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Are there self evident truthes

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by osgart, May 24, 2019.

  1. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    If a person thinks long and hard on their entire own will they eventually come to truthes that are self evident?

    Or perhaps whatever is true is relative to the person and their situation. In which case anything goes and the ends justify the means.

    My conviction is that moral truthes are self evident. Virtues are self evident. And what is vice becomes apparent.

    My conviction is that people have the capacity to become certain attributes of character of their own choosing.

    People fall into all kinds of trouble because of boredom and danger, risk and rewards, temptation and ignorance, greed and carelessness, lack of sufficient resources and desparation, false pride and hatred.

    Everybody needs a clean place and space of their own. An environment they can organize and control. Relationships that would benefit their causes of survival and prosperity.

    Everything of civilization depends on trust, and trustworthiness. If we are not consistent in our attitudes, values, behaviours, sincerity towards others, and persistence in what is good things will fall apart. And its all about doing right things even when you are the only one doing them.

    So live or die many people have the deepest commitment to right doing even in the face of total chaos and anarchy. Because in right doing there is fulfillment, and quality of life.

    But its more than the self reasons that people do right things, its love of others and self.

    So i see two divergent paths in life, a right way and a wrong way.
     
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  2. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    This broader view best applies to my thinking.

    1). Attitudes and values change.

    2). Define "And its all about doing right things even when you are the only one doing them".
     
  3. Workman

    Workman UNIQUE

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    Look at the skies and you will see birds flying...watch closer! Very close!..and tell me!..are they flying?

    Don’t listen to what your eyes are telling you! Believe in what you are seeing! Once you see it!. Than you will see EVERYTHING!..
     
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  4. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    1) How do values change? I value honesty and sincerity. That never changes.

    2) in whatever actions a person carries out it is either to the benefit, or detriment of society. So there is a greater good than just ourselves.
     
  5. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    I forgot to tell you good morning. :cookie:

    Philosophy is a great subject, isn't it?

    1. Ah, we're talking "core values". I misunderstood.

    2. I agree with more or less the premise but may question with the conclusion "So there is a greater good than just ourselves." depending on what it asserts.
     
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  6. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Good Morning!

    I just recently started reading philosophy.
    Not exactly sure which philosophers i want to read up on. Any suggestions. I bought a few books , nothing deep into the subject.
     
  7. bobhikes

    bobhikes infinitologist
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    I would disagree anything that is self evident has no real meaning to find truth one must question one's own beliefs and come to a world wide understanding. No two individuals are the same, to rely only on one's self meaning excludes everyone else.
     
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  8. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    I kind of like starting with Plato and Aristotle or earlier than that. There are a few general books which try to cover a lot of Philosophers and not just them too.
     
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  9. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Its true that to rely ONLY on one's self is not healthy and quite confining. I never said to do that. I merely indicated that there are truthes we can come to realize on our own.

    I am not suggesting for people to reinvent the wheel. If somebody has a better way, and more knowledge we should all take note and listen.
     
  10. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I have been listening to a podcast called "Philosophize This". And that is exactly where i started.
     
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  11. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Our brains are built to survive and reproduce in bands of hunter-gatherers. In Nature, organisms rarely develop unneeded capabilities. Our perception and analytic capabilities are limited.
    Many things that seem self-evident are not.
    What is self-evident to someone from culture A may seem absurd to someone from culture B.
    I don't see how your second sentence relates to the first.
    For example, the commutative law of addition seems self-evident. It also seems self-evident, in most cultures, that a far object appears smaller than an identical near object. What would these self-evident things have to do with ends justifying means or 'anything goes?
    It seems to me that moral truths are about the least self-evident of things. Mankind has been squabbling about morality for thousands of years, with so sign of the debate diminishing.
    You have a very simplistic, black-and-white concept of morality. Have you ever confronted any moral conundrums?
     
  12. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    What does this mean? How is listening to your eyes different from seeing, and what does seeing everything mean?

    Your senses don't paint a realistic picture of reality. Much of what you see is manufactured in your own head, and much that exists can't be seen, heard, tasted, &c.
     
  13. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Self evident truth: every material thing breaks down; IOW, no "thing" lasts forever. Therefore, live now.

    I think people can come up with that on their own.
     
  14. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    I don't see how this follows. How would you live differently if houses didn't eventually collapse, mountains were never worn down or the sun were never to burn out?

    And what about immaterial things? Many people live their lives cultivating immaterial things like souls or behaving so as to gain entrance to a realm where things never broke down.
     
  15. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    I wouldn't want to live in a world like that. Nothing has value.
    ;)
     
  16. bobhikes

    bobhikes infinitologist
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    And I am saying that it is not possible to come to any truth on your own. The only way to realize it is a truth is to observe and interact with others and things. Reading a book is interacting with the author. Going to school is interacting with the teachers and students. The more people and things you interact with the easier it is to find the truth. The more you shut others out or confine yourself the harder it is to find truth.
     
  17. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Value equates to impermanence?
    Why do so many people wish to get in to Heaven, then, where moth and rust don't corrupt?
     
  18. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Impermanence ( aka rarity ) is what creates value.
    The grass appears greener on the other side?

    Both answers are IMHO :)
     
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  19. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Existence requires effort. None of us knows why.
    The effort can be diminished when we cooperate, but is increased when we compete.

    These are things that appear to be 'self-evident', to me.
     
    #19 PureX, May 24, 2019
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  20. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    You have to make the distinction between moral relativism, and moral absolutism. Physical truthes aside. If everything is relative to the situation and there are no moral absolutes than nothing is impeding you from taking license to stealing, and hoarding, then whatever you decide to do is good if you benefit from it.

    I have faced a few moral conundrums in my life. And i would have been better off if i stuck to my ideals then enter into certain relationships that i had no virtue basis for entering into them. The only relationships i value are the ones i entered into based on virtue.
     
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