Are the translators of the NWT infallible?

[Big_TJ]

JWs

Would love to get your views on this: Were the translators of the NWT was infallible?* Or furthermore, do you think that ANY translator(s) of ANY version of the bible were infallible? Would love you to state the reasons for your chosen answers.



*Infallible, meaning "Inability to err while translating the version of the bible"

 

[Pegg]

JWs

Would love to get your views on this: Were the translators of the NWT was infallible?* Or furthermore, do you think that ANY translator(s) of ANY version of the bible were infallible? Would love you to state the reasons for your chosen answers.



*Infallible, meaning "Inability to err while translating the version of the bible"

to claim infallibility would be akin to claiming perfection... and nobody's perfect.


No, the NWT translators are not infallible. Nor are any other translators. But one thing i know for sure, the NWT bible committee are honest and have worked hard for an accurate translation. Is it a perfect translation, no, but it doesnt have to be perfect to be accurate.

And if there is the need to revise or update it, ie if newer information comes to light on ancient languages, you can be 100% certain that the NWT will be one of the first to revise their bible.

 

[Big_TJ]

to claim infallibility would be akin to claiming perfection... and nobody's perfect.


No, the NWT translators are not infallible. Nor are any other translators. But one thing i know for sure, the NWT bible committee are honest and have worked hard for an accurate translation. Is it a perfect translation, no, but it doesnt have to be perfect to be accurate.

And if there is the need to revise or update it, ie if newer information comes to light on ancient languages, you can be 100% certain that the NWT will be one of the first to revise their bible.

Ok; that makes sense. So, just a follow up question: Do you think that God inspired the translators (of whichever version of the bible) the same way that he supposedly inspired the writers?

Thanks!

 

[natasha levchenko]

As the New World Bible Translation Committee acknowledges in the foreword to its work, it is “a very responsible thing” to translate the Holy Scriptures from their original languages into modern speech. The Committee goes on to say: “The translators of this work, who fear and love the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures, feel toward Him a special responsibility to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible.”

 

[Big_TJ]

As the New World Bible Translation Committee acknowledges in the foreword to its work, it is “a very responsible thing” to translate the Holy Scriptures from their original languages into modern speech. The Committee goes on to say: “The translators of this work, who fear and love the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures, feel toward Him a special responsibility to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible.”

Is this supposed to somehow answer the question that was asked? I am aware of that the foreword of the NWT says; I am very familiar with the NWT. What I asked was whether it is your opinion that translators were inspired just as how the original writers were inspired by God.

Respectfully.

 

[Pegg]

Ok; that makes sense. So, just a follow up question: Do you think that God inspired the translators (of whichever version of the bible) the same way that he supposedly inspired the writers?

Thanks!

to translate a written document of any sort, does not require one to be inspired.

God has already inspired his prophets to record his message and that is the message that is being translated today. So no translation is 'inspired' in the way the original writings were.

We can translate the inspired writings, but in no way does this make us, or any other translation committee, inspired.


Just to emphasise the point, our publictions directly say

God’s people today are not prophets. We are not inspired to add to Jehovah’s infallible words of truth found in the Bible. Still, we have been commissioned to preach the good news of the Kingdom all the days until the end of the system of things.

 

[Big_TJ]

to translate a written document of any sort, does not require one to be inspired.

God has already inspired his prophets to record his message and that is the message that is being translated today. So no translation is 'inspired' in the way the original writings were.

We can translate the inspired writings, but in no way does this make us, or any other translation committee, inspired.

Ok; that's what I thought. So here is the dilema that I have: If the bible is God's words, and he saw it important to use inspired men to write the words down originally, what is the JW's view on why God wouldnt have seen it equally important to use inpired men to translate it into other languages?

Would this not be a powerful argument to the view that God have never intended for the bible to be translated into different languages, essentially meaning that HE never intended it to be applicable outside the it's original language?

Thoughts please.

 

[Pegg]

Ok; that's what I thought. So here is the dilema that I have: If the bible is God's words, and he saw it important to use inspired men to write the words down originally, what is the JW's view on why God wouldnt have seen it equally important to use inpired men to translate it into other languages?

you really need to define what 'inspired' means in the context of translation.

When the bible writer says that it was Gods word that spoke to him, thats what 'inspired' means. It means God, in some way, gave him a message and the writer was compelled to put that message down in writing.

Now what happens to that original piece of writing is that a scribe would then begin making a copy of it. When he finished one copy, he would start making another copy of it. The scribe is not inspired, nor does he have to be directly asked or commissioned by God to make copies of the prophets writing.

