Are the Rabbinic Jews Unknowingly Rejecting God According to the Texts?

[dybmh]

The Sanhedrin paid Judas, which is the same word in Greek for Judah, 30 pieces of silver for the price of the Messiah; Judas then hangs himself in the Potters Field, and Judah received the same in terms of the 2nd Temple Destruction, Diaspora, Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28), and next the Quantum Fire because they rejected the Curse (Deuteronomy 29:19-27)... Then the Messianic Age (Deuteronomy 30:1-10).

This metaphorically is that they had to pay the 30 pieces of silver, as it was ordained.

In the Apocalypse of Abraham the disciple kisses the Messiah as the way to shortened the days of ungodliness, which the Tanakh shows the same is prophetically taking place.

30 pieces is the price of a slave or the prostitute in Hosea 3:1-2, where the price of a Homer of Barley and 15 pieces is paid; which metaphorically becomes 'jesus' the fake idol or beast that is sold to the nations as a way to get cheap salvation, whilst missing the wisdoms of Yeshua interlinking within the Tanakh.

The idea Judah paid for their own Messiah's death, is contextual to Ahaz paying the Assyrians in Isaiah 7 to destroy the Northern Kingdom (Israel).

The whole thing is an amazing work of textual engineering, with so many layers to it.

In my opinion.

Thank you,

I appreciate the learning opportunity. Would it be OK to share my process with you using this as an example?

The original quote is below:

Yeshua removed Judah and Israel for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11)

Before I replied: I went to Zecharia 11 and read 2 different translations of the text of Zecharia 11 looking for Yeshua, Salvation, anyting having to do with anointing... nothing found. The I went back to Zecharia 10. Read it. Continued to Zecharia 11; read it again.

There is no Yeshua in the verses in Zecharia 11.

So thats the context. Understand, in order for the statement "Yeshua removed Judah and Israel for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11)" to be true; Yeshua must be present somewhere in Zecharia 11. Otherwise it is false.

Understand, I went looking in Zecharia 11, as recommended by my friend Zander, fr Yeshua and I couldn't see it.

So I asked for clarification, and this is what you provided:

The Sanhedrin paid Judas, which is the same word in Greek for Judah, 30 pieces of silver for the price of the Messiah...

The next thing I would do, is go through your reply and try to map it out into a logical chain. What is the premise; what are the supporting details; what is the conclusion; what are the assumptions... etc....

Example: Assuming A=1, and B=1. If C=1; then A=C. That's a logical chain.

If I follow this procedure in this matter of Yeshua in Zecharia 11:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Claim: "Yeshua removed Judah and Israel for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11)"

Assumptions:

• Yeshua is a significant word/concept in the Tanach.
• Word choice in each verse of the Tanach is significant. eg: light is not the same as brightness.
• Hebrew is the source language of the Tanach;
• all other languages are deemed translations and ancillary to the Hebrew

Logical Chain ( with abbreviations ):

Matthew 26:15 >>> Matthew 27:5 = Destruction of 2nd Temple and Diaspora and CurseOfMoses and QuantumFire and Messianic Age { metaphor } 30 Sheckels/Zech 11:12.

Have I mapped this out correctly?

 

[dybmh]

@wizanda,

I just read Matthew 26:1-50....

FWIW.

 

[dybmh]

Now...

I'm looking for a link between any of the following... do you see?

In order to make a connection between Matthew 26 and Zecharia 11, there needs to be a link between Matthew 26 and [ Deut 28 or The Diaspora or QuantumFire or AgeOfMessiah ].

Even a loose, metaphorical connection needs to have some link to one of those four items or your logical chain falls apart.

So... I'm looking at Matthew, and I'm looking at Deut.... I'm looking for a link. Any link, any thing, and I can;t see it.

So here's the question:

Look at the data you provided. Is this link described in any way for a person who does not beleive in Jesus? Am I blind? Or is the data missing?

 

[wizanda]

Have I mapped this out correctly?

Like we need to start precept upon precept: on a word search in Esword of Salvation H3444 Yeshua is there in prior promises to be the symbolic name of the Branch of David.

Yehoshua son of nun, was called it by Moses because Hosea would lead the people into the promised land.

Yehoshua son of Yehozadek lead the people back from the Babylonian Exile.

