Are religious people doing it wrong?

[Spirit of Light]

The question that come to me this morning was," Are religious people doing it all wrong" ? What does this mean? It means (to me) maybe we're trying too hard to get others to follow what we believe in our self? What if we do not portray what we want others to see, in the right way? Maybe we should only focus on our own development and not worry so much about others? Instead of telling them what they should do or believe, maybe it would be better to only explain the religion/cultivation path we follow to them, and let them self decide if it is something for them or not. And if they ask question, we could explain what we understand, but not in the same line say, that we are right, and they are wrong. Would not that make our self wrong too?

 

[Dawnofhope]

One who is on the crooked path can not guide another towards the straight path. He must first teach his own self before he can teach others.

OTOH we all have some knowledge and wisdom to varying degrees we can share with others. We don’t need to be perfect to teach others. As we breath in, so too must we breath out.

 

[Spirit of Light]

One who is on the crooked path can not guide another towards the straight path. He must first teach his own self before he can teach others.

OTOH we all have some knowledge and wisdom to varying degrees we can share with others. We don’t need to be perfect to teach others. As we breath in, so too must we breath out.

I fully agree with you on this @adrian009 To know our own path first is the only way we could guide others. Unfortunately i have fallen for this mistake many times my self. To be sure i knew the answer, then to realize moments later that what i just said did not actually turn out to be the full truth, I had not understood it the correct way (according to the teaching i cultivated) That said, i have come to conclusion that i should not try to lead others because i am no leader I am a student my self (Falun Gong) So i should not and can not speak about others understanding of their religion or cultivation path anymore. I have to focus on what my cultivation is, and how I my self can become more wise within Falun Gong.

 

[Howard Is]

The question that come to me this morning was," Are religious people doing it all wrong" ? What does this mean? It means (to me) maybe we're trying too hard to get others to follow what we believe in our self?

I have always felt that missionary spiritual ambition is suspect.
Those with an inclination to introspection will introspect.
That cannot be forced by obligation, coercion or the slippery soliloquies of spiritual salesmen.

 

[McBell]

Something my Grandmother lived by: "Spread the word of God far and wide. Use words only if you have to."

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The question that come to me this morning was," Are religious people doing it all wrong" ? What does this mean? It means (to me) maybe we're trying too hard to get others to follow what we believe in our self? What if we do not portray what we want others to see, in the right way? Maybe we should only focus on our own development and not worry so much about others? Instead of telling them what they should do or believe, maybe it would be better to only explain the religion/cultivation path we follow to them, and let them self decide if it is something for them or not. And if they ask question, we could explain what we understand, but not in the same line say, that we are right, and they are wrong. Would not that make our self wrong too?

We are in discussion. I need to remember that.
So here it goes from my path about your path:
We are both in a world with limited cognitive relativism. That is that there are several version of right and wrong and not only one version of Right and Wrong. In religious terms Right and Wrong are with God. We have to do with several versions of right and wrong, because we are humans.
I do believe in Right and Wrong, but I don't claim anything about that in my path. That is with God. I only speak as a human with limited cognitive relativism for different kinds of right and wrong.

Regards and love. You go, human, you be your own best. That is the best you can do as far as I can tell. The Best is with God.
Mikkel

 

[Spirit of Light]

We are in discussion. I need to remember that.
So here it goes from my path about your path:
We are both in a world with limited cognitive relativism. That is that there are several version of right and wrong and not only one version of Right and Wrong. In religious terms Right and Wrong are with God. We have to do with several versions of right and wrong, because we are humans.
I do believe in Right and Wrong, but I don't claim anything about that in my path. That is with God. I only speak as a human with limited cognitive relativism for different kinds of right and wrong.

Regards and love. You go, human, you be your own best. That is the best you can do as far as I can tell. The Best is with God.
Mikkel

It is true that as human beings we see truth or Right and wrong in one way, and God/s may see it very differently then we do. But to realize that even the path i am on give me a form of answer, that answer does not need to be the same answer that others get. But we can both be right But as a person who might have used this form to Proselyte(accused of it anyway) before, I would maybe need to rethink my way of speaking because as i say, My understanding does not always add up to how the truth actually is. (then someone would ask me what is truth) And that in my understanding would now be answered similar to, Truth is not a constant as long we are human beings, because we always learn to see a thing in new ways that give light to truth we did not see before. So this is why i say i will from now not claim that i know the truth, because i know only a part of it.

