Are people who are on welfare/Social Security psychic vampires?

[RedDragon94]

On page 75 of The Satanic Bible Anton LaVey says that there are plenty of people in the world who make a practice of making others feel responsible to them without reason. Politically what does that translate into as far as people taking care of other people? Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

How does one know whether they are a psychic vampire and how does that person drive the stake of responsibility through their heart? (Yes, I just made up that term.)

I'll check back later.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

A psychic vampire is, in LaVey's use, a person who uses other people's sense of pity to fulfill their wants or needs. By making themselves look pitiful, they arouse other's sense of pity and then they feel obligated to the o-so-pitiful person.

That isn't always the case with those on welfare or government help. Sometimes they are responsible people in the wrong situations. Even though LaVey emphasizes the ego and self-preservation, he does justify being kind and giving to others. On page 51, LaVey's exact words are "If you do something to make someone for whom you care happy, his happiness will give you a sense of gratification." If you do care about wether or not someone is doing poorly, you'll be happier doing something about it. On the other hand, you can just ignore them and not care at all. But it is nice when someone can prove responsibility and use help for a goal to a good life, which isn't parasitic. Psychic vampires are parasitic because that's their lifestyle. They will feed off the help of others until they die or change their ways.

I will point out that LaVey's brand also has Social Darwinism. I usually interpret it as those who are not responsible and self-providing, with future goals and ambitions, will have to either change to compete or become smaller in number. That's their choice, though, and not one I can control. Psychic vampires are probably a great example of this population that becomes smaller. There might be several vampires around at any given point in history, but as long as there are responsible and self-sustaining people, they are insignificant and hold society back, and they will be outcast because others want progression.

So to answer your question, some people do take advantage of the welfare system and are parasitic, but the welfare system is also a way to support those who probably got laid off because less jobs are needed in thier area and it has nothing to do with how responsible that person is, so they need to request extra support to move to a more opportunistic area to find another job. It's a so-so situation. There's some good and some bad to it.

 

[RedDragon94]

A psychic vampire is, in LaVey's use, a person who uses other people's sense of pity to fulfill their wants or needs. By making themselves look pitiful, they arouse other's sense of pity and then they feel obligated to the o-so-pitiful person.

That isn't always the case with those on welfare or government help. Sometimes they are responsible people in the wrong situations. Even though LaVey emphasizes the ego and self-preservation, he does justify being kind and giving to others. On page 51, LaVey's exact words are "If you do something to make someone for whom you care happy, his happiness will give you a sense of gratification." If you do care about wether or not someone is doing poorly, you'll be happier doing something about it. On the other hand, you can just ignore them and not care at all. But it is nice when someone can prove responsibility and use help for a goal to a good life, which isn't parasitic. Psychic vampires are parasitic because that's their lifestyle. They will feed off the help of others until they die or change their ways.

I will point out that LaVey's brand also has Social Darwinism. I usually interpret it as those who are not responsible and self-providing, with future goals and ambitions, will have to either change to compete or become smaller in number. That's their choice, though, and not one I can control. Psychic vampires are probably a great example of this population that becomes smaller. There might be several vampires around at any given point in history, but as long as there are responsible and self-sustaining people, they are insignificant and hold society back, and they will be outcast because others want progression.

So to answer your question, some people do take advantage of the welfare system and are parasitic, but the welfare system is also a way to support those who probably got laid off because less jobs are needed in thier area and it has nothing to do with how responsible that person is, so they need to request extra support to move to a more opportunistic area to find another job. It's a so-so situation. There's some good and some bad to it.

Okay so let's say somebody was a schizophrenic who was bad at controlling money and lives with their parents, yet this person has a part time job and pays taxes & bills. Are they parasitic?

 

[SabahTheLoner]

Okay so let's say somebody was a schizophrenic who was bad at controlling money and lives with their parents, yet this person has a part time job and pays taxes & bills. Are they parasitic?

Schizophrenia is a disorder. Because the schizophrenic requires help, they will need to request help. They are only parasitic if they plan to do this for the rest of their life. A responsible parent who cares about their child would want to help them grow, and they will do so.

A person can be responsible despite disabilities they might have. They might need help with this, but not because they are parasites. A disorder hinders functioning, and isn't voluntary. Psychic vampires are voluntarily being incompetent, but the schizophrenic somehow unwilling developed a disorder. Because schizophrenia isn't voluntary, the schizophrenic isn't parasitic because if their condition, but what they intend to do despite it.