Yehoshua son of Joseph was murdered for his technicoloured dreamcoat.

Yehoshua then comes back, having now become an archangel, and explains it to his brothers or they go without for kicking him into the Pit.

Yeshua being anywhere as a name in Hebrew wouldn't happen, it is a feminine action, not a name... Yehoshua is the masculine name, and the Aramaic shortening is Yeshua.

Instead though the Song of Moses is in Exodus 15:2 is that the Lord (H3050), will become (H1961) our Salvation (H3444).

Take into account H1961 is the Memorial stated to Moses for our people, 'what the Lord states will become, will become (Exodus 3:14).'

David continues in Psalms 118: that the 'Lord will become our Salvation', and 'the Chief Corner Stone' that Jews reject.

Then Isaiah 12:2 continues the same Song of Moses, where each time the Lord (H3050) becomes (H1961) Yeshua (H3444).

In Psalms 89:19-21 David is selected as the Messiah, and then Isaiah 52:13-14 paraphrased it - 'marred' should be anointed.
[GALLERY=media, 8710][/GALLERY]
In Isaiah 52:10 the Spirit of Salvation is put on the vessel of David (Isaiah 52:11), and he is then the person in Isaiah 53.

Therefore David was Yehoshua/Yeshua, and we can show numerous prophetic utterances.

Missed from the case on Zechariah 11:8, that the phrase matches Isaiah 53:3, that he was 'abhorred' by the leaders.

In Daniel 9:26-27 tells us the Messiah will be taken/killed before the 2nd Temple Destruction, where the daily sacrifice was then removed.

Do you get start at the beginning of routing the solution, things always have an origin.

In my opinion.

 

[Nakosis]

Which means this argument is ridiculous, most of the religious tribes arguing their book is better than the rest, don't read that they're all saying their destruction happens because of a big war over misunderstandings.

It is like two children Ishmael and Isaac fighting over a Coat of Many Colours; when the Source could give everyone a Coat, if they didn't try to kill each other over who is right.

In my opinion.

Then aren't things proceeding exactly as setup by God to proceed?
This destruction seems necessary to whatever is planned by God.

God could obviously straighten it all out if God wanted to. I'd think the misunderstanding has been done on purpose.

 

[wizanda]

Am I blind?

Don't try to make maths, rather learn to see how the sum adds up - enjoy playing patience.

Deut 28 or The Diaspora or QuantumFire or AgeOfMessiah

The Quantum Fire happens at the Second Coming (Luke 17:20-37), where the 'Vultures Gather' is a reference to the Lake of Fire in Isaiah 34:9 - which uses the word 'Brimstone' (H1614), found in Deuteronomy 29:23, which is also in Ezekiel 38:22 where God steps in using 'Brimstone' to stop the Battle of Armageddon against Jerusalem.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

God could obviously straighten it all out if God wanted to. I'd think the misunderstanding has been done on purpose.

The plan according to the religious texts is to establish a Bed of Adultery down hear near Hell; catch all the demons out in it in different ways, and then burn the lot who have fallen for it, and keep those who didn't.

It is a great plan currently as many people in the world have no clue about the religious texts, and so we get a peaceful world after without all the fake ungodly people.

Only thing is, personally do not think this is fair just to delete everyone for ignorance; without educating them to why...

Then aren't things proceeding exactly as setup by God to proceed?

God sends the Messiah to rectify the situation, and it is possible to get people to become righteous through adversity.

What would you choose: education or deletion without reason?

In my opinion.

 

[Nakosis]

What would you choose: education or deletion without reason?

In my opinion.

Honestly, I'm pretty dense when it comes to education. So I see education as not necessarily effective. Has to be pretty basic and repeatedly observable for me.

Generally I hope/assume my nature will get me through. Not so much my knowledge. I don't have the answer to everything or even much. If knowledge of what is true is required I suspect I am already a lost cause.

Deletion doesn't seem so bad to me, non-existence.

Of course I wouldn't want someone I cared about deleted. I'd like people to continue to exist and be happy. For me though, no feeling, no knowledge, no nothing. Just like I had never been. I'm ok with that personally.

 

[wizanda]

For me though, no feeling, no knowledge, no nothing. Just like I had never been. I'm ok with that personally.

