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Featured Are Pastors true believers?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, May 21, 2018.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I was taught that the UU church of Dallas Tx was started in the early 60s by mostly Theology students from Baylor Theology school. They said most of the students going to Baylor at that time to become Preachers were Atheist.

    They think that teaching and being a Christian Pastor is the only way to get people to do the right thing and live right so they live the lie.

    I have often questioned weather or not my Pentecostal pastors were true believers. I had one Pastor who had a guy who said he was demon posessed, we layed hands on him and it was taking along time to do the exorcism.
    Brothe r*tan*8 asked his wife what was taking so long to get rid of his demons and why wasn't he acting like he believed the demon was gone.

    I took that to mean my Pentecostal pastor thought it was in his mind. I have thought about this a few times do they really believe?
     
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  2. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Based on cultural nonsense, Jesus was an atheist you don't see him running around believing. then again you don't actually see him running around not believing either. In fact as the story is written no one understood him at all.

    So by some magic of reading 2,000 years removed in Texas we magically have clarity? What proof I see no proof. Based on what proof? What someone BELIEVES? Ha b.s..... if I didn't know better I would be an.atheist myself.... instead I write In obtuse fashion and play my Guitar.. Atheism seems like a reaction to familial dysfunction of I, or we, believe or a new dysfunction I, we, don't believe. Same building different pews.
     
  3. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    Some are "true believers" (which has nothing to do with whether or not they are right). Some like to be in a position of authority. To some (many) it is simply a money making scheme.
     
  4. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Interesting post, Riders. I must admit, I've always had a strong liking of UU myself, which is what prompted me to read your OP.

    You also triggered a memory: The Clergy Project

    As for your story? Well, I grew up in the pentecostal cults, and I do think many leaders in that group, did not truly believe all the things they were saying: They often preached of how "saintly" it was to be poor-- while wearing custom silk suits, sporting $1000 watches and always driving a new luxury car every year.

    So I took it to mean, "saintly" only ever applied to the congregation, whereas there was a Special Dispensation for the leadership, who were permitted to be filthy rich (often while some members in the congregation went hungry, or had to choose to either pay rent, or the electricity...).

    The older I got, the wider the hypocrisy became-- if asked, the pastors would exclaim, "oh, this in't my car-- this is god's car!" Yeah.. the church "owned" the car, tax-free, but for the exclusive and solitary use of the pastor? Sure, bub, sure... whatever makes you feel good at night.
     
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  5. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    A pastor, reverend, priest has nothing any man or woman can have, including (spiritual) understanding. The temple is the body (mind) of the individual where the Spirit resides.

    If laying of hands did something (anything) then Christ lied when he said "the flesh profits nothing" (John 8).

    The "church" teaches that they (and their leaders) are/know the Spirit. But they merely have set up fleshly rituals over spiritual knowledge. What profits a man to eat (physical bread) and drink (physical wine)?

    "Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Co 15:50). What is this which will not inherit? This which is on us. But what is this, too, which will inherit? It is that which belongs to Jesus and his blood. Because of this he said "He who shall not eat my flesh and drink my blood has not life in him" (Jn 6:53). What is it? His flesh is the word, and his blood is the Holy Spirit. He who has received these has food and he has drink and clothing.- Philip

    Eating Christs flesh is to eat his teachings (knowledge). Not some piece of broken crackers the priests give.

    The flesh/spirit difference.
     
  6. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    That's also true in India of many apparent sadhus.
     
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  7. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    @Riders , I wanted to throw this in concerning some of the more extreme forms of Pentecostalism. I have an acquaintance who attends a United
    Interesting.
     
  8. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Yes I was a member of the United Pentecostal church for 9 years.They don't trully believe the same way other Christian churches do. Besides Jesus they also believe being Baptized in the name of Jesus also saves you along with the baptism of the Holy Ghost and evidence of speaking in tongues.
     
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  9. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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  10. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    They do have some extreme views concerning salvation. Yes there are tongues spoken of in scripture (though I do not believe in the modern interpretation), yes it is mentioned a baptism in Jesus name (no argument there), but to assume that to not speak in tongues or adhere to there interpretation of baptism sends a person to hell is IMO ridiculous.
     
  11. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    The Corinthians were having issues in knowledge, IMO.

    Corinth 14:
    19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
    20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

    This is reflective of growth:

    Corinth 13:
    11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

    Tongues never were as important as understanding (knowledge). It was just a new thing those at Corinth experienced in their growth, which faded as knowledge took them from children (of the gospel) to men'women in growth.
     
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  12. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    I grew up in one of those-- if you didn't regularly speak in "tongues", you were considered a heretic.... sadly, the more outlandish the babbling, the better they thought you were...

    ... I'm now quite certain most (if not all) were simply faking....
     
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  13. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    I have a theory that what was happening at Corinth was that those early Christians were trying to mimic what they had heard happened at Pentecost, where everyone there no matter the language they spoke understood what the Apostles were saying. Instead what they ended up with was a bunch of noise that Paul rebuked them for, saying basically, if you behave like that people will think your either drunk or crazy. IMHO of course.
     
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  14. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    The ones I went to were cult like but not all Pentecostal churches are bad. Some are good some are bad, but the ones with the strict dress codes like I went to are the ones to run from, ladies have to have long hair no makeup no jewlry and wear dresses only everyday every where except when they are at home much like the Muslims who use a dress code.
     
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  15. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    We use to run the aisles thats what we called it referring to running around the church real fast like you got bees in your pants.
     
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  16. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    And you are now "Bob the unbeliever". Did this upbringing influence where you are now?
     
  17. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    I have seen that. Ever think of tripping anyone?:rolleyes::cool:
     
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  18. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! It is one of a long string of events, which led me to realize that if there IS a god?

    It's principle attribute, is one of Chaos and Confusion.

    To me, the very existence of self-proclaimed Man (or Woman) of God, who then goes on to bleed their people dry, to live lavishly (and often immorally), and to twist every single aspect of their religion, to serve their own selfish behaviors?

    Is pretty solid proof that if there is a god, it really doesn't give a flying fig about poor old humanity.

    IF there were actual consequences and/or some form of after-life, based on how we are to live?

    THEN, it behooves any god or supreme being, to make the Rules Clear without ambiguity--

    But even more importantly? It behooves a being to STOP any and all False Leaders in their tracks.

    To allow such to continue to preach false dogma? Is to be negligent of their Responsibility-with-an-R.

    The fact that these cults, and these shysters can trick people with impunity? Proves to me, to 100%, that there cannot possibly exist any gods who care.... at best, only completely indifferent gods may exist.

    And those sorts? Can go to the devil. Screw them-- I have no use for such, just as they have no use for humanity.
     
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  19. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure there are a wide variety of pastors. As you mentioned, some are even atheists.

    But generally speaking I would say they are. Maybe some need more teaching?
     
  20. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I don't know about the Pentecostals, however I suspect some feel they fulfill a necessary role in society of councillor, officiating marriage and death. Motivating folks towards the social good even though they may be more agnostic than believer.
     
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