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Are Shrines a Form of Idolatry?

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
It seems as if shrines are associated with many different religions.....so what is a shrine and what do they mean for the people who visit them?


China
images
Japan
images


Iran
images
Lourdes
images


Bankok
images
Baha'i
images


Tibet
images
Italy
images
images


Israel
images
Mecca
images



Here are some definitions......

“A place of religious devotion or commemoration, such as:
  • A place where devotion is paid to a deity or deities, as in Shinto.
  • The tomb of a saint or other venerated person.
  • A location where an important event in the life of a holy person is thought to have occurred.
A container or receptacle for sacred relics; a reliquary.

A site hallowed by association with a revered person or object or with an important event.

Any site or structure used in worship or devotion; esp., an area or a temple or templelike structure used in the worship of one or more deities.

The definition of a shrine is a holy or sacred place, or a small area or monument dedicated to someone, or a place known as the site of a religious occurrence or a historical event.

A holy or sacred place dedicated to a specific deity, ancestor, hero, martyr, saint, or similar figure of awe and respect, at which said figure is venerated or worshipped.

A case, box, or receptacle, especially one in which are deposited sacred relics, as the bones of a saint.

A niche or other setting for a statue, picture, or other object arousing or designed to arouse devotion.

A small area or structure arranged for private devotion.

A place revered as the place of death or burial of a saint or other venerable personage.

A place revered as the site of a reported supernatural apparition, miraculous occurrence, etc.

Any of certain churches or chapels often visited by pilgrims, specif. by those seeking special spiritual help, cures, etc.

A place or structure esteemed for its importance or centrality as in history or the arts.

A place or structure designed as a memorial to someone or something.

A place or object hallowed from its history or associations.

A shrine of art.”


SHRINE | 19 Definitions of Shrine - YourDictionary

Why do people need to see images, or to have 'holy places' in order to worship their gods?
Why is this such a universal thing?

Thoughts?
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Why do people need to see images, or to have 'holy places' in order to worship their gods?
Why is this such a universal thing?
Are you asking, "why do humans endow places and objects with meaning?" Because we are capable of feeling sentimental and objects associated with those sentiments gain value to us.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Are you asking, "why do humans endow places and objects with meaning?" Because we are capable of feeling sentimental and objects associated with those sentiments gain value to us.

When can endowing an object or a place, step over into idolatry do you think?
When does the sentiment become worship?
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
When can endowing an object or a place, step over into idolatry do you think?
When does the sentiment become worship?
Since I believe people should be allowed to pursue their relationship with the divine or whatever you want to call it--so long as no one is harmed--the question of idolatry is irrelevant.

If YOU are concerned that YOU don't want to engage in idolatry, then by all means take all reasonable steps to avoid it.

But your definition of idolatry should have no impact on anyone elses' choices of when, where, why, what, and how to worship. What you do, I might consider to be idolatry or worse; what I do you might consider the same: do we really want to be deciding for each other what is right?

I certainly don't.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
When can endowing an object or a place, step over into idolatry do you think?
When does the sentiment become worship?

One of the reasons, and there are many, is that it's a designated place to do a certain thing, and that's to pray. We cook in kitchens. We sleep in bedrooms. We pray at shrines. There is more power to it when it's a designated place.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It seems as if shrines are associated with many different religions.....so what is a shrine and what do they mean for the people who visit them?


China
images
Japan
images


Iran
images
Lourdes
images


Bankok
images
Baha'i
images


Tibet
images
Italy
images
images


Israel
images
Mecca
images



Here are some definitions......

“A place of religious devotion or commemoration, such as:
  • A place where devotion is paid to a deity or deities, as in Shinto.
  • The tomb of a saint or other venerated person.
  • A location where an important event in the life of a holy person is thought to have occurred.
A container or receptacle for sacred relics; a reliquary.

A site hallowed by association with a revered person or object or with an important event.

Any site or structure used in worship or devotion; esp., an area or a temple or templelike structure used in the worship of one or more deities.

The definition of a shrine is a holy or sacred place, or a small area or monument dedicated to someone, or a place known as the site of a religious occurrence or a historical event.