 

[Howard Is]

It is true that as human beings we see truth or Right and wrong in one way, and God/s may see it very differently then we do. But to realize that even the path i am on give me a form of answer, that answer does not need to be the same answer that others get. But we can both be right But as a person who might have used this form to Proselyte(accused of it anyway) before, I would maybe need to rethink my way of speaking because as i say, My understanding does not always add up to how the truth actually is. (then someone would ask me what is truth) And that in my understanding would now be answered similar to, Truth is not a constant as long we are human beings, because we always learn to see a thing in new ways that give light to truth we did not see before. So this is why i say i will from now not claim that i know the truth, because i know only a part of it.

In my experience the truths that matter are very personal.
It is the quality of relationship and the personal peace of mind and heart that are the proof of any truth worth knowing.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It is true that as human beings we see truth or Right and wrong in one way, and God/s may see it very differently then we do. But to realize that even the path i am on give me a form of answer, that answer does not need to be the same answer that others get. But we can both be right But as a person who might have used this form to Proselyte(accused of it anyway) before, I would maybe need to rethink my way of speaking because as i say, My understanding does not always add up to how the truth actually is. (then someone would ask me what is truth) And that in my understanding would now be answered similar to, Truth is not a constant as long we are human beings, because we always learn to see a thing in new ways that give light to truth we did not see before. So this is why i say i will from now not claim that i know the truth, because i know only a part of it.

You are there. The rest is daily practice so you get better as your truth and not the truth for us all. How to do it in regards to others is something else in that it in one sense requires its own thread, but we can also do it here, if you like.

Regards and love
Mikkel

 

[osgart]

A spiritual path as a subject of conversation is usually talking about things of a personal nature yet can be expressed objectively.

I use mostly language that is of common use in describing my path. I don't wish to teach it to anybody but rather I wish to share and express my path to those who have a spiritual path already.

Also I feel that much of moral truth has objective basis in reality. So I sense that my path could be of service to people who are open to these kinds of expressions.

I have had positive feedback sometimes.

I don't ever think of myself as some sort of master teacher. I grapple with the issues of spiritual concerns.

I think we are all trying to learn and unlearn ways. People choose a spiritual path to edify and grow themselves. Spiritual paths by nature are paths that naturally want to express themselves.

However in the course of living I don't like to share too much with people. It depends on the person.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The question that come to me this morning was," Are religious people doing it all wrong" ? What does this mean? It means (to me) maybe we're trying too hard to get others to follow what we believe in our self? What if we do not portray what we want others to see, in the right way? Maybe we should only focus on our own development and not worry so much about others? Instead of telling them what they should do or believe, maybe it would be better to only explain the religion/cultivation path we follow to them, and let them self decide if it is something for them or not. And if they ask question, we could explain what we understand, but not in the same line say, that we are right, and they are wrong. Would not that make our self wrong too?

Or maybe it would be best to not say anything about the religious/cultivation path we follow at all unless asked and demonstrate the path we follow in our actions and behaviors.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The question that come to me this morning was," Are religious people doing it all wrong" ? What does this mean? It means (to me) maybe we're trying too hard to get others to follow what we believe in our self? What if we do not portray what we want others to see, in the right way? Maybe we should only focus on our own development and not worry so much about others? Instead of telling them what they should do or believe, maybe it would be better to only explain the religion/cultivation path we follow to them, and let them self decide if it is something for them or not. And if they ask question, we could explain what we understand, but not in the same line say, that we are right, and they are wrong. Would not that make our self wrong too?

I tend to think religion as being a very personal and private thing. When it comes right down to it on all practical levels, it really deals only with the one person who has an ability to speak with that 'inner voice'.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I tend to think religion as being a very personal and private thing. When it comes right down to it on all practical levels, it really deals only with the one person who has an ability to speak with that 'inner voice'.

