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Are theists more violent than atheists?

Are theists or atheists more violent?

  • Theists are more violent

    Votes: 6 15.4%
  • Atheists are more violent

    Votes: 2 5.1%
  • Theists and atheists are equally violent

    Votes: 9 23.1%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 13 33.3%
  • We can't possibly know one way or another

    Votes: 4 10.3%
  • This poll does not reflect my thinking

    Votes: 5 12.8%

  • Total voters
    39

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
No doubt, but would you steal a penny as described, or not?
This is like three times I asked.

Having the luxury of never being in that situation I would say, no, I would not.
And I don't think my mother would have accepted it either.
If I can steal medicine then so too should anyone else. And the whole idea
of justified immorality becomes established.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
I'm very, very violent. Very violent. :mad:

It's just who I am as a person.
20210117_180831.jpg
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
So you would refuse to steal a penny if it could save a child from being tortured to death.

A human court would find you as guilty,
as much of a monster as the murderer.

Yes, for sure, the Western world is heading down that track.
There is no 'right' and 'wrong' and everyone does what is
right in their own eyes.
And the penny-medicine 'argument' is applied to everything.
And not just to steal medicine, maybe to kill for medicine.
Slippery slope arguments are a form of fallacy, but as shown
in my Gallop figures below - the fallacy really does apply when
it comes to moral issues.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
A theocracy isn't "rulee by God" it's the name of a government ruled by priests/prophets or other similar religious figure in the name of God/gods. The Vatican is a theocracy as is Iran for example.

My definition of a "theocracy" is that which originally governed ancient Israel.....Christendom established her own definition later. It was exclusive rule by God in the beginning, with Yahweh as their only King and law-giver. And even when they demanded a human king, against God's advice, since he warned them of the consequences, God still ruled as long as their king remained obedient to the laws that God had established through Moses. The priesthood was there to organize the worship of the people and to offer the sacrifices in atonement to Yahweh in a prescribed manner.
God has always operated through his chosen representatives in an organized way.

Actually the Bible as you know it is younger than the Catholic Church and its rituals and funny hats. The worship of early Christians was mostly based on "charismatic preachings", oral tradition Gospels (as they were not fully written and distributed yet) and ritualised prayers.

The Catholic Church is an end product rather than a beginning. An apostasy was foretold by Jesus and his apostles, and it reared its ugly head even in their day. Once their restraining in influence was removed (upon their death) the "weeds" quickly took over....and they came to be viewed as "wheat". But they never were as Jesus' statement regarding the judgment reveals....

Matthew 7:21-23...
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

If Jesus NEVER knew those ones who address him as their Lord, and point to the things they did "in his name" , what were they doing wrong? They are shocked at his rejection of them....so just calling yourself a Christian and being able to expel demons, prophesy and demonstrate "mighty works" will not mean that they are "doing the will of Jesus' Father".

Your Bible was selected and edited during a Catholic Church council and was still debated for centuries. Revelation, for example, became part of the official canon in the middle-ages and wasn't accepted by the main Christian denomination until the Reform era. Even today, Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic and Syriac Churches have a few books different in their Bibles.

My Bible? I thought it was God's word.....no matter how they believe that they arrived at their choices, the Bible is not the product of "the church." They were merely used to compile its contents. No Catholics or church Fathers were used to write a single word. Every penman was a Jew.

Actually, he did recommand for Christian not to live amongst non-Christian or at least seperated and cloistered from them and live a communal life of sharing everything amongst each other, contemplation, prayer and charity. The monastic tradition is older than both the Catholic Church and your Bible by almost 2 centuries. The first traces of monastic Christianism are the Desert Father and were living life of hermits, sometime accompanied by close friends and familly members, emulating Jesus' time in the wilderness.

Since being a Christian placed you under obligation to preach to unbelievers, (Matthew 28:19-20) separating yourself from them was not something the apostles did or recommended. Paul was assigned as "an apostle to the nations"....so none of the apostles were ever cloistered away from those who needed to hear the "good news of the Kingdom".

Romans 10:9-15....
"For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.

11 For the scripture says: “No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”


We are not to be "unevenly yoked with unbelievers"...which means that we do not seek unbelievers out as close companions, but we are not to close ourselves off from people because we have an obligation to offer them something better for the future. God wants everyone to hear the good news?

