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Featured Are the Rabbinic Jews Unknowingly Rejecting God According to the Texts?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by wizanda, Oct 27, 2019.

  1. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Based on this ^^ ( specifically " Everything is significant " ):

    Respectful question: Are you ready to concede that 82% accuracy is completely unrealistic based on the amount of information that you are lacking? Even 50% accuracy is unrealistic. The level certainty of your claims ( without scriptural data ) is immeasurably low. It would be in the order of .0000001 %. As "everything" becomes significant,"nothing" becomes significant. It's counter intuitive, but it's true. Think about it.

    ( Note: in this example where everything is significant... Yeshua becomes insignificant also. The word only occurs less than 25 times in the entire Tanach. )

    A confidence level expressed as a percent is really nothing more than an quantitative measure of concentration. I think you need to take into account all of the information that you are missing. Once that is added to the quantitative 82% accuracy, can you imagine in your mind how the accuracy diminishes proportionally as more unknowns are added to the equation?

    It is simple math, isn't it? It's division by zero inverted? And you don't know what you don't know.
     
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  2. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Each individual case doesn't automatically add the same fault from other equations faults to each individual sum.
    Of course, and certain case information with limited case data the over percentage goes down for that case, not every case.
    'Reductio ad Absurdum', in our Rules of Reasoning clearly making bad sums.

    Cannabis in Bible Vs Word Etymology = Zan's Sum: History from study of religions globally, Zoroastrian (+5.5%), Hindu on Soma (+4.4%), Buddha on Bhang (+3.3%), Sula Bennet's work on Anthropological line (+7.7%), study of Shamanic medicine in many cultures (+10.2%), the word matching in sound (+10.2%), the same spellings to etymological roots (+12.7%), etc...

    These are all cases that show a high rate of probability in each case, that then only add a small percentage to the overall case.

    As you rightly point out there are reductive sums that need to happen, like we're not sure about anything really, and other questions of questioning everything; which then minus the sum to a clear 82% on that specific topic overall for example.

    So on the case of Proving Yeshua as the Messiah we have to deal with the specific data.

    To overlook those 25 statements on the salvation of God (H3444) taking place in the Bible, which is a book about the salvation of God is sort of missing the end result of the book.

    So for example case file:

    Genesis 49:10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs. To him will the obedience of the peoples be.

    Who is this we wait for as Messiah?

    Genesis 49:18 I have waited for your salvation (H3444), Yahweh.

    Then the next usage of Yeshua is in the Separating of the Red Sea (Exodus 14:13), and the Song of Moses (Exodus 15:2).


    Next why does the Curse of Moses get placed, because they've rejected who?

    Deuteronomy 32:15 But Jeshurun grew fat, and kicked. You have grown fat. You have grown thick. You have become sleek. Then he abandoned God who made him, and rejected the Rock of his salvation (H3444).


    Like these accumulate to such a sum that there is an overall percentage of the sum having 95% in places, even with massive deductions from error, it shows God is very real, and the Bible is a master piece; yet to understand it, we need the wisdom of a Genius, as God literally will have to guide people to the highest understandings within it, as the maths nears perfection within the matrix.

    That or people could download Esword, word search Strongs reference number 'H3444' (Yeshua - Salvation) in a KJV+ Bible to study the results of the case files presented.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #62 wizanda, Nov 10, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  3. THE Art Vandelay

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    They've been openly rejecting God for over 2,000 years now, particularly so since they instigated the unjust murder of his son, the promised Messiah they had been waiting for for countless centuries.
     
  4. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The question is do they realize this? I don't think they do.

    Like they think they get the texts because of grammar, and history; yet what if every Jew has been educated by some of the Rabbinic thinking to have 'Reductio ad Absurdum'?
    The prophecy stated it was going to happen (Zechariah 11), no one murders in a case that is ordained; its just whilst they deny David as their Messiah (Psalms 89:19-21 = Isaiah 52:13-14 - marred should be anointed) who was murdered by the Leaders, they then take on the guilt.

    If they accepted the rightful heir then it wouldn't be murder, as prophecy would indicate God wanted to show us it can kill any of us or put us under a Curse for not listening - to help us all to understand never to underestimate its word.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  5. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Would you please detail the prophecy of the Jewish Messiah? Perhaps you are mis-informed. Conversely maybe you can educate me further in this area?
     
  6. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    There is an obvious pattern. It is your choice to continue to repeat the same methods. Your success or failure in making a convincing argument is up to you. if it is important to be convincing, then it makes sense to make changes to your approach. The current method you are using is not rendering convincing or accurate results.

