Are there heathen groups that take pride without racism ?

[HeatyHeathen]

Well, thats basically the main point of my post here, since I see that many Recon Pagan worship groups world-wide are almost hard set on a Extreme rootless Universalism X Violent nazi racist dichotomy, which I think is quite unreasonable. Like I said in my introductory post, I sincerely believe that a person can have a healthy and needed amount of pride in his or her roots without hating anyone.

I can't believe that there are absolutely no people who share this same kind of thought as me that have formed a heath, kindred or even association.

 

[Quintessence]

It's important to keep in mind that what we see represented online is often the extreme splits in a demographic because that's what is loudest and commands the most attention. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Heathen community has moderates on this issue, but as someone who isn't plugged into that community, I can't speak directly on it. What I have observed is ancestor worship in other traditions, which definitely amounts to pride in one's roots without incorporating racist sentiment. It's not hard, and it probably isn't uncommon either (at least not in my experience).

In my own tradition, ancestor worship has a broader context than it does for many contemporary Pagans. Since I'm deeply influenced by the life sciences I view it from the context of all biodiversity on the planet. For me, ancestors doesn't just mean human but all things within the Weave both living and non-living. Recognition of that interconnectivity and interdependency doesn't leave much room for hatred. That's not to say I don't have preferences like any other human, but I can't muster specism, much less racism.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

It's my experience that racist groups are the vast minority. They're just loud.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

What does that have to do with Heathenry?

 

[HeatyHeathen]

Again, Hinduism. We have people from many races. Aboriginal stock, Aryans, Dravidians, Tibeto-Bermans and some from Iran (West) too.
Ancestor worship is as important as the worship of Gods and Goddesses in India, otherwise we are termed ungrateful. Tomorrow is Makar Sankranti (Sun's transit into Capricorn). I will need to get up early in the morning, take bath, ask for blessings from my ancestors and give charity in their name.

https://www.google.co.in/search?biw...ffngoHnAhUqxjgGHbmQCcoQ4dUDCAY&uact=5#imgrc=_

Thats very impressing. I always had the idea that most Indian and Hindu people were either Dravidians or Aryans. I guess they actually meant it when they called it the Indian Subcontinent

 

[Aupmanyav]

What does that have to do with Heathenry?

Who is a heathen? One who follows his native religion and has not ever changed it.

 

[Quintessence]

Who is a heathen? One who follows his native religion and has not ever changed it.

That's not the Heathenry we're talking about in this thread, Aup. This is what this thread is about - Heathenry (new religious movement) - Wikipedia

I was also unaware you identify with the contemporary Pagan movement. Insert obligatory DIR reminder here.

 

[HeatyHeathen]

It's important to keep in mind that what we see represented online is often the extreme splits in a demographic because that's what is loudest and commands the most attention. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Heathen community has moderates on this issue, but as someone who isn't plugged into that community, I can't speak directly on it. What I have observed is ancestor worship in other traditions, which definitely amounts to pride in one's roots without incorporating racist sentiment. It's not hard, and it probably isn't uncommon either (at least not in my experience).

Thats a very comforting thing to hear !!! If you dont mind, could you tell more about any of such communities if you so know any ?

I find it very hard to separate the wheat from the chaff because many racist Heathen/Asatru groups dont say they are that way out loud and may even accept someone whos not 100% Aryan descended like me, but would eventually just use my presence as a cloak of a token "minority".

 

[Quintessence]

Thats a very comforting thing to hear !!! If you dont mind, could you tell more about any of such communities if you so know any?

I'm not as plugged in to the communities as I used to be, but I recall in Druidry the various orders by and large regard honoring the ancestors as one of many possible practices that can be incorporated into one's traditions. And that really is the focus - honoring the ancestors - not so much the sort of prideful gloating that can lead to the holier-than-thou attitude and shunning of those who have different ancestry than you do. In some Druidic traditions, honoring the ancestors helps guide what historical pantheons you work with. In others it's a simple acknowledgement of where we come from and how the legacy of the past shapes the present.