2 Peter 3:9...
"....[God] is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance."

This has to be our free willed choice.....we have two. Repentant.....or be destroyed. That's it.[/quote]
 
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epronovost

Well-Known Member
My definition of a "theocracy" is that which originally governed ancient Israel.....

Ancient Israel never was a "theocracy" it was a monarchy and a protectorate of Egypt for a while before turning into an Assyrian and later still Persian protectorate. The priesthood never ruled the region alone let alone "Yaweh" himself since he's by and large a mythological character nor the only divinity of the region and his priesthood alone. Ashera for example was venerated until the Roman actually took over the region.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
My calling your sickening excuse for "morality"
for what it is leaves you with nothing in your brain
but to call me a potty mouth.

Never said that, I am sorry if you got that impression.
This video particularly offends me because it sums
up what I am saying - some feel that an 'injustice'
excuses behavior. Ends justifies the means stuff.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
The abnormal level of sexual and child abuse within Jehovah's Witnesses communities would say otherwise. Though this might be due to their insularity.

You know. I would like to read up on this. Is there anything to share for info for the curious?
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Like conservative Christians aren't doing the same;


Didn't watch it all but I get your drift. The fact that I take extreme offense at our
potty princesses doesn't mean I support this lunatic Trump and his warriors.
If this riot is anything like the London riots then they will track most of these
people down, and charge them. And I hope they charge them good and proper.

Princesses and warriors are the same to me - they hate the established order
of things.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
The abnormal level of sexual and child abuse within Jehovah's Witnesses communities would say otherwise. Though this might be due to their insularity.
“Abnormal level”....that’s creative.

From the very Wikipedia article you yourself posted:
“...there is no indication that the rate of sexual abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses is higher than found in general society.”

Your disingenuousness toward us is really helping to prove the veracity of Jesus’ words.
Thank you, my cousin.
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
What about the New Testaments (Paul) condemnation of homosexuals and those so called "effeminate men"? Does that resonate with you or do you condemn that type of thought?

I live in a secular society where the vast majority of the population regularly consume alcohol and many couples life together with children without being married. This is all legal yet contrary to the principles I uphold. Similarly homosexual marriage is legal. So while I abstain from alcohol and did not cohabit with my partner until we were married, these are not values shared by the majority of the population. Most couples who marry will have cohabited together before deciding to wed. However I don’t judge people by the values and laws I believe to be from God.

The verse of Paul from Corinthians in regards effeminate men is intriguing and has been the source of much discussion as to its meaning. Is it the passive partner in a homosexual relationship or something else? I’m not sure but believe both the Hebrew Bible and New Testament forbade sexual relationships other than those between a married man and women. However its up to each of us to investigate what if anything constitutes God’s guidances and whether or not to follow it. The society where I live doesn’t collectively recognise such guidance, yet the people have many admirable qualities. They are my friends.

Hope that makes sense.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Gonna be honest - I just troll voted on the poll because I think this is an utterly terrible question.

Suppose this is true or false one way or another. Then what? We round up everyone in the "wrong" group and reeducate them, lock them up, or straight up kill them?

Considering there's no real distinction between "atheist" and "theist" - "god" can be literally anything and literally anyone can be rationalized as being in both categories - that wouldn't go well. Some questions are simply not worth being asked because the answer to them is functionally meaningless beyond encouraging snap judgement bigotry.

Its not a meaningless question for me and I doubt it is for some others who have participated. But I can see the question has irked you to some extent that you choose to respond as you have. So far in the poll nearly 80% of nearly 40 participants have refrained from identifying theism or atheism as predominantly more violent. So if my question has encouraged ‘judgemental bigotry’, most have avoided that particular rabbit hole. Thanks for your honesty all the same.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Or are atheists more violent than theists?

How can we know? Can we know?

What is the evidence one way or another?
I'm not aware of any polls / statistics about being violent in particular.
But just about all statistics show that theists are more likely to be involved in crime in general then atheists.

That doesn't necessarily mean they are also more likely to be involved in violence off course. But usually crime and violence tend to go hand in hand, so I would expect that yes, theists are more likely to be violent.
 
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