 

[RedDragon94]

Schizophrenia is a disorder. Because the schizophrenic requires help, they will need to request help. They are only parasitic if they plan to do this for the rest of their life. A responsible parent who cares about their child would want to help them grow, and they will do so.

A person can be responsible despite disabilities they might have. They might need help with this, but not because they are parasites. A disorder hinders functioning, and isn't voluntary. Psychic vampires are voluntarily being incompetent, but the schizophrenic somehow unwilling developed a disorder. Because schizophrenia isn't voluntary, the schizophrenic isn't parasitic because if their condition, but what they intend to do despite it.

So divinity is present in all things, it just has to be disciplined/discovered. True or false?

 

[SabahTheLoner]

So divinity is present in all things, it just has to be disciplined/discovered. True or false?

Divine is a personal word, because everyone has a different idea for it. Personally, I don't really believe in absolute divinity.

 

[RedDragon94]

Personally, I don't really believe in absolute divinity.

I guess what I mean is something divine is something living. And all of nature, including humans, is divine.

 

[Liu]

I think it's completely fine for a Satanist to be a psychic vampire.

I'd understand LaVey's text here as a warning against being abused by other psychic vampires without even noticing. But how would taking all resources you can get hold of be in any way unsatanic?


Regarding "divine", I suppose you can guess my reply considering I'm a pantheist.

 

[RedDragon94]

I think it's completely fine for a Satanist to be a psychic vampire.

I'd understand LaVey's text here as a warning against being abused by other psychic vampires without even noticing. But how would taking all resources you can get hold of be in any way unsatanic?


Regarding "divine", I suppose you can guess my reply considering I'm a pantheist.

Define your version of pantheism and how it's honorable to be constantly taking from others who are also divine.

 

[Liu]

Define your version of pantheism and how it's honorable to be constantly taking from others who are also divine.

Honourable? I believe that there is no such thing objectively as honour or morality. Whatever we do, we do it because it's what the circumstances and our own characteristics cause us to. So there is no free will, and therefore nothing that could be called guilt/sin/dishonour.

Except for if one goes against one's own convictions, this could be called dishonourable. But that is not a moral issue, but a psychological one.

What I mean by pantheism is that I believe that all of existence seems to be coherent in certain ways, and therefore one something/entity. Since at least parts of it are conscious, and consciousness seems like a completely different thing from all that one can be conscious of, I don't think that conscioussness per se could be caused by matter. So I assume that consciousness is also a general property of this entity, and therefore I call it the divine. I don't think it has one coherent mind or personality in any way similar to what we have, if any at all, but we can imagine it, or aspects of it, as personifications, which is what we then call deities.

And this divine something is pretty much all the time busy causing harm to other parts of itself. You can't live without "constantly taking from others who are also divine".

 

[RedDragon94]

Honourable? I believe that there is no such thing objectively as honour or morality. Whatever we do, we do it because it's what the circumstances and our own characteristics cause us to. So there is no free will, and therefore nothing that could be called guilt/sin/dishonour.

Except for if one goes against one's own convictions, this could be called dishonourable. But that is not a moral issue, but a psychological one.

What I mean by pantheism is that I believe that all of existence seems to be coherent in certain ways, and therefore one something/entity. Since at least parts of it are conscious, and consciousness seems like a completely different thing from all that one can be conscious of, I don't think that conscioussness per se could be caused by matter. So I assume that consciousness is also a general property of this entity, and therefore I call it the divine. I don't think it has one coherent mind or personality in any way similar to what we have, if any at all, but we can imagine it, or aspects of it, as personifications, which is what we then call deities.

And this divine something is pretty much all the time busy causing harm to other parts of itself. You can't live without "constantly taking from others who are also divine".

Okay. So you admit that magick is in a way harmful because part of oneself dies and is reborn sort of like nature?

 

[Liu]

Okay. So you admit that magick is in a way harmful because part of oneself dies and is reborn sort of like nature?

Magick per se? As harmful as any other action.
Cursing someone else to death? Yes. If it works, then your description sounds accurate.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Some, sure and without doubt. However, I would hesitate before labeling even half of those recipients as such. Many are on hard times, down on their luck, and have exhausted all private options (if there are any to be found).
It's definitely something you'd have to approach on a case-by-case basis. But, even with those taking advantage, the Randian influence found in LaVey makes me think the question may be a bit trickier than a simple yes or no, as "rational self interests" can most definitely include taking advantage of and even remaining on welfare.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

I'd understand LaVey's text here as a warning against being abused by other psychic vampires without even noticing. But how would taking all resources you can get hold of be in any way unsatanic?