And its the same with translators today. They are doing the same work that the ancient scribes did. They are making copies of the prophets writings. So they themselves do not need to be directly asked by God to do that work....they just need a good command of the languages for which they are copying them into.

Would this not be a powerful argument to the view that God have never intended for the bible to be translated into different languages, essentially meaning that HE never intended it to be applicable outside the it's original language?

Thoughts please.

I have two ways to reason on this.

Firstly, The jews were the first ones to translate the bible (hebrew scriptures) into other languages. When the jews became dispersed among the various nations, the need arose for them to learn the hebrew scriptures in the languages of the lands where they lived. Thats why we have the Greek Septuagint for example. The greek speaking jews needed Gods word in their own language so the priests organized for it to be translated.
And not all the bible books are written in Hebrew, some are in Greek, some in Aramaic and the rest in Hebrew.

So you would have to ask why God allowed his prophets (ie Daniel/Ezra/jeremiah) to write in a foreign tongue. To me it shows that language is no barrier for God to communicate to man. He is the God of all of us isnt he? And according to the bible, he gave us multiple languages.



Secondly,
If we examine what the bible actually says, it tells us that Gods plan is to gather all the nations together and to bring them back into unity with him. To teach them his laws and instruct them.
Revelation 7:9 After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.

For that to take place, is it not logical that he would need to communicate to them in their own languages? These people who are mentioned here are from every nation.... they have their own 'tongues' meaning languages. The only way they could have come to praise God is if they knew him and worshipped him in an approved way....and the only way to do that is to learn what that way of worship is.
.
This idea of 'all nations' is very prominent in the hebrew scriptures too as the following verses show:

Isaiah 2:2 And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance And the ends of the earth as your own possession.

Psalm 72:8 And he will have subjects from sea to sea And from the River to the ends of the earth.

Psalm 86:9 All the nations whom you have made will themselves come, And they will bow down before you, O Jehovah, And will give glory to your name.



When we examine your argument with the biblical facts, it doesnt appear to hold much water. A God of all Nations WOULD be able to communicate to them with his word the bible. Its actually a strong evidence that the bible really is a book from God. The fact that it is now available in 2000 languages and is accessible by 90% of earths population is astounding. No book in the history of books has come close to this sort of universality.

Its awe inspiring to see whats actually happening. .... sorry, i could go on and on couldnt I


I just love the watchtower organization...the work they are doing is a miracle.

 

[Big_TJ]

And its the same with translators today. They are doing the same work that the ancient scribes did. They are making copies of the prophets writings. So they themselves do not need to be directly asked by God to do that work....they just need a good command of the languages for which they are copying them into.

Yea; but why wouldnt God "inspire" the translation? If he didnt just allow the inspired writers to write down whatever they feel, why would God allows translators to translate it however they feel?

Firstly, The jews were the first ones to translate the bible (hebrew scriptures) into other languages. When the jews became dispersed among the various nations, the need arose for them to learn the hebrew scriptures in the languages of the lands where they lived. Thats why we have the Greek Septuagint for example. The greek speaking jews needed Gods word in their own language so the priests organized for it to be translated.
And not all the bible books are written in Hebrew, some are in Greek, some in Aramaic and the rest in Hebrew.

Well, whether the Jews first translate it is irrelevant - it is still clear that God did not inspire or guide those translations. Secondly, this could be evidence that the portion of bible written in Hebrew was intended only for Hebrew-speaking individuals; the portion in Greek intended for only Greek-speaking persons, and the portion in Aramaic intended only for aramaic-speaking individuals. What do you think?

So you would have to ask why God allowed his prophets (ie Daniel/Ezra/jeremiah) to write in a foreign tongue. To me it shows that language is no barrier for God to communicate to man. He is the God of all of us isnt he? And according to the bible, he gave us multiple languages.

But language IS a barrier. Firstly, I (and probably you) cannot read the original scriptures. Secondly, we have to rely on translations done by persons who were not guided (or inspired) by God.

Secondly,
If we examine what the bible actually says, it tells us that Gods plan is to gather all the nations together and to bring them back into unity with him. To teach them his laws and instruct them.

etc, etc

All those scriptures are irrelevant. None of them indicate that all persons in the nations - so the scriptures could simply be referring to the Hebrew-speaking or Greek-speaking or Aramaic-speaking individuals in those nations. It that is so, then the bible would not need translating - would it?