A holy or sacred place dedicated to a specific deity, ancestor, hero, martyr, saint, or similar figure of awe and respect, at which said figure is venerated or worshipped.

A case, box, or receptacle, especially one in which are deposited sacred relics, as the bones of a saint.

A niche or other setting for a statue, picture, or other object arousing or designed to arouse devotion.

A small area or structure arranged for private devotion.

A place revered as the place of death or burial of a saint or other venerable personage.

A place revered as the site of a reported supernatural apparition, miraculous occurrence, etc.

Any of certain churches or chapels often visited by pilgrims, specif. by those seeking special spiritual help, cures, etc.

A place or structure esteemed for its importance or centrality as in history or the arts.

A place or structure designed as a memorial to someone or something.

A place or object hallowed from its history or associations.

A shrine of art.”


SHRINE | 19 Definitions of Shrine - YourDictionary

Why do people need to see images, or to have 'holy places' in order to worship their gods?
Why is this such a universal thing?

Thoughts?

According to Christianity, yes...
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
When can endowing an object or a place, step over into idolatry do you think?
When does the sentiment become worship?

Take the bible. The Bible is "just" a book. However, that "pang" of-wait no it's not! Is a similar connection people have with other physical things like urns and ashes, statues, prayer beads, and tomb stones. Something about the intimate connection you and people have within their religions becomes their idol aka object or person of worship. The physical bible is no different than physical statues. It goes beyond the objects. Whether it be "Word" or spirits of ancestors.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Since I believe people should be allowed to pursue their relationship with the divine or whatever you want to call it--so long as no one is harmed--the question of idolatry is irrelevant.

If YOU are concerned that YOU don't want to engage in idolatry, then by all means take all reasonable steps to avoid it.

But your definition of idolatry should have no impact on anyone elses' choices of when, where, why, what, and how to worship. What you do, I might consider to be idolatry or worse; what I do you might consider the same: do we really want to be deciding for each other what is right?

I certainly don't.

I was more asking why people of almost all faiths, have some sort of physical or sentimental attachment to a place or object, and whether that fits in with their overall belief system?

For those who accept idolatry, it will pose no problems, but for those who belong to faiths where idolatry is forbidden, it opens up some interesting questions.

That is what this thread is more focused on. The choices we make have attachments of their own....but to whom and what?
When does our attachment to, or reverence for, an object or place, become idolatry, if the God we worship says its wrong?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
One of the reasons, and there are many, is that it's a designated place to do a certain thing, and that's to pray. We cook in kitchens. We sleep in bedrooms. We pray at shrines. There is more power to it when it's a designated place.

Since many of those who like the idea of a shrine or sacred place to worship, find it creates the right atmosphere for prayer or devotion to their deities, did the Christian God limit his worship to a specific place?

Did the first Christians have shrines? Or even any buildings of note?

Did places or objects carry any special meaning to these disciples of Christ?

What about relics? Can they become idols too?

Those who practice idolatry as a tenet of their faith will see nothing wrong with these things....but its not just directed to those people....

It is obviously a universal idea to have such a place, or to hold something material as sacred....so where did this practice come from?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why do people need to see images, or to have 'holy places' in order to worship their gods?
Why is this such a universal thing?

Thoughts?
Let's not forget that there was a temple in Jewish religion, which was in fact the same thing as all of these places you cited. A place of worship. Sites for devotion are there to bring people together, and to direct the devotees attention to the divine, which the shrine or temple is designed to invite and encourage for the faithful.

When does it cross over into idolatry? When a focus of our devotion becomes an excuse to ignore the principles of your religion and place your beliefs ahead of love. The bible itself, is one example where many faithful turn it into an idol, worshiping their beliefs about it, over the needs and sufferings of others. It's idolatry, when it's used to promote your ego, instead of inspiring faith.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Since many of those who like the idea of a shrine or sacred place to worship, find it creates the right atmosphere for prayer or devotion to their deities, did the Christian God limit his worship to a specific place?

Did the first Christians have shrines? Or even any buildings of note?

Did places or objects carry any special meaning to these disciples of Christ?