    I repeat, Yeshua is not significant in the text. It's actually on listed 19 times. That's it. 19 times. On the other hand Mishpat ( Fairness ) occurs 426 times. This is simple math. I don't know what rules of reasoning you are using, but Mishpatim get their own week out of the year.

    No matter how you slice and dice it, Wiz. Yeshua is just a word in Judaism. Would you like to continue to debate which is more significant, the concept of Mishpat or the concept of Yeshua? I think we both know which side of the argument will have more scriptural evidence. Mishpat will have over 400 more verses of evidence.

    OK. Here's an obvious one. The text focuses on one thing far more than anything else. The exodus. The word used for Egypt, Mitzrayim, it occurs 708 times. Compare that to 19 occurrences of Yeshua. Will you at least agree to consider my argument and not reject it immediately? Respectful question: Aren't 19 verses much less significant than 426 and 708? A few posts ago, you said everything is significant. Doesn't that include the frequency of usage?
    There's nothing wrong with any of this. It's a good solid theory. I think there is academic support for it, and that's what you are presenting: Academic support. It's not scriptural, tho.

    Specifically for this thread, why do you expect a Rabbinic Jew Torah Observant Jew to be interested? All of the evidence provided above is from other nations.
    You're losing me, bro.... The book is clearly not at all about Salvation. 19 ocurrances versus 700.... Come on. The book is about the exodus. Your life is about salvation, and that is clouding your judgement. What you seem to know is the english KJV and the strong's index. Puffing up your knowledge into more than that is a bait and switch. Really.

    Have a good night.
     
  7. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    My life was preprogrammed by God, I'd liked to have been a professional musician, and yet God has asked me to talk to religious people before their Judgement.

    Personally would've never believed I'd spend so long explaining something so mundane to me; my religion is built on complex musical maths.
    There seems to be an error understanding Messengers from Heaven done the same by many...

    I get we're down near Hell, so people like to accuse fault, and then sit in victory thinking they've won the debate; whilst not actually working to comprehend the alternate argument polemically, as when we can't show the maths, don't accuse of bad workings.

    Not sure where the thinking comes from, that we need to convince Judah to follow their Messiah; our ideas are well established in the many texts around the world, and they're currently standing against them... :eek:

    The prophecies ultimately say they will be removed by Holy Quantum Fire for doing so (Deuteronomy 29:19-27, Deuteronomy 32:21-22); that will reset our reality, and keep those who agree with the Everlasting Gospel (Isaiah 40:9, Isaiah 41:27, Isaiah 52:7 - Zion H6726 H1319 Good News) - only those who accept the Marvellous Work of the Lord are in the Age to Come (Zechariah 8:6-8, Revelation 15:2-3 ).

    Yeshua removed Judah and Israel for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11), and established a Snare to create a Bed of Adultery (Revelation 2:22, Isaiah 28:9-21) to catch out the wicked (Zechariah 5, Isaiah 8, Isaiah 29:9-14).

    If people don't already accept the Marvellous Work of the Lord, regardless of how few times the word Yeshua (H3444) is referenced in some of the most important places in history, according to the text they don't get to come to the age to come, and the debate is do people realize the ignorance is due to the failure in comprehension?
    Thank you, there were odd errors you've corrected the workings of; we're all only human capable of knowing things within a finite range currently...
    Because reasoning demands at least hearing an alternative side to the case (Proverbs 18:17); since God has clearly made the Tanakh cryptic (Proverbs 25:2), and we're saying here are the keys to the Messiah using a computer scientific method to show results, we'd think they'd be interested in the Marvellous Workings explained.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
    #67 wizanda, Nov 11, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  8. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Good Morning.

    I think I know what you're talking about, but I'm not sure.

    Would you please elaborate?

    Also: where is age to come / ( עוֹלָם הַבָּא ) in the text?
     
    #68 dybmh, Nov 11, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  9. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Not in Zecharia...

    Would you please cite chapter and verse?
     
  10. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    The computer scientific method is flawed and renders inaccurate results. It's buggy.

    Proverbs 18:17 is not advising to listen to buggy computer SW... can we agree this far?
     
  11. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Good Morning,
    The Messianic Age can be seen as Guestlist only; Daniel 12:1 says those recorded in the book shall be delivered, Revelation 21:27 calls it the Lambs Book of Life who are invited, Isaiah 53:12 says the Messiah shares his inheritance with the Strong.

