Are The Jehovah's Witnesses Still The Truth?

[Katzpur]

Only if you believe that the Bible is every word of God, Since no man has heard the Father (true God), we rely on the gift given by Jesus (Holy Spirit). Since it was given by Jesus, how did the OT get written?

Well, first off, I don't believe that Jesus is the Holy Spirit, so in order to debate the origins of the Old Testament, we'd have to first debate the existence of the Holy Spirit as being distinct from Jesus. And I don't think you want to go there -- at least not in this thread. Secondly, I don't believe the Bible to be "every word of God." I do, however, believe that it (both the Old and the New Testaments) were inspired by God, who communicated to mankind through the Holy Spirit.

I follow what Jesus says. Not what men say God says. And only the Holy Spirit inspired men to write the Word that exists in many places, and not the prison of the NT.

You lost me there.

Man wasn't given celestial authority. No man is worthy enough. Many was given the knowledge of the celestial "WAY". Which Jesus said he was. The OT, Qu'ran, and yes, the Book of Mormon was given by "angels". Not the Father. Only the Holy Spirit speaks for the Father and Jesus.

Whatever.

 

[Katzpur]

I was a Jehovah's Witness. Early on, I had doubts about their assertion that they are "the truth", but I was already baptized as one and I was going to see it through because I considered my baptism a promise. But, I never considered that promise made to people. It was to God.

When my doubt that they are "the truth" became much stronger than the faith that I had in their efforts I still stayed. There were two reasons why I stayed for a time. One was that I wanted to know what would happen to them and the other reason was that I thought I should stay to support any others who were really there to seek righteousness. I didn't find anyone, so one day I decided "enough!" and I walked out. I never once thought of going back.

I am wondering if the Watchtower is still calling itself "Truth"?

That must have been difficult, but I applaud anyone who follows their conscience in seeking for the truth.

 

[Phantasman]

Well, first off, I don't believe that Jesus is the Holy Spirit, so in order to debate the origins of the Old Testament, we'd have to first debate the existence of the Holy Spirit as being distinct from Jesus. And I don't think you want to go there -- at least not in this thread. Secondly, I don't believe the Bible to be "every word of God." I do, however, believe that it (both the Old and the New Testaments) were inspired by God, who communicated to mankind through the Holy Spirit.

You lost me there.

Whatever.

I never said Jesus was the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit entered him at the chrism (baptism by John). It was the first time man received it. It was the voice of the Spirit that was heard "this is my son". With the Spirit Jesus received the power to make men "sons of God".

John 1:12:
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

The Holy Spirit is what makes man a son. And brethren of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the mother, missing in orthodoxy and Bible understanding.

Matthew 12:
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Seeing Mary as mother is seeing flesh. We are born of our spiritual mother and father at the chrism, just as Jesus was.

 

[Katzpur]

I never said Jesus was the Holy Spirit.

Okay. It sounded like you did, but thanks for the clarification.

The Holy Spirit entered him at the chrism (baptism by John). It was the first time man received it. It was the voice of the Spirit that was heard "this is my son". With the Spirit Jesus received the power to make men "sons of God".

You're presuming the voice heard coming from Heaven was the voice of the Holy Spirit. I'm presuming it was the voice of God the Father.

Seeing Mary as mother is seeing flesh. We are born of our spiritual mother and father at the chrism, just as Jesus was.

Uh... I don't know what you could possibly be talking about. I see you describe yourself as a Christian gnostic. I don't know anything about what they believe.

 

[Phantasman]

Okay. It sounded like you did, but thanks for the clarification.

You're presuming the voice heard coming from Heaven was the voice of the Holy Spirit. I'm presuming it was the voice of God the Father.

Uh... I don't know what you could possibly be talking about. I see you describe yourself as a Christian gnostic. I don't know anything about what they believe.

First, how can the Father have been the voice when Jesus said we have never heard his voice? When Peter wanted to build temples to Moses, Isaiah and Jesus (vision Matthew 17) was it God who spoke then as well? I see the Holy Spirit speaking as Jesus said she would (speaking only what she hears from the Father).

She basically said "don't listen to Moses or Isaiah, but only my son".

I said gnosis, not gnostic. Gnosis means knowledge, but specifically a seeker of "spiritual knowledge". I am not limited to mens beliefs or doctrines (religions). It comes with being "free" as Christ gave being free. I trust the Spirit to reveal the truth to me. If I follow man, I am blind being led by the blind. The promise is that the Spirit leads to "all" truth.

I have met many who see what I see. And many more who wish to be lazy and let men lead them.

BTW, I lived in Orem, Utah for months to learn of the LDS. So in my 40+ years of study, I speak by experiences. Read the BoM, D&C, Pearl. Studied the lives of JS and BY. Heard Spenser W Kimball speak (at the time). Studied many religions and own many books by them, including many Watchtower publications, which are actually very good.

 

[Srivijaya]

I don't know of anyone else who claims as much as the Jehovah's Witnesses do.

Calvinists? Mormons? Westboro Baptists?

 

[Phantasman]

Calvinists? Mormons? Westboro Baptists?

Add Catholics.

All are seeking. Nothing more. Seeking never ends, finding is continual. If you think you have found all truth, you are a fool.

 

[Bartholomew]

I'm sorry to here that. Remember what Jesus Said:

"your word is truth." John 17:17 NWT Jehovah's Word is ABSOLUTELY the Truth.

"Then Jesus went on to say to [his Disciples] who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really MY disciples, and you will KNOW the truth, and the truth will set YOU free."' John 8:31 NWT

"Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another, and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. But the one who has endured to the end will be Saved. And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." Matthew 24:10-14 NWT

“Now learn this illustration from the fig tree: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near. But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.”

Matthew 24:32,33 Luke 21:28 NWT

Hope this helps,

your brother,

Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses

 

[savagewind]

I'm sorry to here that. Remember what Jesus Said:

"your word is truth." John 17:17 NWT Jehovah's Word is ABSOLUTELY the Truth.

"Then Jesus went on to say to [his Disciples] who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really MY disciples, and you will KNOW the truth, and the truth will set YOU free."' John 8:31 NWT

"Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another, and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. But the one who has endured to the end will be Saved. And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." Matthew 24:10-14 NWT

“Now learn this illustration from the fig tree: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near. But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.”

Matthew 24:32,33 Luke 21:28 NWT

Hope this helps,

your brother,

Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses

Hi, @Bartholomew. Welcome to the forums.

It is written that Jesus is the truth and that Jesus is the Word. Right?

 

[Bartholomew]

Yes Because Jesus was the one who fulfilled Jehovah's prophecy:

"I [Jehovah God] will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you [Moses], and I will put MY words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. Indeed, I will require an account from the man who will not listen to MY words that he will speak in MY name."

Deuteronomy 18:18,19 NWT

 

[savagewind]

Yes Because Jesus was the one who fulfilled Jehovah's prophecy:

"I [Jehovah God] will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you [Moses], and I will put MY words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. Indeed, I will require an account from the man who will not listen to MY words that he will speak in MY name."

Deuteronomy 18:18,19 NWT

"Will raise up" means the future. Correct? But, Jehovah's Witnesses call what came before he was raised up "the truth". They call all of the scriptures the truth.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not led by one leader. They have seven. https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/governing-body/

They now have 8 members hey. His name is Kenneth Cooke, Jr.

Yes they still refer to the organisation as the truth. It is too good a use of loaded language to let it go. It is a perfect trigger word to stop a person from having doubts.