Satanism is very LHP, even LaVey's brand despite the dogma. You have freedom, but others also have that freedom. Sure, we want what we think is best for us, and we can employ tatics to get it, but we also should take into account the fact others are also interested in themselves. Non-magical, dramatic psychic vampirism is not concerned about other's freedom or wants and self-responsiblity, therefore it goes against the philosophy found in the Satanic Bible. Psychic vampires will go back to targets they know will pity and submit to them in order to get the feeling that they are monarchs. Responsible people will ask for something and once they get it, will use it to progress. Maybe some types of vampirism isn't against the philosophy, but acting like an absolute monarch of the world to get what you want isn't helpful or wise. You can certainly desire that, but you need to prove to yourself and others you deserve it and that you will be responsible. It all boils down to the question "what can I do to be happy without being a ***** to everyone else so they don't get back at me?" We all want a good life, both now and in the future. That takes some planning and footwork, to ensure minimal conflicts. Conflicts are not really a nice thing to have.

 

[Sutekh]

@RedDragon94 Your mileage may vary, my own definition of a psychic Vampire is a person who pretends to be your friend or someone that you care or trust dearly, this Vampire makes you feel at ease, however on the other hand that person isn't truly your friend instead as a psychic vampire he just takes his advantage on you.

 

[RedDragon94]

@RedDragon94 Your mileage may vary, my own definition of a psychic Vampire is a person who pretends to be your friend or someone that you care or trust dearly, this Vampire makes you feel at ease, however on the other hand that person isn't truly your friend instead as a psychic vampire he just takes his advantage on you.

So there's no connection politically?

What about people in society who can manage themselves but choose not to?

 

[Sutekh]

So there's no connection politically?

Some people who have occupations or connections can also be Psychic Vampires, I wasn't implying just "so- called friends." But my own definition of a Psychic Vampire comes from my experience alone, I wasn't necessarily implying that one group is just your average go to go go Psychic Vampire. Many of us come from different diverse ranges.

 

[Sutekh]

What about people in society who can manage themselves but choose not to?

Those who are capable of managing themselves and choose not to are lazy to do so. However when it comes to taking advantage of a person who thinks you are a friend but instead you are simply using him to ones own advantage like using a disabled toy than that is my definition of a Psychic Vampire, a person who drains ones energy henceforth taking advantage of your well being.

 

[RedDragon94]

Some people who have occupations or connections can also be Psychic Vampires, I wasn't implying just "so- called friends." But my own definition of a Psychic Vampire comes from my experience alone, I wasn't necessarily implying that one group is just your average go to go go Psychic Vampire. Many of us come from different diverse ranges.

Those who are capable of managing themselves and choose not to are lazy to do so. However when it comes to taking advantage of a person who thinks you are a friend but instead you are simply using him to ones own advantage like using a disabled toy than that is my definition of a Psychic Vampire, a person who drains ones energy henceforth taking advantage of your well being.

Right, just wanted to make sure you and I were on the same page.

 

[Liu]

Satanism is very LHP, even LaVey's brand despite the dogma. You have freedom, but others also have that freedom. Sure, we want what we think is best for us, and we can employ tatics to get it, but we also should take into account the fact others are also interested in themselves. Non-magical, dramatic psychic vampirism is not concerned about other's freedom or wants and self-responsiblity, therefore it goes against the philosophy found in the Satanic Bible. Psychic vampires will go back to targets they know will pity and submit to them in order to get the feeling that they are monarchs. Responsible people will ask for something and once they get it, will use it to progress. Maybe some types of vampirism isn't against the philosophy, but acting like an absolute monarch of the world to get what you want isn't helpful or wise. You can certainly desire that, but you need to prove to yourself and others you deserve it and that you will be responsible. It all boils down to the question "what can I do to be happy without being a ***** to everyone else so they don't get back at me?" We all want a good life, both now and in the future. That takes some planning and footwork, to ensure minimal conflicts. Conflicts are not really a nice thing to have.

Sure. But there seems to me to be much grey area between being the prototypical kinds of psychic vampire and self-responsible person you describe.
And so what I meant in my last post was that using techniques of psychic vampirism doesn't necessarily mean that one isn't working at getting more self-responsible and may even need using this to achieve that.