I am still stuck on the question: Why would God inspire men to write the "bible" but didnt used inspired persons to translate it? It's a bit odd - unless (which I think is the most plausible explanation) God never intended it to be translated.

 

[savagewind]

And if there is the need to revise or update it, ie if newer information comes to light on ancient languages, you can be 100% certain that the NWT will be one of the first to revise their bible.

This has never happened that I am aware of. Also it would not be fiscally reponsible to print new Bibles if the old one needed updating. How many Bibles would need swapping? Many millions.

 

[savagewind]

Why would God inspire men to write the "bible" but didnt used inspired persons to translate it? It's a bit odd - unless (which I think is the most plausible explanation) God never intended it to be translated.

I can't believe this. What would be the purpose for writing it down?

Only an exteme few people wrote it in the first place. That is your answer. True inspiration is rare and also there are those who will alter it on purpose. So what you have is a few inspired humans who are up against a world of unrighteousness.

 

[JayJayDee]

The NWT was revised in 1961 and again in 1970. As Pegg has mentioned, when there is something in the language that indicates an error or a refinement is needed in translation, it will be revised.

To my knowledge, no revision has been deemed necessary since 1970.

The NWT has copped a lot of flack because it is translated without bias towards the trinity....something for which the KJV and other translations are notorious.

Jason Be Duhn wrote a book on the subject of bias in translation. He was widely criticized but I believe his credentials speak for themselves. He was criticized for his supposed lack of knowledge in Biblical Greek, but he would have researched his subject thoroughly, intending not to glorify the NWT but simply to make comments about its lack of bias in translation, whilst contrasting it with more mainstream translations. His main criticism of the NWT was its use of the divine name in the Greek scriptures. JW's have no problem with the use of the divine name in all of the Scriptures. It is not as if he changed his name half way through his communication to the human race and substituted a title...man did that. (Exodus 3:15 (ASV); Psalm 83:18 (KJV))

Jason David BeDuhn, Ph.D. is an historian of religion and culture, currently Professor of Religious Studies at Northern Arizona University. Beduhn holds a B.A. in Religious studies from the University of Illinois, Urbana, an M.T.S. in New Testament and Christian Origins from Harvard Divinity School, and a Ph.D. in the Comparative Study of Religions from Indiana University, Bloomington.

He won the Best First Book Award from the American Academy of Religion in 2001 for his book The Manichaean Body in Discipline and Ritual (ISBN 0-8018-6270-1), notable for its analysis of religions as goal-oriented systems of practice rationalized within particular models of reality [1]. His second book,Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament, has generated considerable controversy for highlighting cases of theological bias in the translation process, by which, he argues, contemporary Christian views are anachronistically introduced into the Bible versions upon which most modern English-speaking Christians rely.
He was named a Guggenheim Fellow in 2004 List of Guggenheim Fellowships awarded in 2004.

From Wiki....

Jason BeDuhn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


More info on translation from our website.....
Study Number 5

Study Number 6

 

[savagewind]

The NWT was revised in 1961 and again in 1970

What were the changes please? Also, do you know when they stopped producing the green Bible?

 

[JayJayDee]

I stand corrected.....it appears as if a revision was undertaken in 1981 and with the printing of the Reference Bible in 1984.....

It was published with this forward....

"IT IS a very responsible thing to translate the Holy Scriptures from their original languages of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into modern speech. Translating the Holy Scriptures means rendering into another language the thoughts and sayings of Jehovah God, the heavenly Author of this sacred library of sixty-six books that holy men of long ago were inspired to write down for our benefit today.
That is a very sobering thought. The translators of this work, who fear and love the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures, feel toward Him a special responsibility to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible. They also feel a responsibility toward the searching readers who depend upon a translation of the inspired Word of the Most High God for their everlasting salvation.
It was with such a sense of solemn responsibility that over the course of many years this committee of dedicated men have produced the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. The entire work was originally released in six volumes, from 1950 to 1960. From the start it was the desire of the translators to have all these volumes brought together into one book, inasmuch as the Holy Scriptures are in actuality one book by the One Author. While the original volumes contained marginal references and footnotes, the revised one-volume edition, released in 1961, contained neither footnotes nor marginal references. A second revision was released in 1970 and a third revision with footnotes followed in 1971. In 1969 the committee released The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, which presented under the Greek text revised by Westcott and Hort (1948 Reprint) a literal word-for-word translation into English. During the past 34 years the New World Translation has been translated in part or in its entirety into ten other languages, with a total printing and distribution surpassing 39 million.
This new edition is not just a refinement of the translated text beyond its already previous revisions, but it offers a complete updating and revision of the footnote apparatus and marginal (cross) references that were initially presented in English, from 1950 to 1960.
For information as to the features of this revised edition and the service it can render to the users, we refer you to the Introduction. This 1984 revision has been released by us to the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania for printing, translation into other leading languages and distribution. We thus make it available with a deep sense of gratitude to the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures, who has so privileged us and in whose spirit we have trusted in producing this revision. We pray for his blessing upon those who use this translation for spiritual advancement.
January 1, 1984, New York, N.Y."