Thank you, interesting point, that if someone isn't going to make it anyway, why tell them, might as well leave them to enjoy what life they have in their ignorance.

In my opinion.

 

[dybmh]

Don't try to make maths, rather learn to see how the sum adds up - enjoy playing patience.

Are you asking for blind faith?

if so, why disclose any of the proofs/maths?

 

[dybmh]

Yehoshua son of Joseph was murdered for his technicoloured dreamcoat.

Bro, I'm in the middle of responding to your post, but, you should scratch this off the list.

Joseph son of Jacob...

not Yehoshua at all...

It's Bnai Yaakov...

Not Bnai Yehoshua...

 

[dybmh]

Like we need to start precept upon precept: on a word search in Esword of Salvation H3444 Yeshua is there in prior promises to be the symbolic name of the Branch of David.

Yehoshua son of nun, was called it by Moses because Hosea would lead the people into the promised land.

Yehoshua son of Yehozadek lead the people back from the Babylonian Exile.

Yehoshua son of Joseph was murdered for his technicoloured dreamcoat.

Yehoshua then comes back, having now become an archangel, and explains it to his brothers or they go without for kicking him into the Pit.

Yeshua being anywhere as a name in Hebrew wouldn't happen, it is a feminine action, not a name... Yehoshua is the masculine name, and the Aramaic shortening is Yeshua.

Instead though the Song of Moses is in Exodus 15:2 is that the Lord (H3050), will become (H1961) our Salvation (H3444).

Take into account H1961 is the Memorial stated to Moses for our people, 'what the Lord states will become, will become (Exodus 3:14).'

David continues in Psalms 118: that the 'Lord will become our Salvation', and 'the Chief Corner Stone' that Jews reject.

Then Isaiah 12:2 continues the same Song of Moses, where each time the Lord (H3050) becomes (H1961) Yeshua (H3444).

In Psalms 89:19-21 David is selected as the Messiah, and then Isaiah 52:13-14 paraphrased it - 'marred' should be anointed.
[GALLERY=media, 8710][/GALLERY]
In Isaiah 52:10 the Spirit of Salvation is put on the vessel of David (Isaiah 52:11), and he is then the person in Isaiah 53.

Therefore David was Yehoshua/Yeshua, and we can show numerous prophetic utterances.

Missed from the case on Zechariah 11:8, that the phrase matches Isaiah 53:3, that he was 'abhorred' by the leaders.

In Daniel 9:26-27 tells us the Messiah will be taken/killed before the 2nd Temple Destruction, where the daily sacrifice was then removed.

Do you get start at the beginning of routing the solution, things always have an origin.

In my opinion.

Wizanda,

Note: All of this is then something that was **ASSUMED** or **ABSENT** from the original answer that was given, ( post #78 )

Given what is listed above, the claim you made previously needs to be updated. New items are bold and blue:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Claim: "Yeshua removed Judah and Israel for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11)"

Assumptions:

• Yeshua is a significant word/concept in the Tanach.
• Word choice in each verse of the Tanach is significant. eg: light is not the same as brightness.
• Hebrew is the source language of the Tanach;
• all other languages are deemed translations and ancillary to the Hebrew
• Branch of David = Yeshua
• Yehoshua = Yeshua
• Yehoshua is feminine for Yeshua
• Psalm 89 has David as Messiah
• "The Spirit of Salvation" is an accurate translation of the text in Isaiah 52
• "The vessel of David" is an accurate translation of the text in Isaiah 52
• David is Yeshua
• "Abhored" is an accurate translation of the text in Isaiah 53
• Daniel chapter 9 tells us the Messiah will be taken/killed before the 2nd Temple Destruction

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wiz, you went from 5 assumptions, to 13 assumptions in order to develop a logical link between Yeshua and Zecharia 11. More than double.

Really at this point it looks like you are trying to establish credibility and you have departed from Zecharia 11 altogether.

 

[wizanda]

Are you asking for blind faith?

Good question, Pauline Christianity taught the terminology blind faith to begin (Hebrews 11:1); due to lack of time spent solving the riddles of the Tanakh, and has instead misled millions assuming the right answer.

You asked are you blind, when we have just been talking about the context of Judaism's blindness by Moses, which is where I replied like Yoda in Starwars - "Better sums we must do."

