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Are Muslims "Saved"?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by johnnys4life, Sep 3, 2004.

  1. OfPeace

    OfPeace Guest

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    Allah is not the Christian God. That is the greatest misconception of Islam there is. He is viewed as a god, but he is not the same as God. Allah has the opposite objectives to God's objectives.

    People need to get it straight. Yes, the Quran mentions Christians and Jews, but it identifies nothing accurate about us.
     
  2. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    Then are you saying there is more than one God?
     
  3. OfPeace

    OfPeace Guest

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    Yes, that is a fact acknowledged even by God.
     
  4. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    thats his point of view. but as a hindu, i believe that all religions are just different pathes to the same God/gaol/salvation/spiritual fuzzayness.
     
  5. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    my point is that i thought christians thought that jews, christians and muslims worship the same God? yes, i think it was true. my religion teacher said so.
     
  6. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    IF there is a god, there is only one, so therefore you would be worshipping the same one as all the other religions.
     
  7. Rex

    Rex Founder

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    Why only one?
     
  8. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Ok...... to help you understand, you will have to answer a question for me:

    A man is shipwrecked on a desert island as a baby and raised by monkies.

    He lives his whole life searching for a "Higer power"....... he sits every day and night speaking to the unknown for guidance. He sincerely wants to know what life means and if there is a "force" in the universe that cares about him...... "What is the meaning of life?" ...... he asks this unseen "force" that he has come to believe created the world and his life....

    He is just. He is honest. He is loving.

    He dies.

    By your view........ he goes to HELL....... right? He never came to profess Jesus Christ as his Lord and "personal Savior".

    Rotting and burning in hell.......... right?

    No, johny's girl........ not my God. My God would never judge this man worthy of damnation because he never heard of Jesus Christ.

    If you think that man I described is worthy of ETERNAL FIRE....... well, God bless you, I can only hope that your wrong.

    Peace in the MERCIFUL arms of God,
    Scott
     
  9. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Because if there is an almighty and powerful god who controls everything, there is no need for more than one. It's only logical (in my head anyway).
     
  10. OfPeace

    OfPeace Guest

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    First commandment:
    I am the Lord your God. You shall not have any god other than me.

    If they teach (significantly) different things, then Allah and God are not the same. Remember, too, that the Quran must be read in Arabic. That's why it's only apt for Islam's got to be called Allah.
     
  11. DontFearMe

    DontFearMe Member

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    My apologies to the author of this thread, this somehow as you said has become a forum to hate on Islam. First, there is not one socialist leader I follow, so try again. The pillars of Islam are five, do you happen to know them? And you wouldn't know what a true muslim is as I can tell you hardly know anything about my faith.

    Speaking of God, you say the God of Islam is not the same God of Christianity nor Judaism. Well in response I will say this, the Jews do not worship Jesus, they reject him. So there is no way they worship 'your' God. I will also say that, since you don't know, that Arab Christians use the same word "Allah" in refernce to God. So you seem a little in the dark. Lastly, you admitted, rather you said 'your' God admits that there are indeed other Gods. Well, if so I would categorize you almost as a pagan if you do believe in other Gods regardless of your prohibition to worshipping them. In Islam, there is no God but one.

    Oh dear just rhetoric with no proof. Islam prohibits racism and there is no gray on this matter as the Prophet Muhammad said that a white is no better than a black, nor an arab better than a non arab. Al Quran also states that God created us into different nations and tribes to know eachother, and the best of us is he who best regards God. Period. Islam doesn't support murder, actually Islam hold an eye for an eye. If you murder someone you will be sentenced to death unless the family of the deceased forgives you , then you will pay blood money. So try again.

    Um, I dont really care if you view me as your enemy, you have nothing to do with my life. And there is really nothing you are going to do about the fact that Muslims exist in this world, so maybe you should take your hate and shove it cuz no one wants to hear it.
     
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  12. johnnys4life

    johnnys4life Pro-life Mommy

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    SOGFPP, This is where you misunderstand me again. I am not saying I think that people who have never heard of Jesus will go to hell. That wouldn't be fair. But knowing about him and rejecting him for who he is is quite a different thing. Obviously Muslims do know about Jesus because they know about the Bible, it is even referenced in the Quran.
     
  13. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    johnnys4life,

    Hmmmmmmm..... really now?

    So which is it?