Yes i agree on this

 

[metis]

What does this mean? It means (to me) maybe we're trying too hard to get others to follow what we believe in our self?

Amen to that, which is why I'm much more ecumenically oriented and can't stand the "my way or the highway" approach some take to bash others and other religions and denominations than their own.

Yes, they have a right to do that, but it all too often seems that some are on an ego-trip that sorta is "Look at me, I belong to this perfect religion/denomination, and you gullible saps are really not of God as yours is pagan!".

 

[sun rise]

Something my Grandmother lived by: "Spread the word of God far and wide. Use words only if you have to."

St. Francis of Assisi said that.

That's my belief. If we live our ideals, people will naturally want to know more.

Ramakrishna said the same thing poetically:

 

[PureX]

The question that come to me this morning was," Are religious people doing it all wrong" ? What does this mean? It means (to me) maybe we're trying too hard to get others to follow what we believe in our self? What if we do not portray what we want others to see, in the right way? Maybe we should only focus on our own development and not worry so much about others? Instead of telling them what they should do or believe, maybe it would be better to only explain the religion/cultivation path we follow to them, and let them self decide if it is something for them or not. And if they ask question, we could explain what we understand, but not in the same line say, that we are right, and they are wrong. Would not that make our self wrong too?

People are going to believe what they want. There really isn't much any of us can do about that. Nor should we, in my opinion. After all, what does any of us really know that matters that others couldn't figure out easily for themselves, if they wanted to?

I think what does matter, though, is that we support each other physically. So that we can maintain the freedom and the luxury of investigating and determining our beliefs for ourselves. I think religious people need to shut their mouths about their "beliefs", unless they're asked, and instead focus their energy on helping their fellow humans gain a level of physical security that will allow them to explore their own beliefs, for themselves. (This includes the religion of "scientism".)

 

[Mock Turtle]

I know this might come across as discrimination, or downright intolerance, but if the religious (of any particular faith) did not stand out in the community so much, often to challenge the societies in which they live or have moved to, then there might be less friction. The obvious one being the use of niqabs and burqas, which tends to give the impression of a segregated community (females in black, males often in white) when this is just not expected or aimed for in many countries and where equality is mostly expected and treasured. And we know that Muslims in many countries do not follow such apparent doctrines or cultural traditions. There is always the fear of 'being eaten from within' by cultures or beliefs alien to the indigenous population even if such is not founded in reality.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I know this might come across as discrimination, or downright intolerance, but if the religious (of any particular faith) did not stand out in the community so much, often to challenge the societies in which they live or have moved to, then there might be less friction. The obvious one being the use of niqabs and burqas, which tends to give the impression of a segregated community (females in black, males often in white) when this is just not expected or aimed for in many countries and where equality is mostly expected and treasured. And we know that Muslims in many countries do not follow such apparent doctrines or cultural traditions. There is always the fear of 'being eaten from within' by cultures or beliefs alien to the indigenous population even if such is not founded in reality.

I understand your intention with the answer, and i don't disagree. but in my understanding the Niquab and burkas could also be a cultural thing, and not directly related to the religious path, I do not know Islam enough to speak for them, but did Muslims really wear head covers that much before 1970 or so? I imagine it was a bit more free earlier. (if anyone know the answer to this, let me know)

 

[Mock Turtle]

I understand your intention with the answer, and i don't disagree. but in my understanding the Niquab and burkas could also be a cultural thing, and not directly related to the religious path, I do not know Islam enough to speak for them, but did Muslims really wear head covers that much before 1970 or so? I imagine it was a bit more free earlier. (if anyone know the answer to this, let me know)

As an earlier comment mentioned, all too often it comes across as 'look at me and how much better I am', even if it is just a cultural tradition. And from my travels in the UK, one can see many Muslim communities of both sorts - some being predominantly niqab and burqa wearers and many not - and the nots generally seem far more integrated and accepted.

 

[Spirit of Light]

As an earlier comment mentioned, all too often it comes across as 'look at me and how much better I am', even if it is just a cultural tradition. And from my travels in the UK, one can see many Muslim communities of both sorts - some being predominantly niqab and burqa wearers and many not - and the nots generally seem far more integrated and accepted.

This i can agree on