Are Muslims "Saved"?

[Scott1]

chuck010342,

so I guess the Catholic answer is KILL THEM ALL? I could be wrong let me know if I am

You are quite wrong chuck..... Kill them all?...... that does not sound very Christian, why in the world would you think that?

Peace,
Scott

 

[chuck010342]

I didn't say that. That is what the Catholic church taught

 

[Scott1]

I didn't say that. That is what the Catholic church taught

Chuck..... the topic of this thread is about CURRENT Catholic teaching..... you gotta pay attention.

If you would like to start another thread about the crusades, I would be happy to educate you about history.

Scott

 

[chuck010342]

well does the catholic church view Jews the same way they view muslims? the catholic church did kill jews and muslims that is history. The catholic church did it before so I guess they could do it agian. but perhaps your right and I shouldn't post that here I just wanted everybody to know a little history about the so called church

 

[Scott1]

chuck010342,

well does the catholic church view Jews the same way they view muslims?

Not quite:
839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God." The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."

As far as the rest of your post............. :retarded:

It is just Catholics that you hate, or Jews and Muslims too? I am curious to hear the teachings of a follower of Jesus, like yourself.

Scott

 

[Ardhanariswar]

"As far as Muslims are concerned, they have anti-Christian beliefs. In that respect, those who are "real" Muslims will not enter heaven. "


no. no muslim has anti christian beliefs. who do you get such faulty information from? holy cow.

really, even those *few* muslim terrorists out there, hello, they arent even muslim if they are practicing violence and hatred. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.

Good god. every religion has a violence perpetueated by fundamentalists. i would hope that you, OFPeace, would realize that and wisen up. looks like you have been brainwashed.

yes, i do understand the fact that christains view jesus as THE son of God and not just any prophet. but muslims do enter heaven because God told them a different path than the ones of christians. its different, who cares, they still enter heaven.
you guys are soo afraid of whats just different. omg, look, he has a different skin colour of mine, a different lifestyle. you are not acting like a christian, you are acting like a fearful insect. jesus ate with sinners.

 

[OfPeace]

Don't imply I am a racist. I view all races, and both genders, as the same. Equality is with Christians.

Don't depend on what I say to determine the truth. I give you information that you should investigate.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Don't imply I am a racist. I view all races, and both genders, as the same. Equality is with Christians.

Don't depend on what I say to determine the truth. I give you information that you should investigate.

'Equality is with Christians'? So, does this mean that everyone is equal, as long as they're Christian? Or that it is the attribute of Christians to see everyone as equal? I'm a little confused. Here's the benefit of the doubt, where I interpret it you were trying to say something nice.

And you 'giving' us information that we should investigate implies ignorance on our parts. That part I'm hoping I've misinterpreted.

 

[Mister Emu]

yes, i do understand the fact that christains view jesus as THE son of God and not just any prophet. but muslims do enter heaven because God told them a different path than the ones of christians. its different, who cares, they still enter heaven.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6

It is my greatest hope that God will give everyone until the final judgement to come to Christ.

 

[AgreeToDisagree]

no. no muslim has anti christian beliefs. who do you get such faulty information from? holy cow.

I agree with you. Jesus Chirst literally means Yeshua The Messiah which refer to Isa Al-Masih in the Quran. To be an Anti-Christ would mean and Anti Messiah. Certainly the Quran accepts Jesus as the Christ. Therefore Muslims are not Anti-Christ.

The Christians believe that salvation is through accepting that Jesus Christ died for our sins. The Muslims however believe that salvation is through submission to the will of Allah/God. How does this 2 things relate?

The essence of Islam is "peace obtain by submitting to the will of Allah". In essence, Jesus Christ did say something about submitting to the will of Allah / God

Joh 4:34 Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish his work.
Joh 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Lu 22:42 saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done."
Mt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.


The verses above are the very essence of Islam. That is submit/do the will of God Almighty.



I believe Hinduism has the similar concept of submitting to the will of God (correct me if i'm wrong).


The word Islam has a broad meaning. It doesn't just refer to the only Religion of Islam that the mass thinks it is. Anyone who submits to the will of God the one and only, are considered muslim.



The Quran also tells us about how some non-muslims are saved and commended the good nature of the Christian Monks and Priests.




Edit: So if the Christians believe that salvation is through accepting the death of Jesus for our sins ... The Muslims believe that salvation is through accepting the teaching of Jesus in regards to submitting to the will of God.

 

[AgreeToDisagree]

Edit: So if the Christians believe that salvation is through accepting the death of Jesus for our sins ... The Muslims believe that salvation is through accepting the teaching of Jesus in regards to submitting to the will of God.

 

[AgreeToDisagree]

sorry i'm new here .. i was trying to edit my post but accidentally typed in the "Post Quick Reply"

 

[heretic]

This is a question for a Catholic person. I just wanted to know why the Catholic church considers Islamists to be "saved" when they do not believe in Jesus as the Son of God or in the trinity.

really ? I though that catholic church refuses any religion or believes that doesn't go
with it's essentail beleives , not only Islam , even orthodox christianity and others

As I understand it, according to most Christian theology, belief is the whole basis for being saved. Does the Catholic church view salvation differently then?

all religions view salvation in different ways , but this doesn't mean that doesn't
mean that catholic view of salvation is the true one .

 

[heretic]

From eternal judgement, Maize. You can't go to heaven unless you are perfect, because God is holy, and since none of us are, many Christians (myself included) believe that you have to become united with Christ, who was perfect, to be saved.

who said jesus was perfect ? , jesus is a human being as me and you , he has his
needs and desires ,if he was perfect , why then he barely called God -his father- begging him why he left him ?