What about relics? Can they become idols too?

Those who practice idolatry as a tenet of their faith will see nothing wrong with these things....but its not just directed to those people....

It is obviously a universal idea to have such a place, or to hold something material as sacred....so where did this practice come from?

I'm not Christian so I can't help you with most of it, but it seems to me the term 'idolatry' is personal, and varies, and there is no universal definition.

I should clarify what I said before. A designated spot makes it better, it doesn't mean it's a necessity. I say prayers anywhere, any time. But the temple, or shrine room is better. You can cook in your bedroom, or sleep in your kitchen too. I don't know but there could be a JW service in a park, instead of a Kingdom Hall, no?
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Why do people need to see images, or to have 'holy places' in order to worship their gods?
Why is this such a universal thing?

Thoughts?
I think there are lots of good reasons for this.

First of all it unite people around something everyone can understand and experience. People love to feel or be part of something, especially if its appears important and majestic.
EwFBga5j_6TT8evF1GfaTbj5zX-fN48k-DnKBbiMlS47ri4ydfvplmojaqJKiG7lftqdMz9vVM3e24qdOcghEJciePg2NMuPprpsMqWqvgQz85QUAiTCjQ


Its hard to deny, that this show is not impressive. Compared to there not being any churches like this and people just sitting at home and doing their own praying etc. in their living room. Furthermore, I also think it helps makes ones religion seem more "powerful" and "correct", if you can impress people. Also think it helps people feel closer to their faith, knowing that they are not alone and can share it with others.

Besides that, I also think there are a lot of tradition in this carried over from ancient times. Imagine how it would look if your religion, churches, shrines etc. looked like some cheap unimpressive thing. One would have wanted to present ones God(s) as powerful and better than the other gods. Honestly I think it follows a lot of the same ideas as that of a military parade, when it comes to impress people.

Its very difficult to convince people of something, if it is done half assed :D
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
I was more asking why people of almost all faiths, have some sort of physical or sentimental attachment to a place or object, and whether that fits in with their overall belief system?

For those who accept idolatry, it will pose no problems, but for those who belong to faiths where idolatry is forbidden, it opens up some interesting questions.

That is what this thread is more focused on. The choices we make have attachments of their own....but to whom and what?
When does our attachment to, or reverence for, an object or place, become idolatry, if the God we worship says its wrong?
Okay; have fun. To those of us in faiths where idolatry isn't a concern, it raises some interesting questions about those faiths where it is a concern.

I made a conscious choice to stop considering an ancient book as the source and focus of my beliefs, instead looking to my experiences (as well as the experiences of family, friends, and others I respect) as a source of meaning and attachment.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Take the bible. The Bible is "just" a book. However, that "pang" of-wait no it's not! Is a similar connection people have with other physical things like urns and ashes, statues, prayer beads, and tomb stones. Something about the intimate connection you and people have within their religions becomes their idol aka object or person of worship. The physical bible is no different than physical statues. It goes beyond the objects. Whether it be "Word" or spirits of ancestors.

Words in a book are not tangible things like statues or geographical places of religious significance. The Bible is no more an idol to believers than an instruction manual is to an engineer or mechanic. If the engineer or mechanic proceeds to worship the author of their instruction manual, and starts to reverence some possession of his....then that might be a problem.

But as long as your worship is directed to the only legitimate object of worship, (the one who authored the instruction manual for his worshippers) there is no problem. There is only one legitimate object of devotion for both Jews and Christians....and that is the God who authored our scripture. He shares his place with nothing and no one.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
I see the separation of the sacred from the profane as being one hallmark of religion. You withdraw from societal hub-bub and create your own holy space to do your religious practices. (Pray in your closets!) If you are praying out in public just to be seen, you are not withdrawing from the societal hub-bub to do your personal work--rather you are looking to interface with the public rather than withdraw from it.

You can look at showy shrines in another manner: using territorial behavior to mark your space/separate it from the public and gain privacy. If you ever look at an area where animals mark their territory with an ultraviolet light, you will see just how showy it actually is. Ancient Greeks did this sort of territorial boundary marking with their herma.
 
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