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Featured Are There Any Religious Ascetics On These Forums?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Elihoenai, May 16, 2022.

  1. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Member

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    You are not providing much details about this Pure Unadorned Personal Faith that you call it. Given your answer to Want and Need question 1 it sounds like you are having Recreational Sex. Is that correct? Do you Fast? Is your Faith Sensual? The Left-Hand Religious Path is Sensual.

    It also sounds like you retreat from Worldliness for a period of time and return to embrace Worldliness and keep going back and forth. It appears to be a half-way house.
     
  2. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Member

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    Yes, Flagellation is practised by Niche Roman Catholic Religious Orders, such as, Opus Dei.

    Why mortification in Opus Dei?


    Opus Dei and the Da Vinci Code - Channel4 2005


    Catholic flagellants walk barefoot to mark Easter
     
    #42 Elihoenai, May 28, 2022
    Last edited: May 28, 2022
  3. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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  4. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Northern scum

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    I'd hope there is a middle way between total hedonism and total asceticism. Who wants this? -

    - Buddhist Monks Self-Mummified Their Bodies While Still Alive
     
  5. Hermit Philosopher

    Hermit Philosopher Selflessly here for you

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    I don’t in fact usually call my faith anything other than faith. What I meant is that it is “pure” in that it is unadorned by ritual, ceremony, religious symbols, etc, and that it is “personal” in that it is not practiced in, or preached about to a parish and, in the sense that I was not born into it.


    I do not think I follow your reasoning here.


    I do not mean to offend, but has it occurred to you that you do ask an awful lot about sex?

    If I need to because of lack, I use transcendence against the sense of hunger and abstain from food, but otherwise I find that for me, eating one light meal per day is ideal for mind and body.

    I could not call my faith “sensual”, I don’t think. On the one hand, it is abstract, immaterial and deeply spiritual; on the other, it is practical - in that it is expressed in servitude to others.


    I do not know what so say to this.
    Just did not want to leave it out in case you thought I’d not read it.


    Humbly
    Hermit
     
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  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    The Baha'i Faith teaches moderation in all things which can be viewed as the middle way.
    Asceticism was prohibited by Baha'u'llah.

    "These verses constitute the prohibition of monasticism and asceticism. See the Synopsis and Codification, section IV.D.1.y.iii.-iv. In the Words of Paradise Bahá'u'lláh amplifies these provisions. He states: "Living in seclusion or practising asceticism is not acceptable in the presence of God," and He calls upon those involved to "observe that which will cause joy and radiance". He instructs those who have taken up "their abodes in the caves of the mountains" or who have "repaired to graveyards at night" to abandon these practices, and He enjoins them not to deprive themselves of the "bounties" of this world which have been created by God for humankind. And in the Tablet of Bishárát, while acknowledging the "pious deeds" of monks and priests, Bahá'u'lláh calls upon them to "give up the life of seclusion and direct their steps towards the open world and busy themselves with that which will profit themselves and others". He also grants them leave "to enter into wedlock that they may bring forth one who will make mention of God"."
    (Notes to the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, no. 61)

    "Regarding your questions: by holiness in our Bahá'í teachings is meant attachment to God, His Precepts and His Will. We are not ascetics in any sense of the word. On the contrary, Bahá'u'lláh says God has created all the good things in the world for us to enjoy and partake of. But we must not become attached to them and put them before the spiritual things."
    (On behalf of Shoghi Effendi, Light of Divine Guidance, vol. 2, p. 71)

    From: Asceticism - Bahai9
     
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  7. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Member

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  8. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Member

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    The Sokushinbutsu Path is the Inverse of the Christian Path. The former Preserves the Body while the latter Destroys the Body.

    The more Extreme you are demonstrates greater Commitment and Conviction of your beliefs. Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ is on the Absolute Polar Opposite spectrum of the Cross to Marquis de Sade Inverted Cross.

    I live in a Marquis de Sade Stronghold area. This has been Ordained by Elohim/God.
     