    Rrrrrrrrrright...... knowing Jesus is no more than hearing his name mentioned?

    OK OK...... everyone reading this pay attention: JESUS IS LORD!

    Now they have no excuses right?

    If that last sentence didn't convince them, well, it's right to hell with their souls right?

    To truly know Jesus takes more than a book or internet post..... it takes teachers, and I don't believe God will damn the souls of billions becase they have never come to truly know Jesus Christ.

    Peace,
    Scott
     
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  14. johnnys4life

    johnnys4life Pro-life Mommy

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    I am totally confused here. Do you believe that salvation is through Christ or not? If someone has never heard the gospel, they are not liable for what they do not know. God is just and merciful. Some people believe they will have a chance to hear the gospel and repent in the afterlife. I'm not sure. I certainly don't think they can be held responsible for what they don't know, but consider this: Jesus created all things (John 1:3). God created all things (Genesis 1, Isaiah 45:12, 45:18,etc.) Therefore, Jesus is God, and all creation testifies that there is a God (Romans 1:20), so there is no excuse for being an Athiest. That would make me think that anyone who has not heard the gospel, but still worships the God who created everything, worships Christ in a way. But if someone does know the Bible, and refuses to believe it, they reject Christ and therefore reject God. I do not know if most Muslims read the Bible or not, I do know that most have heard of it and have the opportunity to read it, so I think they should be held accountable for that. Also, I do know that they know what we believe about the trinity and about Jesus's death on the cross, and yet choose to believe otherwise, that is clear from reading the Quran. So I think of that as a rejection of Christ as He is, and therefore a rejection of God. But I am starting to see where the Catholic church may be coming from on this issue, I'm just not sure it's right.
    Do you believe that Jews, Muslims and Christians all worship the same God? Because I think if they really knew God they would have accepted Jesus when he came and believed everything He said.
    But why preach the gospel at all if everyone except those who completely reject the idea of God are saved? Most people do believe that there is a god of sorts. But they may not believe in the real living God. Are you saying that anyone who believes in one god is saved?
     
  15. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    j4l,

    Now we are cooking!

    Ooooooooh, so maybe Muslims who profess to worship the God of Abraham (same as you and I by the way)....... worship Christ in a way? Hmmmmmm :)

    So, by your view, if they know that a Christian Bible exists? Damned?

    If a Muslim hears the name Jesus....... damned?

    what about if they read one verse of Scripture......... damned?

    Ok, what if they read one chapter and read my last post that Jesus is Lord? damned now?

    Where do you draw the line? Can't? Welcome to the truth my friend..... :)

    If you have been tought that Muslilms are going to hell, you might just want to rethink your entire faith system. SOMEONE had to convince you that it was true....... I wonder why they did that? Hmmmmmmm makes you think don't it?

    There are several "Christians" on this forum who DO NOT believe in the Trinity. Are they going to hell?

    There are several "Christians" I have met that deny the resurection? Are they going to hell?

    Yes, in my opinion, EVERYONE on the planet worships the same God for there is only one......... some might call him Buddah, some might call him Voo-doo man, whatever, but whatever is good and true in their faith is surely God Almighty.

    As far as that last part of your sentence "Because I think..." I would just like to say that while I respect your opinion, I just don't feel you are qualified to give your opinion to other Christians...... In the Bible, Jesus chose those who would be His Apostles and teach after he was gone. He gave those Apostles the Gift of the Holy Spirit...... those Apostles chose successors and, by the laying of hands, passed on the Gift of the Spirit. To be in a BIBLICAL position to teach faith and morals you must prove that you posess the SAME Holy Spirit passed on by Christ........ can you?

    My Bishop can........ :)

    I believe the confusion that is leading you to question your faith is caused by the lack of AUTHORITY in non-Catholic faiths........ YOU can not be the sole authority of the Bible, that is NOT Biblical.

    I hope you are getting closer to understanding what I am getting at...... I am looking forward to your next post.

    JESUS, JESUS, JESUS!
    Scott
     
  16. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Notice how kindly Scott told you only Catholics are saved, as they are the only ones with the "Holy Spirit"! Mighty Cephas laid hands on them and started apostolic succession. Gee Whiz! And there are a bunch of people on this thread who thought they were saved and going to be with their God. Ya' gotta convert and become a Catholic! LOL.
     
