Are love and fear both good for turning to G-d?

[paarsurrey]

Of source, God is good is a given for those who believed, but this does not address the problem that many if not most believers in the world do not accept other religions and belief systems as good.

For the purposes of this thread every believer, whatever belief one may have, should turn to G-d and ask his help so that the scientists at work may find a vaccine or other remedy to finish this corona-virus.
My understanding is that there is no disbeliever who is 100% certain that G-d does not exist. If they are only 50% certain then they could make use of the other 50% in their own selves and turn to G-d. I see that it is rational and there is no harm in it. Right, please?

Regards
______________
[17:100]اَوَ لَمۡ یَرَوۡا اَنَّ اللّٰہَ الَّذِیۡ خَلَقَ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضَ قَادِرٌ عَلٰۤی اَنۡ یَّخۡلُقَ مِثۡلَہُمۡ وَ جَعَلَ لَہُمۡ اَجَلًا لَّا رَیۡبَ فِیۡہِ ؕ فَاَبَی الظّٰلِمُوۡنَ اِلَّا کُفُوۡرًا ﴿۱۰۰﴾
Have they not seen that Allah Who created the heavens and the earth has the power to create the like of them? And He has appointed for them a term; there is no doubt about it. But the wrongdoers would reject everything but disbelief.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 17: Bani Isra'il

 

[shunyadragon]

For the purposes of this thread every believer, whatever belief one may have, should turn to G-d and ask his help so that the scientists at work may find a vaccine or other remedy to finish this corona-virus.
My understanding is that there is no disbeliever who is 100% certain that G-d does not exist. If they are only 50% certain then they could make use of the other 50% in their own selves and turn to G-d. I see that it is rational and there is no harm in it. Right, please?

Regards
______________
[17:100]اَوَ لَمۡ یَرَوۡا اَنَّ اللّٰہَ الَّذِیۡ خَلَقَ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضَ قَادِرٌ عَلٰۤی اَنۡ یَّخۡلُقَ مِثۡلَہُمۡ وَ جَعَلَ لَہُمۡ اَجَلًا لَّا رَیۡبَ فِیۡہِ ؕ فَاَبَی الظّٰلِمُوۡنَ اِلَّا کُفُوۡرًا ﴿۱۰۰﴾
Have they not seen that Allah Who created the heavens and the earth has the power to create the like of them? And He has appointed for them a term; there is no doubt about it. But the wrongdoers would reject everything but disbelief.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 17: Bani Isra'il

Are believers 50% or 100% certain God exists. It is a belief open to question either way.

 

[paarsurrey]

Are believers 50% or 100% certain God exists. It is a belief open to question either way.

The percentage varies from person to person and from time to time. It is for this that we have to constantly and consistently seek guidance and help from G-d. Right, please?

Regards
_____________
[1:5]اِیَّاکَ نَعۡبُدُ وَ اِیَّاکَ نَسۡتَعِیۡنُ ؕ﴿۵﴾
Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
[1:6]اِہۡدِ نَا الصِّرَاطَ الۡمُسۡتَقِیۡمَ ۙ﴿۶﴾
Guide us in the right path —
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 1: Al-Fatihah

 

[shunyadragon]

The percentage varies from person to person and from time to time. It is for this that we have to constantly and consistently seek guidance and help from G-d. Right, please?

Regards
_____________
[1:5]اِیَّاکَ نَعۡبُدُ وَ اِیَّاکَ نَسۡتَعِیۡنُ ؕ﴿۵﴾
Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
[1:6]اِہۡدِ نَا الصِّرَاطَ الۡمُسۡتَقِیۡمَ ۙ﴿۶﴾
Guide us in the right path —
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 1: Al-Fatihah

The point is the doubts and uncertainty for the existence of God is a given for everyone regardless.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Are love and fear both good for turning to G-d?

People abide the Law in love of their country. Right, please?
People also abide the Law for fear of the fine and punishments prescribed in the law for the crimes. Right, please?
No harm if they do it for love and or fear. Right, please?

Regards

_____________
[19:97]اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا وَ عَمِلُوا الصّٰلِحٰتِ سَیَجۡعَلُ لَہُمُ الرَّحۡمٰنُ وُدًّا ﴿۹۷﴾
Those who believe and do good deeds — the Gracious God will create love in their hearts.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 19: Maryam

[76:11]اِنَّا نَخَافُ مِنۡ رَّبِّنَا یَوۡمًا عَبُوۡسًا قَمۡطَرِیۡرًا ﴿۱۱﴾
‘Verily, we fear from our Lord a frowning and distressful day.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 76: Ad-Dahr

According to the Bab both are unacceptable. Please excuse the length here but it is very beautiful His explanation of how we should worship God.

“WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise. Thus and thus alone should be the worship which befitteth the one True God.

Shouldst thou worship Him because of fear, this would be unseemly in the sanctified Court of His presence, and could not be regarded as an act by thee dedicated to the Oneness of His Being. Or if thy gaze should be on paradise, and thou shouldst worship Him while cherishing such a hope, thou wouldst make God's creation a partner with Him, notwithstanding the fact that paradise is desired by men.

Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.”


“Although when true worship is offered, the worshipper is delivered from the fire, and entereth the paradise of God's good-pleasure, yet such should not be the motive of his act.”


“The most acceptable prayer is the one offered with the utmost spirituality and radiance; its prolongation hath not been and is not beloved by God. The more detached and the purer the prayer, the more acceptable is it in the presence of God. VII, 19”


The Báb

 

[paarsurrey]

If fear is needed to try and make you love then it is a toxic and dangerous relationship.