    #48 Elihoenai, May 30, 2022
    Last edited: May 30, 2022
  9. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Member

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    Again you have not provided any info about what you are actually practising. For example, I asked in Want and Need question 4 about meat and you gave reply stating eating is a need. That didn't answer the question.



    There is a reason for it. Recreational Sex is Sex for Pleasure without intention to procreate. Do you have Recreational Sex?



    Therefore, are you saying that you don't practise Fasting as a regular Discipline?



    How do you define Worldliness? It appears you have redefined what it means to be a Hermit.
     
  10. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Member

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    Different Religious perspectives on Asceticism are very much appreciated.
     
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  11. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    After the Dan Brown's movie The Da Vinci Code, the Opus Dei cult stated it no longer practiced self flagellation.
     
  12. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Member

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    Do you believe that a movie and public opinion would make a Powerful Religious Order like Opus Dei give up hundreds of years tradition Self-Flagellation?

    Powerful Roman Catholic Religious Orders, such as, Knights Templar/Freemason, Opus Dei and Society of Jesus don't bow to public opinion. To the contrary, they control pubic opinion and Rule over the Masses. They practice Pure Religion.
     
  13. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    No, it simply brough to light what once was, and is no longer, it had been discontinued long before any movie depicted it.

    Self-flagellation - Wikipedia
     
    #53 pearl, Jun 1, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
  14. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Member

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    @pearl, Are you saying Rev. Michael Barrett of Opus Dei is lying when he tells that Corporal Mortification/Self-Flagellation has been practised in the Church for centuries? Are you saying that Opus Dei is lying about continuation of the unbroken Self-Flagellation practice over hundreds of years?

    Why mortification in Opus Dei?



    Opus Dei and Corporal Mortification


    17/05/2006

    "The Da Vinci Code has drawn attention to the Catholic custom of corporal mortification. Rev. Michael Barrett, a priest of Opus Dei, answers questions...."

    Opus Dei and Corporal Mortification - Opus Dei



    Corporal Mortification

    The Church prescribes fasting on certain days and recommends that the faithful practice other sorts of mortification as well. Fr. John Wauck, a priest of Opus Dei, speaks about mortification.

    Corporal Mortification - Opus Dei


    Corporal Mortification/Self-Flagellation is Zealously Practised by Powerful Elite members of the Roman Catholic Church.
     
  15. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    Simply stating their immediate reaction to the media hype was that they no longer practiced what was depicted of them in Brown's movie.
     
  16. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Member

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    Why would they abandon hundreds of years tradition Self-Flagellation? Do you have proof that Opus Dei no longer practice Self-Flagellation?
     
  17. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    It was a widespread practice in some parts of the Catholic ministry up to the 1960s but is uncommon today, says Professor Michael Walsh, a Catholic historian.
    BBC News - Why do some Catholics self-flagellate?
     
  18. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Member

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    That news article is agreeing with what I said about the Self-Flagellation being practiced by small number of Powerful Roman Catholic Elites. The Conservative Roman Catholic Religious Orders with greater commitment to Christian Doctrine. It also raised that in some cultures may be more prevalent than others comparing Asia and Europe.

    Have you seen the movie First Reformed? If yes, do you understand why the Self-Flagellation would be so extreme? Answer can be provided without movie spoilers.
     
  19. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    No, I have not seen it but I did just read up on it.
    First Reformed - Wikipedia

    I guess Toiler should have stayed with Thomas Merton or The Cloud of Unknowing, suppposedly written by a 16th century monk. A copy of which was found in a monastery in Spencer Massachusetts. It was a priest living an the monastery who introduced our parish to 'centering prayer',
    I'm not sure I would make the connection with self flagellation. It seems more of a statement as to the world being without hope.
     
  20. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Member

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    The Self-Flagellation depicted in the film is Penance. From an Ultra Conservative perspective it is not extreme enough.




    Do you practice Centering Prayer? Are you a Mystic? How do you view Self-Flagellation?
     
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