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Are there logical, ethical reasons for Senators to not impeach?

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by icehorse, Feb 13, 2021.

  1. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    It seems pretty clear that trump will not be voted "guilty" by the senate. It appears to me that he's clearly guilty, and that the reason he'll be acquitted is because of party politics.

    So zooming out, I'm trying to be more gracious towards the GOP senators who will vote to acquit and see if I can discover any logical, ethical reasons for such votes.

    One idea is that a GOP senator of good conscious *might* believe that the risk of a guilty verdict could result in a civil war. I don't think that's a very good argument, but I can imagine it.

    Can anyone think of other logical and ethical reasons a senator might vote to acquit trump?
     
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  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist You are safe

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    (Edit) I don't see the point since he's no longer president. Unless he broke the law like every other US citizen would be take up consequences for, it sounds like people just can't drop it.
     
  3. Quetzal

    Quetzal A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
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    The precedent is interesting. This seems pretty severe, so if this doesn't qualify, what does?
     
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  4. The Hammer

    The Hammer White Wolf - kvite ulfh
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    He broke the law in Office, therefore should be tried via the means of charging someone in an official capacity. Wouldn't be the first person impeached while out of office, for what the did while in, that precedent was set a long time ago.

    Meet the other American who was impeached and tried after leaving office
     
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  5. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Depends on your ethical basis. If your moral system is built on the primacy of loyalty to your group (a.k.a. tribalism), any defection must be seen as immoral.
     
  6. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    To explore your point further, a senator swears to uphold the Constitution. I don't believe they swear to defend their party. So shouldn't their group loyalty be for the country, not the party?
     
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  7. Laika

    Laika Well-Known Member
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    1. Republicans are receiving death threats.

    ‘He Won’t Last Until the Primary’: Republicans Who Voted to Impeach Getting Death Threats

    2. And Trump has extremely high approval ratings amongst Republicans (70%-80%) even with a significant drop after the coup attempt, meaning they would lose any attempt at re-election if they voted against him.

    Why Trump is still a problem for the GOP establishment - CNNPolitics
     
  8. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    Why strain yourself? Those senators don't need a valid logical or ethical reason. And that's a negative effect of a weak decision-making process.
     
  9. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    The party is the one who got them their position (and, of course, their donors who paid for their campaign). Those who voted for them are a minority with little power.
    Also, since their party is best at ruling the country, what is good for the party must be good for the country.
     
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  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Is it possible to consider your question, & provide
    an answer without being called "Trump supporter!"?
    This scenario has not gone well on RF, despite the
    fact that some questions have answers not based
    upon one's liking the possible answers.

    Is the question for real, or is it a trap?
     
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  11. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Uh oh.
    Let me just say that I want Trump to never
    have any political power ever again.
     
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  13. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Expecting logical or ethical behavior from the republicans in the senate is a fools errand. They have long since forfeited both in their quest to stay in power.
     
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  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    You've answered my question.
     
  15. tarasan

    tarasan Well-Known Member

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    Because the left will only get good things when they behave...
     
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  16. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Logically, if the republicans in the senate convicted Trump, many of THEM could also be accused of the same insurrection, and be held accountable. As they echoed Trumps lies right up until, and even during the assault on the Capital.
     
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  17. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    The OP was sincere. If a senator votes to acquit, I would REALLY like to know if they might have logical and ethical reasons to do so.

    So, for example:

    - death threats: logical, but IMO not ethical
    - party lines: logical, but not ethical
     
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  18. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    As a matter of fact, yes. There could indeed be logical and ethical reasons for Senators to vote contrary to the justice of any impeachment trial. It's not hard to see them.

    Suppose the Senators had sufficient evidence to understand that a vote against the grain of justice was the way to avoid a Civil War. Or any number of similar 'tough calls'.

    Obviously, those kinds of assessments are highly circumstantial and probabilistic. They are far more like judging what the odds are that something will happen under a given set of circumstances than they are hard and fast rules about what is right or wrong, or who is guilty or not guilty.

    But there's no way of arguing that a significant risk to the lives of at least hundreds of thousands of Americans ought NOT to be factored into the question of which way to vote. Especially by people elected to represent the interests of the people.

    Just for fun, does the fact the Framers of the Constitution assigned the Senate, and not the Supreme Court, the chore of trying presidents strike you as making some sense when looked at in the above context?

    Took a university course in how justices handle political aspects of the cases they decide. Basically, the Court is a political animal, but a political animal that's has intentionally been partly fortified against too easily succumbing to political pressure.
     
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  19. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    I see more possible reasons.
    Well, it's moot now that he's acquitted.
    I dodged that bullet, eh.
     
  20. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    I'm sincerely interested in a few examples from today..

    I think the question is still very pertinent. Will the 43 senators who voted to acquit be vilified in history, or are there some good reasons (as I'm saying logical AND ethical), to cut these acquitters some slack?
     
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