I prefer to be united with myself , because God created me imperfect , and I expect God's justice to judge me as imperfect

 

[heretic]

johnnys4life,
....... faith without works is DEAD faith.

:yes:

 

[heretic]

You know who you surrender to DontFearMe (a Muslim)? You surrender to your societal leaders, that's who. These are your pillars of society and Islam: ambitious men seeking to be masters: to control a group of people, to advantage their ego and their life styles (and NOT THE PEOPLE.) A true Muslim submits to other peoples' opinions. That's why Muslims cannot live with anyone having a different faith and being of a different race (than Arab.)

The god of Islam is not the Christian God, nor the Jewish God. When a Muslim refers to his god, he should refer to Allah. Don't forget, Arab Earth is the cause of Islam.

I'm wondering what is that above , is it christianity or christian , and I'm wondering
where were you when the church -not christianity- was burning any man , woman , or even a child in the sake of control all people, to the advantage of bishops , Popes and other (holy men !!)

and I'm wondering where were you when the church killed any body who doesn't agree with it's opinions and words ,in the charge of heresy and all in the name God !?

MUSLIMS WILL NOT ENTER HEAVEN.

will you go to heaven for such post

Muslims believe it a right to murder. Muslims believe it a right to deceive. Muslims have to be prejudice and racist.

give me a break , isn't the church who killed thousands of jewes because their God is different than theirs , isn't it the church who killed thousands on muslims in the holy land and jerusalem because they don't beleive in jesus the savior as a son of God , isn't the church who built piles of cut heads and bodies of muslim children and women , in the name of God ?!! , isn't the church who made the streets of muslim cities streams of their bloods in the name God ?

Muslims have to pursue their fleshy desires at any cost.

really , I didn't hear about a muslim holy man or imam or whatever called raped a child , but I heard of hundrends or thosands of christian holy men raped thousands of children all over the world for their fleshy desires , what a cost :cover:
oh may be it was in the name of God , also.

Are Muslims my enemy? Yes

I think your enemy is yourself

Christianity-love, peace, heaven

are you christian ?

 

[heretic]

In regard to DontFearMe's previous response to one of my previous posts, I can contradict every claim he made about Islam, but I won't because I don't want to drag the discussion on. However, I direct you to learn more about the culture of Muslims: investigate (on the Internet) the history of Muslim countries' handling of Christians in the Middle East and surrounding areas, such as in Lebanon, Armenia, Greece, Russia, Turkey, India, Egypt, Iraq, etc. You will find that Muslims' idea of tolerance is not so appealing.

and I direct you to learn more about the religion itself rather than the culture and history of who bellieve in it , don't assess a religion according to to the behaviors of its beleivers

because people are assessed according to the religion ,not the religion assessed according to the people who beleive in , in such approach I assure that catholic christianity is the worst religion in the world .

otherwise I direct you to learn more about the christianity as a religion and it's beautiful virtues , and learn more about the history of the christian churchs in europe in the dark ages .you'll be very proud of it , really .

 

[work in progress]

and I direct you to learn more about the religion itself rather than the culture and history of who bellieve in it , don't assess a religion according to to the behaviors of its beleivers

Fortunately, most religions do change over time, due to the needs and desires of their adherents facing new issues and challenges.

A good example would be this thread topic here! Back in the days when there were virtually no Muslims living in the West, and we never came in contact with any Muslims, the issue wouldn't be of great concern to most Christians. But, if you live in a city that is a diverse collection of people from all around the world, the old time exclusive rules for salvation start making adherents feel a little uneasy. If you know people who are Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists...or Catholics, and believe they are going to hell because they want to follow the religion of their communities and family tradition, that starts getting a lot of fundamentalists turning into universalists....at least according to the polls! But the one that really gave me a kick, is this one produced by Beliefnet and ABC News:

Forty-three percent in an ABCNews/Beliefnet poll think pets go to heaven when they die. But about as many, 40%, think heaven is reserved for people only. The rest are withholding judgment, possibly until Judgment Day.​

Read more: ABCNews/Beliefnet Poll: Do Pets Go to Heaven? - Beliefnet.com

See what's happening here is that for the first time in human history, our separation from killing animals for our food, and our close relationships with our animal companions is starting to create a need to expand heaven for animals. It's an imaginary exercise anyway, but if there was such a thing as soul going on to an immortal afterlife, there is a strong desire to make it inclusive, rather than an exclusive club for a small group of adherents of any one particular religion.
​

because people are assessed according to the religion ,not the religion assessed according to the people who beleive in , in such approach I assure that catholic christianity is the worst religion in the world .

Then being a Christian should present a few problems for you, since the Catholic Church collected the manuscripts and decided on what the canon should be. So how did the "worst religion in the world" provide you with the bible you take your authority from?

 

[JacobEzra.]

This is a question for a Catholic person. I just wanted to know why the Catholic church considers Islamists to be "saved" when they do not believe in Jesus as the Son of God or in the trinity. As I understand it, according to most Christian theology, belief is the whole basis for being saved. Does the Catholic church view salvation differently then?

Weird, because under your name says your religion is Roman Catholic, and your DP has what looks to be a priest in it. o.0

Anyway, he is what is taught in the Catechism.

The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329


840 and when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. the Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. the Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334


Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

 

[AgreeToDisagree]

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Simply put, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are Abrahamic religion. These three faiths worship the god of Abraham.
Who is the best of judge if not God (of Abraham)? Saved or not saved is all up to Him. It'll be better off for us to concentrate on our effort to strengthen our faith rather than judging one another as destined to go to hell.

Cheers
ATD