I read a lot of John Beckett's blog over at Patheos in part because his practice pretty closely aligns with mine. Here's a few words he wrote on the topic:

"Our contemporary families are more complicated than strict bloodlines. We have adopted families, blended families, and chosen families. Sometimes we use different vocabulary, but it’s always been this way, with marriages, fosterage, and associations so tight they were called brotherhoods and sisterhoods. Those who came before us in these relationships are our ancestors too, and they are as deserving of our honor as our ancestors of blood."
From - A Foundation of Mighty Ancestors
​

I like this passage because it reflects how the concept of ancestry largely transends our cultural construct of "race."

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thats a very comforting thing to hear !!! If you dont mind, could you tell more about any of such communities if you so know any ?

I find it very hard to separate the wheat from the chaff because many racist Heathen/Asatru groups dont say they are that way out loud and may even accept someone whos not 100% Aryan descended like me, but would eventually just use my presence as a cloak of a token "minority".

Unless you're Iranian, you're not "Aryan" anyway. I'm half black and half white. I'm proud of my heritage and denounce racism. I'm not part of any group, though. A lot of groups will have web pages with info on them where they make their stances known. The Throth is a well-known anti-raciet group. There's groups affliated with Heathens Against Hate, as well.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Who is a heathen? One who follows his native religion and has not ever changed it.

I'd like to look into the use and etymology of that word, I suspect it was used moreso to identify outsiders of christiantiy 1000 years ago rather than to identify a specific religion. I could be wrong

 

[Politesse]

Shout out to the Alliance for Inclusive Heathenry and Heathens United Against Racism.

Odin wanders far.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I'd like to look into the use and etymology of that word, I suspect it was used moreso to identify outsiders of christiantiy 1000 years ago rather than to identify a specific religion. I could be wrong

Are we really going to get into this...?

Just follow the wikipedia link that Quintessence gave. It offers a very succinct rundown of the modern religious movement - of which this DIR is built for - not the archaic derogatory term used by Christians.

 

[HeatyHeathen]

Unless you're Iranian, you're not "Aryan" anyway.

Not trying to start a argue but so far I've learned from books that "Aryan" was the old-timey denomination of caucasoid people, that developed mainly around the Indo-Iranian Plateau, probably the reason theres a intersection between these two denominations. But I might be wrong and it was just the Nazis definition of it.

 

[Hildeburh]

Not trying to start a argue but so far I've learned from books that "Aryan" was the old-timey denomination of caucasoid people, that developed mainly around the Indo-Iranian Plateau, probably the reason theres a intersection between these two denominations. But I might be wrong and it was just the Nazis definition of it.

The True Aryans: Who Were They Really and How Were Their Origins Corrupted?

 

[Hildeburh]

Well, thats basically the main point of my post here, since I see that many Recon Pagan worship groups world-wide are almost hard set on a Extreme rootless Universalism X Violent nazi racist dichotomy, which I think is quite unreasonable. Like I said in my introductory post, I sincerely believe that a person can have a healthy and needed amount of pride in his or her roots without hating anyone.

I can't believe that there are absolutely no people who share this same kind of thought as me that have formed a heath, kindred or even association.

Heathenry is an umbella term, the 2013 census listed the following as included under the term, though it is by no means an exhaustive list:

Anglo-Saxon Heathenry, Ásatrú, Asatro, Firne Sitte, Forn Sed, Forn Siðr, Germanic Heathenry, Germanic Neopaganism, Germanic Paganism, Heathenism, Heathenry, Norse Paganism, Norse Religion, Northern Tradition, Odinism, Old Way, Theodism, Urglaawe, Vanatru.

The majority in the community are universalist but the folkish minority are loud.There are groups within Heathenry that oppose the folkish ideology. Their websites for anyone interested are:

https://www.heathensagainst.org/
Heathens United Against Racism
Vikings Against Racism
Alliance for Inclusive Heathenry

I completely agree that one can have a focus on ancestors, kin and country of origin without resorting racist ideologies. Reconstructionism is a methodology used to anchor modern practice in what is known about pre-Christian Germanic folkways it is not dogma nor should it include modern racist ideologies.