Joseph son of Jacob...

not Yehoshua at all...

Matthew 1:21 says he shall be called Yehoshua, which means for 'he shall save his people'; bad translations have led to error in maths - his name never was jesus.

False Christ - Psudeochristos (G5580) = (H5580) Grub or Beast - סס (Isaiah 51:8).

In my understanding adding a yod to words in ancient Hebrew makes add Shall + be something.... י+סס Shall tear away or trample down (H947).

Isaiah 51:8 says we don't trust the Grub (H5580 - סס), we trust in Salvation (H3444 - Yeshua).

Yehoshua's father was Joseph.

The naming of Yehoshua's father Joseph is because of the symbolism, Yeshua receiving an inheritance from his father, and the attempted murdered by his brothers for him receiving favour.

So in Rabbinic Jewish ideas of Messiah Ben David, Messiah Ben Joseph, one has already been purposely named.

In my opinion.

 

[dybmh]

Matthew 1:21 says he shall be called Yehoshua, which means for 'he shall save his people'; bad translations have led to error in maths - his name never was jesus.

False Christ - Psudeochristos (G5580) = (H5580) Grub or Beast - סס (Isaiah 51:8).

In my understanding adding a yod to words in ancient Hebrew makes add Shall + be something.... י+סס Shall tear away or trample down (H947).

Isaiah 51:8 says we don't trust the Grub (H5580 - סס), we trust in Salvation (H3444 - Yeshua).

Yehoshua's father was Joseph.

The naming of Yehoshua's father Joseph is because of the symbolism, Yeshua receiving an inheritance from his father, and the attempted murdered by his brothers for him receiving favour.

So in Rabbinic Jewish ideas of Messiah Ben David, Messiah Ben Joseph, one has already been purposely named.

In my opinion.

OK.

But here's where a choice needs to be, IMHO, deliberately made.

If this specific example ( Joseph ben Yehoshua of the NT ) is maintained as supporting evidence it opens up more assumptions and may actually diminish the credibility of the argument. It's a measure of value vs. liability. Does this specific point help or hinder the argument you are trying to make?

My take on it? It hurts your case. It introduces more and more questions, and the return is limited for the amount of doubt that this detail brings along with it.

Does that make sense?

Further, this is not a very convincing argument anyway if directed at a Torah Observant Jew. Why? The maths/proof requires the New Testament. That means the argument will always be weak even if the textual analysis is accurate. I repeat. The textual analysis must be 100% flawless in order to make a weak unconvincing point.

 

[wizanda]

Yeshua is a significant word/concept in the Tanach.

This can only be established by understanding how important the H3444 references are, if we study a bit, like read this post on Proving Yeshua As Messiah, as we can show by historical contexts, how the ideas evolved...

If still need help understanding feel free to ask, not to automatically assume false answers - it makes bad maths.

Branch of David = Yeshua

Zechariah 6:11-12 Yehoshua son of Yehozadek is called the Branch symbolically; Zechariah 3:8 Yehoshua a Branch of David to come or a Root of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1).

Yehoshua = Yeshua

Exodus 23:20-23 the Lord shall put his title Yah (Lord H3050) on his messenger, who then has the power to forgive sin.

God allows his sacred Messiah Yehoshua to become an intercessor for sin, so mankind realize God ultimately can do what it wants.

Therefore Salvation comes from God, Salvation is put into David, with the name Yehoshua; people make David into a ransom for sin, yet salvation (Yeshua) can only come from God.

Yehoshua is feminine for Yeshua

That isn't the case... Two different words, one is a name, the other an action.

Psalm 89 has David as Messiah

Psalms 89:19-21 Then you spoke in vision to your saints, and said, “I have given strength to the warrior. I have exalted a young man from the people. (20) I have found David, my servant. I have anointed him with my holy oil, (21) with whom my hand shall be established. My arm will also strengthen him.

Isaiah 52:13-14 Behold, my servant will deal wisely. He will be exalted and lifted up, and will be very high. Just as many were astonished by him, for I anointed him more than others appearance, and his form more than a son of man.

"The Spirit of Salvation" is an accurate translation of the text in Isaiah 52

This is based on contextual applications, in Isaiah 42:1 the Spirit of the Lord is placed on his Messiah, and Isaiah 59:21 the Lord speaks through his Messiah.

