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Featured Are theists dumb by default?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by firedragon, Apr 29, 2021.

?
  1. Yes

  2. No

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  1. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    If you are part of RF and explore this forum a bit, you would notice that since of recent times the frequency of Atheists alluding to theists as dumb. A lot of circumventing language will probably be used to call them plain dumb. Some claim they are mentally handicapped, and some "uneducated", while some others even go into calling theists by statements such as delusional and intellectually stunted, which are all statements used to plainly call theists "dumb" and maybe even just plain "stupid".

    Of course there will be some atheists who would say "not all atheists do this" which is true.

    I would like to understand if there are any proper research done in modern times, and in retrospect that atheists who claim to be "scientific" would have to contribute to this discussion. The world has people from all walks of life and progress or even science has and will swing this way and that way in advancement. Todays big shot may not be tomorrows. For example, the UK was the empire where the sun never sets, and now the United States which is a fairly new country maybe a few hundred times more sophisticated in military and economic spreading of their wings. Some time ago, it was the Ottoman Empire. Long ago it was the Romans. Well, this could go on, and you get the gist.

    Thus, are there any good researches done that could contribute to this discussion, this way or that way?

    (I will just for the sake of it put up a poll here though I believe they contain a lot of baggage, hawthorn effects, and voters cloud).

    Thanks in advance.
     
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  2. Jaiket

    Jaiket Well-Known Member
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    Nope. The idea that theists are dumb by virtue of being theists is itself a silliness. One of the things that helped me get through my dogmatic atheist mentality was the realisation that there are theists who are much more mentally nimble than I am.
     
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  3. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Theists aren't dumb. I would never refer to any sort of lack of mental capability - because it is simply not true. Rather, I feel the "problem" that presents itself often in the thinking and presentation from some theists (usually the loudest of the bunch) takes the form of their being very interested in confirming their own biases. If they believe it (whether by nurture or having come to it "on their own" [note that I don't believe such to be possible unless one is literally forming their own, brand-new religion]), then they are damned if anyone is going to persuade them otherwise (even to simply NOT believing it, rather than accepting some alternative explanation for X). It is probably part related to pride, part desire to save face (once one has already expressed they're "all-in"), part discomfort with not having a ready "answer" for big questions, part liking the idea of their being some grand "theatre" aspect to it all, part not liking what they would likely consider a "mundane" existence without all the supernatural excitement, etc. etc. etc. I am sure there are plenty of reasons the theist sinks their teeth in and gnashes voraciously at anyone asking to examine the bone they're clamped down on. I see it often enough that I am very interested to understand the phenomenon - especially given the modern social climate - within which competing (or lateral yet incompatible) beliefs are on display for all to see - all with the same sorts and caliber of evidence - all adhered to with as much fervor as the theist has for their own belief - all ultimately just belief, the evidence for which is always entirely insufficient.
     
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  4. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    For a comment like that, let me try and respond.

    I believe that sometimes truly crude criticism, true or false can result in people waking up. I agree with you that it is utterly nonsensical to make claims like theists are naturally stupid simply because they are theists, just the same way someone may say atheists dont have morals because they are atheists. Yet, I do believe that the Atheists having a go at the theists has an effect on the theists, and they are starting to wake up.

    Also, one must note that there are atheists who are scholars in the Bible lets say who are fantastic in their scholarship, genuine approach and value. Strangely there are some atheistic scholars of the Bible who are more conservative than even Christian scholars. Yep, that's ironic. But the point is made hoping you understand.

    Respect.
     
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  5. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    With a rare exception, I honestly don't see this to be the case here.

    With all due respect, I think what you're doing here is comparable to a black person saying white people are racist.
     
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  6. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Great post I must say.

    Yet, I think I can make the statements you made about theists and their biases, to the atheists as well. This is a general statement but obviously all theists or atheists dont fall into this. But Atheists have their biases too in my opinion.
     
  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Great. Thanks.
     
  8. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    You're quite welcome. :)
     
  9. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I think theists are not necessarily dumb but rather so emotionally blind to facts that dumb things are regarded as valid.

    Just as love is blind, so can wanting something to be true so bad, it just can't be any other way.
     
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  10. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Intelligence has nothing necessarily to do with being dogmatic/opinionated. If someone wants to cast aspersions on someone else because of his belief or lack thereof, calling someone 'closed minded' or 'stubborn' has the virtue of being more accurate even if it's wrong.
     
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  11. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    So basically they are dumb, said in a different way. :)
     
  12. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Well let's just say it's not smart to believe in something that simply isn't true.
     
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  13. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    There are strict atheists and strict christians that think its their way or no way, thinking they have all the answers.
    In my opinion they live in a box and nothing outside their box matters. Closed minded people have learning limits. They are dumb by default.

    There are a lot of open minded people regardless of being religious or non-religious who look outside the box seeking more information. In my opinion they realize not everything is set in stone. These people know there is more to learn and seek it. They are not dumb by default.
     
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  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Alright. Lets take this a little out of the socket.

    Which "belief" and what "isn't true" and how is it not true and whats the evidence?
     
  15. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    To say theists are dumb is veiling the cause and the effect. It's more likely that dumb people are theists.
     
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  16. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Look up any Noah's ark thread in the archives. There are dozens of them.

    It's self explanatory.
     
  17. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    See, what I am trying to understand is if the atheists who make these claims have any research to back what they are saying.

    I get your point and agree with you. I would like to add that it is not just about being in a closed box, but also thinking every human being outside of that box are just plain dumb by default. The depth of this must be understood. It is not just that the one inside the box is thinking everyone else is dumb because they are inside the box with them. No no. They are all dumb in everything by nature because they are outside the box. Basically they are not just stupid for being outside, they are just plain stupid with a lack of intellect in everything including mathematics, science and whatever other things this in the box person thinks he has all.
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    No no. Thats the wrong example. Because Noahs arch is one thing, and this is why I wanted specifics from you. Also, I am not gonna go look in another thread for some vague comment you made TH.

    Lets say some Christians dogmatically believe a global flood and you absolutely have all the evidence to prove this never happened in the history of mankind (which I would like to see actually). But still, this will not make this theist stupid by nature. There were people who believed in this kind of thing but were pretty smart scientists who did inventions and what not. So I think this is plain wrong.
     
  19. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    What characteristics would define "dumb?"

    I think most criticism is directed to posters' assertions, rather than the poster himself.
    I think what mostly draws our criticism are some of the incorrect facts and logical errors underlying many of the assertions made by some of the more fundamentalist posters, and when they ignore corrections and continue to cite the same non-facts, and make the same errors, post after post, thread after thread, it gets frustrating.

    I'd have to have a more global knowledge of a poster than I get from a talkboard to judge his or her general intelligence. I can comment on specific assertions, though.

    As for uneducated, I think some of the posters do hold strong opinions on subjects they clearly don't understand, (I'm thinking specifically about evolutionary biology). They may be very well educated on other fronts, but their posts indicate that they're not educated in basic biology and, often, even in basic science.

    Delusional? Sorry, but some posters seem to be absolutely impervious to contrary facts, no matter how well supported.
    A delusion is a fixed belief impervious to contrary evidence. I would say some posters do conform to this definition, in certain, specific areas.
     
    #19 Valjean, Apr 29, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  20. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Ah. So what you are saying is that all the dumb people are theists and there are no dumb atheists in this world? Or are you saying that most of the dumb people are theists in this world?

    In that case, could you please provide the research as I had already said in the OP to prove that, which ever one of the above is your position?
     
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