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Featured Are The Jehovah's Witnesses Still The Truth?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by savagewind, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I was a Jehovah's Witness. Early on, I had doubts about their assertion that they are "the truth", but I was already baptized as one and I was going to see it through because I considered my baptism a promise. But, I never considered that promise made to people. It was to God.

    When my doubt that they are "the truth" became much stronger than the faith that I had in their efforts I still stayed. There were two reasons why I stayed for a time. One was that I wanted to know what would happen to them and the other reason was that I thought I should stay to support any others who were really there to seek righteousness. I didn't find anyone, so one day I decided "enough!" and I walked out. I never once thought of going back.

    I am wondering if the Watchtower is still calling itself "Truth"?
     
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  2. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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  3. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Yes. Faith in a body of work is inferior to understanding the parts of a work. But, faith is the effort. Isn't it? I'd edit that thesis. Faith for understanding. Not, faith in knowledge. Let's say that to want to know is to want to be God. To want to understand is to want to be with God.
    Understanding is the communication that 1 Corinthians 15:33 applies itself to, imo.
     
  4. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    1 Corinthians 15:34 answer to v.33.
     
  5. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    you did the right thing : refused to lock yourself up in human dogma - dead end.
     
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  6. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    No religion or denomination is THE truth. That kind of theological "I'm saved and you're damned" is finally fading away albeit slowly.

    The ones I honor are like Rumi who wrote:

    Those who don't feel this Love pulling them like a river, those who don't drink dawn like a cup of spring water or take in sunset like supper, those who don't want to change, let them sleep. This Love is beyond the study of theology, that old trickery and hypocrisy. If you want to improve your mind that way, sleep on. I've given up on my brain. I've torn the cloth to shreds and thrown it away. If you're not completely naked, wrap your beautiful robe of words around you, and sleep.
     
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  7. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    My question is for those people who follow the teaching of the Watchtower. When I was a JW other JWs called what they believed "the truth". I wonder if Jehovah's Witnesses still consider what they believe in "the truth".
     
  8. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    It is ironic that the Society condemns other religious and political organizations as false prophets, when it has spent decade's actively predicting wrong "end of the world" dates that did not occur, such as 1914 being the year for end of the world, 1925 being the start of the earthly resurrection, or more recently that the battle of Jehovah would be within the twentieth century.
    The Watchtower Society goes as far as to call itself a prophet of God, comparing themselves to the prophets of old. This is a significant assertion when compared to the accuracy of Watchtower doctrine and the predictions about future dates.

    https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/jehovahs-prophet.php


    From my own experience with the Watchtower, they seem to take passages from the Bible out of context. They'd quote a passage then go on for the rest of the page expounding on their theology which seem to me to stretch any actual correlation to the passage referred to.

    I don't know much about their history but it was hard to take them seriously after that.
     
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  9. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Not to be argumentative, but don't all religions and their denominations believe they have the truth? If they thought they didn't they there would be no reason to assemble.

    .
     
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  10. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I don't know of anyone else who claims as much as the Jehovah's Witnesses do.
    They say that they alone know the way in which a believer in God should go. They say that Jesus is only with them. They say that to live forever on a Paradise Earth a person must side with them about what the Bible really teaches. They say that to please God a person must obey the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses. All that they have called, "the truth". My question is; do they still call themselves that?

    There are no other major religions who have ever taken that name. Is there?
     
  11. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I think that other Christian denominations call Jesus, "the Truth". The Jehovah's Witnesses call themselves that.......or they did. I am wondering if they still do.

    I think there is a huge difference in what a person thinks, and what they believe and teach others to believe in.
     
  12. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    The water baptism is nothing more than a commitment to release the flesh and seek the Spirit. It is neither affected by the water or the religion. It is self commitment through a physical ritual. The ritual means nothing, the commitment does.

    If one goes down into the water and comes up without having received anything, and says "I am a Christian," he has borrowed the name at interest. But if he receives the Holy Spirit, he has the name as a gift. He who has received a gift does not have to give it back, but of him who has borrowed it at interest, payment is demanded. This is the way it happens to one when he experiences a mystery.= Gospel of Philip

    The water doesn't wash away sins. The commitment does, since we were ignorant of sin until we committed. Not to the church, but to the Spirit that "leads" us to truth. No matter where that truth resides.

    The JW, just like you or most religions, are "seeking" the truth. It isn't just one thing, but many things.

    A Christian knows what Christ means.