 

[Pegg]

I am still stuck on the question: Why would God inspire men to write the "bible" but didnt used inspired persons to translate it? It's a bit odd - unless (which I think is the most plausible explanation) God never intended it to be translated.

Did the publishers of Darwins book need to understand evolution the way he did?

Did they need to be inspired by the same things as Darwin in order to publish his works?

Did the person who published Einstein's thesis need to have the same knowledge and understanding of the universe in order to considered a worthy publisher of such a work?

 

[Big_TJ]

I can't believe this. What would be the purpose for writing it down?

Only an exteme few people wrote it in the first place. That is your answer. True inspiration is rare and also there are those who will alter it on purpose. So what you have is a few inspired humans who are up against a world of unrighteousness.

Great question. I don't know what the purpose would be, but I could speculate that it was written down so that others, to whom it pertains, would have access/knowledge of it. I, however, would want to think that God would have done a better job of ensuring accuracy in translations if he had intended that the translations should have been done in the first place.

 

[Big_TJ]

The NWT was revised in 1961 and again in 1970. As Pegg has mentioned, when there is something in the language that indicates an error or a refinement is needed in translation, it will be revised.

To my knowledge, no revision has been deemed necessary since 1970.

I am almost certain that there was a revision in/about 1984. I will need to double-check this.

The NWT has copped a lot of flack because it is translated without bias towards the trinity....something for which the KJV and other translations are notorious.

Jason Be Duhn wrote a book on the subject of bias in translation. He was widely criticized but I believe his credentials speak for themselves. He was criticized for his supposed lack of knowledge in Biblical Greek, but he would have researched his subject thoroughly, intending not to glorify the NWT but simply to make comments about its lack of bias in translation, whilst contrasting it with more mainstream translations. His main criticism of the NWT was its use of the divine name in the Greek scriptures. JW's have no problem with the use of the divine name in all of the Scriptures. It is not as if he changed his name half way through his communication to the human race and substituted a title...man did that. (Exodus 3:15 (ASV); Psalm 83:18 (KJV))

It is either you did not read Jason's book or you grossly misunderstood his criticism. Jason's criticism was not simply that the NWT used Jehovah in the New Testament, his criticism is that there were little or no scriptural basis for using it. This is akin to adding to the scriptures - something that the scripture warn not to do.

 

[Big_TJ]

Did the publishers of Darwins book need to understand evolution the way he did?

Did they need to be inspired by the same things as Darwin in order to publish his works?

Did the person who published Einstein's thesis need to have the same knowledge and understanding of the universe in order to considered a worthy publisher of such a work?

Pegg, be nice:slap:. Are you really comparing Darwin's book to the bible?

Furthermore, do you think Darwin or Einstein would have permitted their writings to be mistranslated if they could have prevented it? If they could, do you not believe they would ensure that any translation of their works fully reflects their views?

Come on, Pegg - you are better than that. It's like the Adventist saying Ellen White endorse a book that clearly misrepresents her writings; simply ridiculous.

 

[Big_TJ]

The translators of this work, who fear and love the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures, feel toward Him a special responsibility to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible.

And this is my point: Why translate it "as accurately as possible?" I mean, with the millions of JWs worldwide relying on this important book, why wouldn't Jehovah personally guide/inspire the translators to ensure that they are 100% accurate instead of "as accurate as possible?"

 

[Pegg]

Pegg, be nice:slap:. Are you really comparing Darwin's book to the bible?

Furthermore, do you think Darwin or Einstein would have permitted their writings to be mistranslated if they could have prevented it? If they could, do you not believe they would ensure that any translation of their works fully reflects their views?

Come on, Pegg - you are better than that. It's like the Adventist saying Ellen White endorse a book that clearly misrepresents her writings; simply ridiculous.

what i'm comparing is that the publisher of any book does not need to be directly commissioned by the author. Nor do they need to fully comprehend all of the authors teachings. Translators are just translating an existing document... and thats why bible translators do not need to be inspired to do so.