Yeshuat Eloheinu is the Salvation from our (God) Divine Being...

Yeshua is Salvation, and is a concept; the word Elohim is something with a form, that is created from the ultimate Source of reality (El), something that is manifest from it; which is where saying the spirit of salvation is directly what it is, rather than mistranslating words from bad maths we can create from translation ideas.

"The vessel of David" is an accurate translation of the text in Isaiah 52

Psalms 89 appoints David as the Lord's Right Arm, like in Isaiah 52:10 + Isaiah 53:1 contextually making a header points between 'Arm of the Lord'.

Therefore Isaiah 52:10-15 is about Yehoshua i.e. David coming and being put through Isaiah 53 as mankind doesn't get prophecy.

The word 'Vessel' is used in Isaiah 52:11 the Spirit is put into it Isaiah 52:10, it is anointed Isaiah 52:14, and slaughtered by Judah in Isaiah 53.

David is Yeshua

Many of the Psalms, with things like 'the Lions of Bashan have come against me', etc is David writing first person about himself.

"Abhored" is an accurate translation of the text in Isaiah 53

The word isn't the same in both passages, it is the conceptual ideas, each of the texts suggest the Lord comes up against his own Leaders, as they become brutish, and refuse correction...

Thus they kill their own Messiah, showing we shouldn't trust self appointed false governments, as scum rises to the top (ELites); yet allow God to elect true leaders (ELohim).

The maths/proof requires the New Testament. That means the argument will always be weak even if the textual analysis is accurate.

With enough understanding we can establish basis for Yehoshua as Messiah merely from the Tanakh; yet the New Testament is an IQ test, like the Synoptic Gospels, and then the false Gospel of John, is a series of patterns with a random pattern at the end.

God is testing us (Proverbs 25:2) to see who is worthy to be kings or Levites in the Age to Come.

Paul deliberately contradicts the Tanakh; Simon being called the stone (peter) is blatant prophecy (Zechariah 3:9).

To fulfil prophecy the New Testament needs to be shown to the world as being full of contradictions by the Jews, with them having their Messiah King David - Yehoshua - Zion (Zechariah 12:7-10); yet still accepting historical contexts accurately, to create world peace between Islam and Christianity, as then the texts get fixed, the Christians have to repent, and everyone learns from the experience.

In my opinion.

 

[dybmh]

This can only be established by understanding how important the H3444 references are, if we study a bit, like read this post on Proving Yeshua As Messiah, as we can show by historical contexts, how the ideas evolved...

If still need help understanding feel free to ask, not to automatically assume false answers - it makes bad maths.

I read the linked thread; BTW. I am not automatically assuming false answers. I promise. I am listening. I am reading your posts with an open mind.

I think the problem is that the thread you linked to is, again, not at all convincing. The maths/proofs are not mapped out clearly.

But if possible, may I zoom out and try to help you see the big picture. Please. If possible, would you please take few deep breaths, ground yourself, please?

If you trace the trajectory of our converstation in this specific example.

You made a bold claim Yeshua and Zecharia which was not clearly proven. I asked for scriptural evidence to support it. It took several tries, but eventually here we are.

In order to prove that Yeshua is connected to Zecharia 11, it is absolutely required to accept this:

Claim: "H3444 references are important."

Please, repectfully, would you please take a look at the first assumption that I listed as required in order to prove the claim about Yeshua and Zecharia?

This ^^ is job #1. You still haven't proven this point. Its not mapped out clearly and it seems like all your arguments depend on it.


This is what I propose:

Would it be OK, if tomorrow ( or sometime soon ) in this thread ( or else where ) we table the discussion about Yeshua in Zecharia 11 and focus on this 1 primary **nessessary** prerequisite:

Is Yeshua significant in the Tanach?

If that can't be proven, then the rest is just chaff in the wind.

 

[wizanda]

Is Yeshua significant in the Tanach?

Yeshua is a concept of salvation within the Tanakh, so of course it is significant, the personification of it is often because of people not understanding the contexts.

Genesis 49:10 we wait for the Messiah your salvation (H3444) (Genesis 49:18)

Exodus 14:13 the salvation of God separated the Red Sea; the Song of Moses is created in Exodus 15:2 the Lord will become our salvation.