    The chrism is superior to baptism, for it is from the word "Chrism" that we have been called "Christians," certainly not because of the word "baptism". And it is because of the chrism that "the Christ" has his name. For the Father anointed the Son, and the Son anointed the apostles, and the apostles anointed us. He who has been anointed possesses everything. He possesses the resurrection, the light, the cross, the Holy Spirit. The Father gave him this in the bridal chamber; he merely accepted (the gift). The Father was in the Son and the Son in the Father. This is the Kingdom of Heaven.- Gospel of Philip

    Without this knowledge, man follows other men. This is the blind (Jesus spoke of).

    Just my opinion.
     
  13. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Thank you for that opinion @Phantasman.

    Do you know if Jehovah's Witnesses are still calling their way, "the truth"?
     
  14. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Maybe someone else can ask a JW because they are ignoring me. :D
     
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  15. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    Does't matter. Jesus said that he was the truth. If someone seeks the Word some other way, they are "robbers and thieves" of the truth.

    John 6:
    53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
    54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Orthodoxy tries to say that this is the Eucharist. It is the Word and Spirit, respectively.

    Some are afraid lest they rise naked. Because of this they wish to rise in the flesh, and they do not know that it is those who wear the flesh who are naked. It is those who [...] to unclothe themselves who are not naked. "Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Co 15:50). What is this which will not inherit? This which is on us. But what is this, too, which will inherit? It is that which belongs to Jesus and his blood. Because of this he said "He who shall not eat my flesh and drink my blood has not life in him" (Jn 6:53). What is it? His flesh is the word, and his blood is the Holy Spirit. He who has received these has food and he has drink and clothing.- Gospel of Philip

    The JWs spend too much effort on physical blood, and it's legitimate uses over the spiritual message Jesus taught of it. This stems from OT ideology being present where it interferes with spiritual understanding of the "mystery" of the Gospel, IMO.

    Eating wafers and drinking wine makes as much sense as seeking the deepest water for a baptism. It is a requirement of flesh (physical things) when Christ said "flesh profits nothing". But I do believe the JWs have found other non orthodox ideologies that do lead towards Gospel truth. Like the building decorations and office (lack of) a priest, giving way to elders instead. One man should "never" be a leader of a congregation.
     
  16. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Jehovah's Witnesses are not led by one leader. They have seven.
    https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/governing-body/
     
  17. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    A separation from the idea of a "Pope". I said the JWs were moving in the better direction. The Mormons have their one leader as well. Celestial authority comes from no (one) man. Or 7. Or 12. Or even 300 (at Nicaea).

    Only the Spirit leads one to truth.
    John 16:12-14
    12 “There is so much more I would like to say to you, but it’s more than you can grasp at this moment. 13 But when the truth-giving Spirit comes, he will unveil the reality of every truth within you. He won’t speak his own message, but only what he hears from the Father, and he will reveal prophetically to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify me on the earth, for he will receive from me what is mine and reveal it to you.

    Footnotes:
    1. John 16:13 The Greek word for “truth” is “reality,” not “doctrine.” It is the application of truth that matters, not just a superficial knowledge.
    2. John 16:14 As translated from the Aramaic. Or “he plants what is mine and shows it to you.”
    The Passion Translation (TPT)
     
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  18. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    The JWs who knock on my door all say their way is 'The Truth'. But afaik, none of them post here, although in the last few years some of them carry around smart-thingies which access the internet.(Or maybe a JW intranet?.
     
    #18 Jedster, Jan 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  19. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Celestial authority comes from God, but He has always used human beings to pass along His truths. If that were not the case, we wouldn't have the Bible, now would we?
     
  20. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    Only if you believe that the Bible is every word of God, Since no man has heard the Father (true God), we rely on the gift given by Jesus (Holy Spirit). Since it was given by Jesus, how did the OT get written?

    I follow what Jesus says. Not what men say God says. And only the Holy Spirit inspired men to write the Word that exists in many places, and not the prison of the NT.

    Man wasn't given celestial authority. No man is worthy enough. Many was given the knowledge of the celestial "WAY". Which Jesus said he was. The OT, Qu'ran, and yes, the Book of Mormon was given by "angels". Not the Father. Only the Holy Spirit speaks for the Father and Jesus.

    John 16:
    12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    The Passion translation spells it more clearly:

    12 “There is so much more I would like to say to you, but it’s more than you can grasp at this moment. 13 But when the truth-giving Spirit comes, he will unveil the reality of every truth within you. He won’t speak his own message, but only what he hears from the Father, and he will reveal prophetically to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify me on the earth, for he will receive from me what is mine and reveal it to you.

    Footnotes:
    1. John 16:13 The Greek word for “truth” is “reality,” not “doctrine.” It is the application of truth that matters, not just a superficial knowledge.
    2. John 16:14 As translated from the Aramaic. Or “he plants what is mine and shows it to you.”
    The Passion Translation (TPT)
     
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