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Are the crusades or religious wars a good counter point to Atheism as a tool in communist regimes?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by infrabenji, Jul 31, 2021.

  1. infrabenji

    infrabenji Active Member

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    Atheism is a position one holds. A lack of belief in God or Gods. It’s inherently benign. If anything is coupled with many other ideologies, propagandas, moral and economic disparities et al. It can be used to radicalize people while absolving them of any moral imperative. Atheism has only been recently used in conjunction with political regimes. Atheism is more the focal point for American Christians as a result of McCarthys red scare. Unlike Atheism religious texts and practices have been used as a tools of political regimes for thousands of years. Religious texts are also self contained regimes, definitionally “a system or planned way of doing things. One imposed from above.” Religious texts have within them all the components used by so called “Atheist regimes”, including and most prevalent, the moral absolutism needed to commit atrocities and think it is the work of god. This has been demonstrated time and again. Religion and atheism cannot be categorized together in this way. This is a false dichotomy. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god or gods and is prima facie innocuous. Religion, as demonstrated, is obviously much more than that. Thought’s?
     
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  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I'm with you generally, but I think that whether religious texts have within them all the components of the harsher regimes depends on how you interpret the texts.

    To say that the texts have within them all the harsher components would seem to imply that the texts have a "true" interpretation and it is yours.

    In my opinion.
     
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  3. infrabenji

    infrabenji Active Member

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    Very interesting. Thanks for that. I think that because the passages in religious texts are so subject to interpretation that they are made more dangerous because they can be twisted.
     
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  4. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    I mean...I agree. It points more to what atheism isn't, than anything.
    But any set of positive claims can run the same risk you're pointing to religion on, including political ones.
     
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  5. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    Malleable religious texts permit adherents to claim God's approval for whatever action they choose.
     
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  6. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Well, the same is part the case of e.g. communism. You can even see a similar effect for the idea of humans rights.
     
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  7. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Are the crusades or religious wars a good counter point to Atheism as a tool in communist regimes?
    Say what?
     
  8. infrabenji

    infrabenji Active Member

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    So I’ve come across quite a few religious people mostly Christian who use atheism in communism as evidence that atheism is bad or without morality or leads people to war etc… I’ve had seen several conversations where an atheist brings up religious wars as evidence religion is bad etc… sometimes in the same conversation. Are these good counter points? I’m making the argument that they are not. Do you have any thoughts about the validity of these arguments as either a Christian or an atheist?
     
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  9. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    First you need to make the distinction if it's a religious or political matter.
     
  10. infrabenji

    infrabenji Active Member

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    It’s a religious one. I’m looking for religious and atheist opinions as I’ve come across these arguments from both atheists and religious people on several religious debate pages. Religious wars and Atheism as used in communism aren’t the same thing is the argument I’m making. Sometimes when making this argument I’ve heard Christians say “atheist religion” in communism for example. I’m trying to make the argument that the two are not the same.
     
  11. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clarifying, I don't see the validity of these arguments either.
     
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  12. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    The Crusades, probably the most foremost comes across as both religious and politically fuelled.
     
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  13. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Probably because there was no separation of church and state.
     
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  14. infrabenji

    infrabenji Active Member

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    I feel like religion and state have never been separated. Though I think they should be. I don’t know that for a fact but it seems like some religion has always demanded at a seat at the table of politics. Maybe this stems from, especially with Abrahamic religions, their religious leaders originally being the law makers, and judges, and de facto leaders before they had kings and government or whatever? I think since the French Revolution we’ve had some form of atheists representation but it wasn’t until the 19th century that we have record of atheism being used in conjunction with politics. I always wondered if atheism as represented in communism is such a big deal to Christianity in America because of the red scare and the subsequent propaganda claiming atheism as anti god and therefore anti American?
     
  15. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    It's not so much the atheism that is such a big deal in my opinion, it's that the communist leader controls all the purse strings. Around 1920 when priests and ministers in the U.S. found out that the church plate couldn't be passed around in the newly formed Soviet Union they freaked. After decades of preaching the evils of communism you got the red scare.
     
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