David was promised if the Children of Ammon become too strong the Lord will become our Salvation (2 Samuel 10:11); we then see this when Jehoshaphat fought Ammon (2 Chronicles 20:17).

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) + Isaiah 33:2-6, Isaiah 49:6, Isaiah 51:6-8.

H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon).

In my opinion.

 

[dybmh]

Yeshua is a concept of salvation within the Tanakh, so of course it is significant, the personification of it is often because of people not understanding the contexts.

Genesis 49:10 we wait for the Messiah your salvation (H3444) (Genesis 49:18)

Exodus 14:13 the salvation of God separated the Red Sea; the Song of Moses is created in Exodus 15:2 the Lord will become our salvation.

David was promised if the Children of Ammon become too strong the Lord will become our Salvation (2 Samuel 10:11); we then see this when Jehoshaphat fought Ammon (2 Chronicles 20:17).

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) + Isaiah 33:2-6, Isaiah 49:6, Isaiah 51:6-8.

H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon).

In my opinion.

I grant you that the concept of salvation is significant because it exists within the Tanach. Agreed. Well done.

I do not grant that there is scriptural evidence that Yeshua is anything other than a concept. This means that in order to convince me to go beyond the simple literal meaning of the word Yeshua, I will need proof.

Here's a list of the verses you provided to be supporting usage of the word Yeshua as a proper name outside it's literal meaning in the Tanach. I removed the duplicates.

Genesis 49:10
Genesis 49:18
Exodus 14:13
Exodus 15:2
2 Samuel 10:11
2 Chronicles 20:17
Psalms 118:14-21
Isaiah 12:2
2 Sam 10:11
Isaiah 33:2-6
Isaiah 51:6-8
Isaiah 52:10

Before even looking at the significance of H3444 combined with other words ( H3444 + H1961 or H7200 ), lets just look at each verse breifly and confirm that the word Yeshua exists in each verse and that it would make sense if the word Yeshua was a proper name. OK?

Genesis 49:10: the word Yeshua is missing. The concept of a Messiah might be alluded to. But even if I grant that there is an allusion to the Messiah, this verse still needs a connection to the word yeshua H3444. This one is not evidence that Yeshua is a proper name.

Genesis 49:18: This is the first of several verses in the list where the word Yeshua is conjegated. And names are not conjegated in the Torah. Specifically in this verse, if the word H3444 as it's written here is a name, then, that name would be Yeshuasecha. That doesn't happen in Hebrew in the Tanach. There is not Abrahamecha ( conjugated version translated as "your Abraham" ). Another example, there is no Abrahami ( conjugated version of "my Abraham" ). Now. As you know Sarah was originally Sarai, but, that was a name change. Not the same name. It's easy to see: Sarah is not the same as Sarai. Yeshuasecha would not be the same name as Yeshua.

Exodus 14:13: Same thing. If Yeshua is a name, the word in this verse is Yushuas/Yushuat ( Sephardi/Askenanazi ). In order for this to be strong evidence, I need to see another exmaple of a name that is conjugated. I'm sorry. But it's the lack of Hebrew language knowledge that caused this flaw in reasoning.

Exodus 15:2: OK. Bingo. This is 1 verse that strongly supports your position. Good job. But it's just one verse, there needs to be more.

2 Samuel 10:11: The word h3444 is there, but reading the word as a proper name in this verse doesn't seem relevant at all outside of it's literal meaning.

2 Chronicles 20:17: Again the word H3444 is there, but it's conjugated again with the tav at the end. And just like the verse above from 2 Sam; yeshuat/yeshuas in this verse would not make sense if it was a proper name.

Psalms 118:14-21: OK, this get's a little obscure. I would call it mysterious, but I don't know, understanding those verses if H3444 is a proper name is kinda bizarre. But I'll grant you these verses are valid evidence of maybe something significant about the word yeshua outside of the literal translation.

Isaiah 12:2: Conjugated: If it's a proper name, it would be pronounced "Yeshuasi" or "Yeshuati" ( Sephardi or Ashekenazi )

Isaiah 33:6: Anouther conjugation. This one if it was a proper name, it would be pronounced "Yeshuos" or "Yeshuot". But even if it was Yeshua, the text doesn't really make sense if yeshua is a proper name. I don't see the relevance.

