70 AD and there was even a special resurrection at that time in fulfillment of Daniel 12. Then the Millennium lasted from 70 to 1071 AD when the Muslims beat the Christian's butt in the Crusades. So now Satan has been unleashed and he is deceiving the whole world to prepare for Armageddon, which some preterists say has already happened.
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
I believe in preterism. Jesus already came back in 70 AD and there was even a special resurrection at that time in fulfillment of Daniel 12. Then the Millennium lasted from 70 to 1071 AD when the Muslims beat the Christian's butt in the Crusades. So now Satan has been unleashed and he is deceiving the whole world to prepare for Armageddon, which some preterists say has already happened.

Interesting interpretation of scripture. That was just a comment, I'm not asking you to elaborate.
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
@First Baseman who do you say is pictured at Revelation 6:2?

What I say doesn't matter. It is the truth that matters. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. I believe you need to well understand this before you start trying to understand what the Spirit said to St. John in the book of Revelation. That's just my take on it.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What I say doesn't matter. It is the truth that matters. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. I believe you need to well understand this before you start trying to understand what the Spirit said to St. John in the book of Revelation. That's just my take on it.
But what you teach matters. If you do not know that then I think you should take your own advice.
James 1:16 James 3:1
I shall ask around you. What do Catholic teachers say it is?
 

First Baseman

Retired athlete
But what you teach matters. If you do not know that then I think you should take your own advice.
James 1:16 James 3:1
I shall ask around you. What do Catholic teachers say it is?

Sir, I teach only what is written. So I do take my own advice.

Please do not think that because I am Catholic that I agree with everything that comes out of Rome. That is not the case with most American Catholics.
 
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