Are Makyo Ever Real?

[Sunstone]

Please note: This is the Mysticism DIR.

Are makyo ever real?

I'm using the term "makyo" loosely here. In fact, I'm borrowing the word from Zen and somewhat re-defining it to mean any sort of mystical experience apart from the mystical experience, the experience of oneness or of a One.

Makyo would thus include mystical experiences of prophetic dreams and visions, remote viewing, telekinesis, levitation, and most other paranormal experiences, but would not include any experience of oneness or of a One.

By the way,. by "real" I mean that the experiences reference an actual state of affairs independent of one's own mind. So, for instance, if one had a vision of some woman, then two years later met her, that would be a "real" vision, it would "realized".

Now, online sources about makyo aren't very helpful -- at least not the ones I've seen. So I'm asking the question here: Are makyo ever real, and if so, what makes you think so?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Well, DUH! People reporting having experiences that might, given your modified definition, be real...

But then, I would have to ask (and hoping that I beat @Quintessence to it), "Real in what way?"

 

[Sunstone]

But then, I would have to ask (and hoping that I beat @Quintessence to it), "Real in what way?"

OP edited to answer your question.

By the way, I don't think Quintessence, bless her, is a mystic, and this is a DIR.

 

[sun rise]

somewhat re-defining

"Homey don't play that". Or somewhat redefining some words: Trees don't jumble that".

Seriously, this struck me as click bait so I'm gone from this thread.

 

[Sunstone]

"Homey don't play that". Or somewhat redefining some words: Trees don't jumble that".

Seriously, this struck me as click bait so I'm gone from this thread.

Words are borrowed and redefined all the time. I thought that was basic knowledge, but maybe it's only basic knowledge everywhere but on this Forum. No click-bait intended, but your bad faith in me is noted.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

OP edited to answer your question.

By the way, I don't think Quintessence, bless her, is a mystic, and this is a DIR.

Given your clarification, I would say that yes, such experiences ARE real, as I have experienced some of them, just as I have experienced the oneness sensation.

I do not know if any of those experiences would be detectable empirically using technology, except perhaps as correlates of brain metabolism, brainwaves, etc.

But when I read many other peoples' descriptions of their experiences, I recognize in their experiences many of my own.

 

[Sunstone]

But when I read many other peoples' descriptions of their experiences, I recognize in their experiences many of my own.

Thanks for a helpful post! The bit I quoted was especially so.

 

[crossfire]

Why should the experience of Oneness be excluded from Makyo?

 

[crossfire]

1 Corinthians 12 & 13 describe and explain makyo & kensho quite well, imo.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 12-13 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

 

[Sunstone]

Why should the experience of Oneness be excluded from Makyo?

I exclude it because makyo tend to hinder or prevent an experience of oneness or of the One.

 

[crossfire]

I exclude it because makyo tend to hinder or prevent an experience of oneness or of the One.

Can you experience kensho without makyo? Certainly. However, those who do don't refer to themselves as mystics. Kensho really transcends mysticism, just as nirvana transcends the jhanas.

 

[crossfire]

I normally don't do this, but I'm going to attach a document I created for my Order to help explain. One aspect of makyo is when you get stuck on the third rupa jhana without progressing onto the fourth rupa jhana.

 

[Sunstone]

1 Corinthians 12 & 13 describe and explain makyo & kensho quite well, imo.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 12-13 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Can you experience kensho without makyo? Certainly. However, those who do don't refer to themselves as mystics. Kensho really transcends mysticism, just as nirvana transcends the jhanas.

I normally don't do this, but I'm going to attach a document I created for my Order to help explain. One aspect of makyo is when you get stuck on the third rupa jhana without progressing onto the fourth rupa jhana.

Are makyo ever real?

 

[Orbit]

I think some mayko are subjective self delusions, like telekinesis, levitation etc.

 

[Sunstone]

I think some mayko are subjective self delusions, like telekinesis, levitation etc.

I agree. I'm curious whether you think it's possible that some makyo might be real?

 

[crossfire]

Are makyo ever real?

In this case, you are stripping the meaning of makyo away, so there can be no answer, other than a dumb look.

 

[Kirran]

Hmm, I can't say I see a particular reason why one need think of them as any less real than the rest of the phenomenal world.

What do you think Sunstone?

 

[crossfire]

Since the OP is using a Buddhist term, I will supply an Buddhist reference:
"will bring madness & vexation" literally means "out of your mind."

"There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?

"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]

"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...

"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

"These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."
Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable
​

 

[Sunstone]

Hmm, I can't say I see a particular reason why one need think of them as any less real than the rest of the phenomenal world.

What do you think Sunstone?

I'm not sure what your reasoning is, Kirran. Could you elaborate, please?

 

[Sunstone]

In this case, you are stripping the meaning of makyo away, so there can be no answer, other than a dumb look.

Nonsense.