Isaiah 51:6-8: Here it's conjugated again, but at least I can see why these verses fit as supporting evidence in spite of the word "Yeshua" is missing from the verse.
Isaiah 52:10: Conjugated. A little weird to read this verse if Yeshua is a proper name though.

So really... most of these are weak evidence because of the conjugation problem. Exodus 15:2 is 1 good example. The rest, don't literally say "yeshua". Sorry.

Do you have others?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No. The deity of Jesus is seen in all four 1st century Gospels and various epistles - also 1st century.

And there were plenty of Jewish conversion to Christ even in Jesus' day and just following the resurrection. To claim all Jews did not believe in the deity of Jesus requires a complete knowledge of everyone's Jewish mind back then, which isn't possible. It's entirely possible a great many Messianic Jews did believe in the deity of Jesus.

This is why I said up front that my views were not that of Christians.

But I stand by what I said. I think that Christians are emotionally invested in seeing their POV in their scriptures. So invested that they are completely unconscious of their own bias. Enough said. We'll simply have to agree to disagree here, my friend.

 

[wizanda]

would make sense if the word Yeshua was a proper name. OK?

We should not cause the concept of salvation to be turned into a man, like Christians do, as it is a form of idolatry (Psalms 118).

I'd personally only use the name Yehoshua, but because Judaism has messed up the naming; I'm currently using Yeshua as it is commonly recognized, whereas j+s+s is the 'shall + beast'...

Take into account in Revelation the world follows the beast ('jesus') rejecting the true Messiah; same happens in the Sefer of Zerubbabel - that the true Messiah Yehoshua is in Rome along side the false Stone statue Armilus...

Where Simon the stone (peter) created 'jesus' the idol, by not identifying salvation (H3444) in the Tanakh, yet only looking for the man instead (Matthew 16:23).

Genesis 49:10: the word Yeshua is missing. The concept of a Messiah might be alluded to.

Genesis 49:10 starts the code of a Messiah shall come, in coding these are called global variables: so it sets a variable, then fills it after....

We wait for the Messiah (Genesis 49:10), we wait for salvation (Genesis 49:18).

Yeshuasecha would not be the same name as Yeshua.

It is not a name, it is a concept of the Lords Salvation, the name is Yehoshua.

Instead of get confused by a spelling, we should look up a spelling for additional paraphrasing: lî-šū-‘ā-ṯə-ḵā

But it's the lack of Hebrew language knowledge that caused this flaw in reasoning.

Yes many of have been taught Latin grammar, and no longer understand how Ancient Hebrew was a pictographic system, similar to hieroglyphics.

I find part of the problems are people impose noun, and verb grammar from Latin, that didn't exists back then.

So like looking for a name in a text full of symbolism isn't theoretically viable, all place names have meaning, all peoples names are inherent symbolism, every letter is a symbol, the whole text has so many layers.

Do you have others?

I'm not going to cry, yet after reading what you just did to the Tanakh, I feel like it; it took me 15 years to understand some of this for God, and you threw it away within 5 mins, as you didn't do the basics:

Yeshua is not a name, it means salvation, no where in the text is it ever used as a name as it changes as a word, as you rightly point out.

The Salvation from God is a promise from God, it is not a person, a thing, it is Source energy, like Teshuvah, Yeshua, Yesha, Shub, etc is all the spirit of this same energy; it exists in a form from the Oneness of God (H3444)...

This presence has been labelled Yeshua in Hebrew, this did mighty things in the Tanakh; the reason the Jews believe in God is because of this Salvation H3444:

• it separated the Red Sea (Exodus 14),
  
• it fought the Children of Ammon (2 Chronicles 20),
• it was the force that destroyed other nations,
• it defeated the Lethiathan (Psalms 74:12-14),
  
• then because no man could bring salvation (Isaiah 59:16) through random sacrifice of sentient animals (Isaiah 1, etc),
• God became our salvation by becoming David's flesh, and suffering for us as High Priest Yehoshua, to end sacrifice once and for all...
• Whilst maintaining by praying in the name of the Lord Saves (Yehoshua), our prayers for repentance are granted (Yeshua).
• Which is why in Isaiah 12:3, we will pour water out of the well of Salvation, and Zechariah 13:1 says David opens a well of cleansing sin.

In my opinion.