    The Bible is a sifting process to remove the chaff from the wheat, and decide who is worth keeping; most can be shown to have blatantly failed the exam paper, as no one taught them to think for themselves.
    Nope I'm buggy at times; computers are mathematical, if we don't input the correct information is the problem.
    Proverbs is saying don't assume you know a case, before examining the data, as there might be alternative perspectives.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #71 wizanda, Nov 11, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  12. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    This is all super useful, I thank you.

    If I may fast forward to this one: "Zechariah 12:4 - Rabbinic Jews have been blinded by the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28:28-29)."

    If so, then... ain moshia. ( the last two words in Hebrew of Deut 28:29 ).

    If the curse has happened then there is no savior? { Shrug }
     
  13. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    It is possible for the Messiah to free his people, as the Word of the Lord can be as a Fire (Jeremiah 23:29); yet for this to happen they need to listen.

    If they do not listen, then it will be after that those who are chosen are saved; everyone else is deleted by the Fire.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  14. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    OK, sure, I grant you that God can annul a curse. But then... no curse no blindness right?

    I simply don't think you can have it both ways without changing the text. And this is scriptural. It's in 1 verse. If there's blindness from the curse, then there is no savior.
     
  15. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The blindness is from a lack of discernment; we can teach them to be wiser, and they will see.

    They're blinded and crawl along the walls (Isaiah 59:10, Deuteronomy 28:29), as they need to press the light switch on; I was born with this knowledge to show them.
    Show the verse please.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  16. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    It's the same verse you quoted above...

    upload_2019-11-11_6-55-8.png

    If the claim is made that the blindness in this verse is currently effecting Jewish people... then there is no savior. It's all there. Cursed with blindness "v'ain moshia" which literally traslates to "and no savior".

    Look at it mathmatically. v, vav = and

    They way you are reading this verse it's as if you are dropping the last two words off the text. Don't remove those words from your understanding of this verse.

    v'ain moshia = And no savior.
     
    #76 dybmh, Nov 11, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  17. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    How about this one?

    What is the relevance?
     
  18. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Keywords, and symbolism like parables are used to identify the timelines between prophets; plus by more than one witness is a word established.
    Thank you good point, hadn't noticed the Deuteronomy 28:29 ending; if we look for multiples of that phraseology across the Tanakh:

    Isaiah 43:11, Isaiah 45:21-22 cryptically linked to our topics phraseology: ('and none' 'besides') which is the the difference between El and Elohim in Isaiah 46:9.

    The reason for the Curse is that the Rabbinic Jewish ideas that have existed since Babylon have missed that El is above the Elohim.

    Then at the end of Isaiah 59:11-21 would be the coming of the Messiah with the Lord spirit upon him; who can then free the people from their hypocrisies.
    The Sanhedrin paid Judas, which is the same word in Greek for Judah, 30 pieces of silver for the price of the Messiah; Judas then hangs himself in the Potters Field, and Judah received the same in terms of the 2nd Temple Destruction, Diaspora, Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28), and next the Quantum Fire because they rejected the Curse (Deuteronomy 29:19-27)... Then the Messianic Age (Deuteronomy 30:1-10).

    This metaphorically is that they had to pay the 30 pieces of silver, as it was ordained.

    In the Apocalypse of Abraham the disciple kisses the Messiah as the way to shortened the days of ungodliness, which the Tanakh shows the same is prophetically taking place.

    30 pieces is the price of a slave or the prostitute in Hosea 3:1-2, where the price of a Homer of Barley and 15 pieces is paid; which metaphorically becomes 'jesus' the fake idol or beast that is sold to the nations as a way to get cheap salvation, whilst missing the wisdoms of Yeshua interlinking within the Tanakh.

    The idea Judah paid for their own Messiah's death, is contextual to Ahaz paying the Assyrians in Isaiah 7 to destroy the Northern Kingdom (Israel).

    The whole thing is an amazing work of textual engineering, with so many layers to it.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #78 wizanda, Nov 11, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  19. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Just to confirm that I understand ( I'm not intending to debate / just for clarification ):

    Do you think the curse in Deut 28:29 is currently in effect?
     
  20. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Whilst the Exile among the Gentiles was taking place, we can clearly say over the last two thousand years it has.

    Deuteronomy 29:19-27 has not happened yet, and personally always like to believe we can educate people, even though from very young have had memories of the time to come, and the land is pure again.

    Yes the Curse is clearly on the Rabbinic Jews, else they'd be the one's teaching Gentiles about Yeshua/Yehoshua.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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