In some relationships love and fear exist together, like a mother loves her children but fear lest some harm come to them cares them the most. Right, please?

Regards

 

[John53]

In some relationships love and fear exist together, like a mother loves her children but fear lest some harm come to them cares them the most. Right, please?

Regards

You're simply playing with the English language. Unless you're claiming that when you say you fear God you mean that you have concern for his welfare then the answer to your question is no it's not right.

 

[Milton Platt]

Are love and fear both good for turning to G-d?

People abide the Law in love of their country. Right, please?
People also abide the Law for fear of the fine and punishments prescribed in the law for the crimes. Right, please?
No harm if they do it for love and or fear. Right, please?

Regards

_____________
[19:97]اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا وَ عَمِلُوا الصّٰلِحٰتِ سَیَجۡعَلُ لَہُمُ الرَّحۡمٰنُ وُدًّا ﴿۹۷﴾
Those who believe and do good deeds — the Gracious God will create love in their hearts.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 19: Maryam

[76:11]اِنَّا نَخَافُ مِنۡ رَّبِّنَا یَوۡمًا عَبُوۡسًا قَمۡطَرِیۡرًا ﴿۱۱﴾
‘Verily, we fear from our Lord a frowning and distressful day.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 76: Ad-Dahr

Apparently, ignorance of science is also useful for that purpose

 

[paarsurrey]

If your not afraid you would have power over suffering as well.

Not necessarily, please.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

If your not afraid you would have power over suffering as well.

Not necessarily, please.
Regards

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Are love and fear both good for turning to G-d?

People abide the Law in love of their country. Right, please?
People also abide the Law for fear of the fine and punishments prescribed in the law for the crimes. Right, please?
No harm if they do it for love and or fear. Right, please?

Regards

_____________
[19:97]اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا وَ عَمِلُوا الصّٰلِحٰتِ سَیَجۡعَلُ لَہُمُ الرَّحۡمٰنُ وُدًّا ﴿۹۷﴾
Those who believe and do good deeds — the Gracious God will create love in their hearts.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 19: Maryam

[76:11]اِنَّا نَخَافُ مِنۡ رَّبِّنَا یَوۡمًا عَبُوۡسًا قَمۡطَرِیۡرًا ﴿۱۱﴾
‘Verily, we fear from our Lord a frowning and distressful day.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 76: Ad-Dahr

You seem to be equating the Law with God..

 

[paarsurrey]

You seem to be equating the Law with God..

One could express one's thoughts.
Regards

 

[MonkeyFire]

Not necessarily, please.
Regards

Suffering is not a real thing, when you believe this all you have to do is be passive.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

One could express one's thoughts.
Regards

Well, I thought I just did. But in any case, I'm not sure loving God at any rate is really the same as abiding by the Law for love of country. There is surely more to loving God than abiding by the Law, no?

 

[paarsurrey]

Well, I thought I just did. But in any case, I'm not sure loving God at any rate is really the same as abiding by the Law for love of country. There is surely more to loving God than abiding by the Law, no?

I did not make them equal.
Regards

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I did not make them equal.
Regards

So you accept that there is more to loving God than abiding by the Law?

 

[Muffled]

OK! This is what you believe, but the Jew, Muslim, and Hindu believe God is good, and this why they believe as they do.

I believe they believe God is good until He is Jesus and then they won't have much to do with Him. Or as God tells Joan in the TV series Joan of Arcadia: "I am used to being ignored."

 

[Muffled]

Muffled said: ↑
I believe God is good which is why I could accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior.


G-d is good, it is for this that we see goodness in the world. It is we human being who do make mistakes and do wrong to ourselves and other human beings. Right, please?

Regards
___________
[9:70]اَلَمۡ یَاۡتِہِمۡ نَبَاُ الَّذِیۡنَ مِنۡ قَبۡلِہِمۡ قَوۡمِ نُوۡحٍ وَّ عَادٍ وَّ ثَمُوۡدَ ۬ۙ وَ قَوۡمِ اِبۡرٰہِیۡمَ وَ اَصۡحٰبِ مَدۡیَنَ وَ الۡمُؤۡتَفِکٰتِ ؕ اَتَتۡہُمۡ رُسُلُہُمۡ بِالۡبَیِّنٰتِ ۚ فَمَا کَانَ اللّٰہُ لِیَظۡلِمَہُمۡ وَ لٰکِنۡ کَانُوۡۤا اَنۡفُسَہُمۡ یَظۡلِمُوۡنَ ﴿۷۰﴾
Has not the story reached them of those before them — the people of Noah, ‘Ad, and Thamud, and the people of Abraham, and the dwellers of Midian, and the cities which were overthrown? Their Messengers came to them with clear Signs. So Allah would not wrong them, but they wronged themselves.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 9: At-Taubah

I believe that tendency to not do good is what makes it necessary to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior.

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe they believe God is good until He is Jesus and then they won't have much to do with Him. Or as God tells Joan in the TV series Joan of Arcadia: "I am used to being ignored."

Yes this is your perspective, but pretty much universal that the believers of other ancient religions believe they are ignored by you and other religions.

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe that tendency to not do good is what makes it necessary to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior.

This neglects the actual evidence that all humans remain fallible regardless of what we believe, doing both good and evil. The universal tendency is for humans to be fallible humans.

The fallacy of the 'True Scotsman.'