  17. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Notice how kindly Ronald can sin......
    Lie #1 The the point of this thread is that I believe MUSLIMS can be saved....... pay attention before you chime in.
    Lie #2 Never said or implied that Ronald....... your lies are a fine example of "THE WAY".

    Sheesh...... I am praying for you........
     
  18. johnnys4life

    johnnys4life Pro-life Mommy

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    I am finding it a bit difficult to believe that the Catholic church believes as you do. Perhaps I am wrong. I will try and look into it myself. As far as I have heard, the belief that all gods are the same is more of a unitarian or a new age thing than a Christian one. My husband said that there was a bishop who got kicked out of the Catholic church by the Pope for saying something like that. I hadn't heard of that but I can ask him for the particulars and look it up as well if you want.
    As a Baptist, I was always taught that Jesus is The Way to heaven, and without Him there is no salvation. However for people who lived before Jesus's time, they are judged by faith in God and faithfullness to God, that is credited to them as righteousness. I do not know if Baptists believe that people who have never heard of Christ are damned, but I think it depends upon which church you go to as not all Baptists are unified. (That is a major drawback in Protestant churches). I believe that God is fair, and that He draws people to Himself. Perhaps everyone will have a chance to hear the gospel of Christ at some point, I know from experience that God finds ways of reaching people. The Bible does mention that David of the old testament looked forward to the day of Christ with great joy, and I have little doubt that he, Abraham, and many others are "saved".
    There are several scriptures that I found that do indicate that belief in Christ and the subsequent "abiding in Him" is the only way to salvation. Among them are John 3:16-17, John 5:23, John 5:28, John 6:44, John 8:42, John 14:6, John 17:3, 2 Timothy 2:10, 2 Timothy 3:15, Romans 1:6, Romans 10:9, 2 Corinthians 4:14, and 1 Thess. 5:9. I have read the new testament in it's entirety too just so you know I am not trying to take these out of context.
     
  19. johnnys4life

    johnnys4life Pro-life Mommy

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    In answer to your question, yes I believe I have access to the Holy Spirit too. If I did not I wouldn't care about the truth of the gospel, nor would I be able to say "Jesus is Lord" and truly mean it. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak, or as the Bible says, "you will know them by their fruits".
    Before I committed my life to Christ I did believe in one God. I didn't know who God really was, but I believed, and I was a miserable wreck of a person. The only thing that kept me from ending my life was the belief I had deep in my heart that I was not saved, and fear of God's wrath. But God changed all that through Christ. If I didn't have the Holy Spirit, how could I share in eternal life? This is what the Bible reads: Romans 8:11: "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
    I have also found several scriptures that indicate that believers receive the Holy Spirit, unless these are interpreted incorrectly in my translation of the Bible. Those are: Luke 11:13, John 7:39, 1 Corinthians 12:3, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30, and 1 Thess. 4:8. Given more time I believe I could find others.

    So what about now, do I preach lies, hatred? That is not my intention at all. It is not my place to condemn anyone to hell or decide who is to be saved and who isn't. I am not sure that Muslims are saved, perhaps I will never know until the very end. But I do have a real problem with using the "all gods are one" logic to eliminate the NEED for preaching the gospel of Christ to the ends of the earth, even to Muslims.
    As for belief in one God, that is monotheism, not necessarily Christianity. Buddha, for example, was a man. While he was living, he spoke of peace and kindness, but he did not ask his followers to worship him. He died, and his image was made into golden statues. To worship a man or a statue instead of the living God, how could that be anything but idol worship? It is not the same as Christian worship since Jesus and God the Father are one. Our God, therefore, I cannot imagine that He is not jealous over those who pray to Buddha, even if they do some good in the world.
    The thing that struck me the most was what Jesus said in Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat °: Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
    There isn't exactly only a "few" that believe in God, now is there? But there are a few that know Christ and follow him, and even fewer that believe that He and the Father are one. Besides, doesn't everyone deserve the opportunity to know and to fellowship with Christ? I know it is the most precious thing in my life, how about you?
    Well I have a lot more I could say on this but it is 1:30a.m. and my baby is about to wake up at any time now. Had a lot of fun looking all of this up, actually, thank you for giving me an excuse to.
     
  20. johnnys4life

    johnnys4life Pro-life Mommy

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    P.S. Jesus is Lord!
     
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