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Are Humans Animals

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
That was all very nice, but we are still at the end of the day animals, dogs can communicate together as all other animals do, we humans think they are below us, but there is no such things as being below or higher than each other, we are all animals and we are all one collectively.

Only in the sense that the chimpanzee is 'all one collectively' with a sea slug, psychoslice. Now don't get me wrong here: I think all life has value and deserves respect. One should not go about pouring gasoline down an ant hill and setting fire to it just for kicks and giggles.

However, the incontravertable FACT is that humans have the ability to wipe out almost any other species of living critter off of the planet (perhaps not cockroaches...but pretty much everything else)...AND we have the ability to both understand that we can, AND to appreciate the consequences AND to do something about, oh....not doing that.

We can alter climates. Make fertile farmland out of deserts, and deserts out of farmland. We can stop rivers and make canyons into lakes. We can drain swamps and destroy inland seas...and we have. No other animal can conceive of that, though there are animals that can actually DO that....at least some of that. We are the only animals who can see ahead to consequences....

And we really are the only animals who can truly talk to one another. Dogs do not speak to one another. They can SIGNAL one another, but that's not language. Whales sing...but that's not communication the way we do it.

Human ability to communicate and 'do' things is so far above that of any other animal on the planet that if we are like them, it is only in that we are born, we live, breathe, eat, mate and die. WE can decide whether any of the other animals are born, live (or how or where), breath, eat, mate and die. We have the power to do that. Whether one believes that this ability is given to us by Deity....or we just somehow stumbled into it through evolutionary adaptation, the result is the same; BECAUSE WE CAN, we are now responsible, and we ARE different.

Those who don't take that responsibility, and acknowledge the difference, are abandoning their responsibility TO all those other animals.

There seems to be a following of 'eagle watchers' online. I'm one of 'em....we have put cameras on bald eagle nests in several places in the USA. Everybody is very careful simply to watch and see the eagles mate, lay eggs, hatch the babies and raise them until they fledge. The idea is that we just...observe and don't interfere.

Except of course, we do. Last summer it was seen that one of the nests was unstable, and likely to collapse this season...so after the eaglets fledged and the family left, the forest service repaired the nest so that it would not only remain stable this year, but for many years to come.

That same year one of the nestlings in another nest suffered a misfortune; it fell out of the nest. Now in the 'wild,' that nestling would have been toast; dead within a day or two, but the watchers went in, rescued it, took it to a rescue sanctuary, fixed its injuries and released it to the wild at about the same time its nest mate fledged.

Could a dog do that? A Chimpanzee? A whale? ANY other animal on the planet?

No?

Well, there you go. WE CAN, and therefore it is our responsibility to deal with that power responsibly, whether any of us like that or not. We are NOT just part of the 'great chain of life,' because our brains have put us pretty much in charge of it.

Sure, I'd like to go dancing sky clad and feeling the togetherness with the universe, but we...just ain't one of 'em any more. We are RESPONSIBLE for them BECAUSE we can alter their lives so drastically.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Only in the sense that the chimpanzee is 'all one collectively' with a sea slug, psychoslice. Now don't get me wrong here: I think all life has value and deserves respect. One should not go about pouring gasoline down an ant hill and setting fire to it just for kicks and giggles.

However, the incontravertable FACT is that humans have the ability to wipe out almost any other species of living critter off of the planet (perhaps not cockroaches...but pretty much everything else)...AND we have the ability to both understand that we can, AND to appreciate the consequences AND to do something about, oh....not doing that.

We can alter climates. Make fertile farmland out of deserts, and deserts out of farmland. We can stop rivers and make canyons into lakes. We can drain swamps and destroy inland seas...and we have. No other animal can conceive of that, though there are animals that can actually DO that....at least some of that. We are the only animals who can see ahead to consequences....

And we really are the only animals who can truly talk to one another. Dogs do not speak to one another. They can SIGNAL one another, but that's not language. Whales sing...but that's not communication the way we do it.

Human ability to communicate and 'do' things is so far above that of any other animal on the planet that if we are like them, it is only in that we are born, we live, breathe, eat, mate and die. WE can decide whether any of the other animals are born, live (or how or where), breath, eat, mate and die. We have the power to do that. Whether one believes that this ability is given to us by Deity....or we just somehow stumbled into it through evolutionary adaptation, the result is the same; BECAUSE WE CAN, we are now responsible, and we ARE different.

Those who don't take that responsibility, and acknowledge the difference, are abandoning their responsibility TO all those other animals.

There seems to be a following of 'eagle watchers' online. I'm one of 'em....we have put cameras on bald eagle nests in several places in the USA. Everybody is very careful simply to watch and see the eagles mate, lay eggs, hatch the babies and raise them until they fledge. The idea is that we just...observe and don't interfere.

Except of course, we do. Last summer it was seen that one of the nests was unstable, and likely to collapse this season...so after the eaglets fledged and the family left, the forest service repaired the nest so that it would not only remain stable this year, but for many years to come.

That same year one of the nestlings in another nest suffered a misfortune; it fell out of the nest. Now in the 'wild,' that nestling would have been toast; dead within a day or two, but the watchers went in, rescued it, took it to a rescue sanctuary, fixed its injuries and released it to the wild at about the same time its nest mate fledged.

Could a dog do that? A Chimpanzee? A whale? ANY other animal on the planet?

No?

Well, there you go. WE CAN, and therefore it is our responsibility to deal with that power responsibly, whether any of us like that or not. We are NOT just part of the 'great chain of life,' because our brains have put us pretty much in charge of it.

Sure, I'd like to go dancing sky clad and feeling the togetherness with the universe, but we...just ain't one of 'em any more. We are RESPONSIBLE for them BECAUSE we can alter their lives so drastically.
No we are not responsible, its nature, when an eaglet falls out of the nest that is nature, when a baby is born dead, that is also nature, of course its good that there are humans who help nature, but without us nature would still survive, probably even better. I think you have your mind made up because of scripture, I don't follow scripture, I see through it, and what I have shared is what I see with my own observation not influenced by any scripture or hearsay.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
I think you have your mind made up because of scripture, I don't follow scripture, I see through it, and what I have shared is what I see with my own observation not influenced by any scripture or hearsay.
I, as well, have no scripture. Yet I agree completely with what was said.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Evolution extends the biblical view that all have mans share an ancestor and extend it to animals. All animals also have a common ancestor. Chimps share a closer ancestor than most other animals, the DNA doesn't lie.

All are creation of God regardless of how you want to categorize them, the cat is different
than the monkey and different than the goat, being made of the same matter doesn't mean
that they were created by the unconscious and the inanimate stones of the nature.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
All are creation of God regardless of how you want to categorize them, the cat is different
than the monkey and different than the goat, being made of the same matter doesn't mean
that they were created by the unconscious and the inanimate stones of the nature.
What is God ?.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
However, the incontravertable FACT is that humans have the ability to wipe out almost any other species of living critter off of the planet (perhaps not cockroaches ..)
Not true. You yourself mention cockroaches. Similarly, there are many others.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
No we are not responsible, its nature, when an eaglet falls out of the nest that is nature, when a baby is born dead, that is also nature, of course its good that there are humans who help nature, but without us nature would still survive, probably even better. I think you have your mind made up because of scripture, I don't follow scripture, I see through it, and what I have shared is what I see with my own observation not influenced by any scripture or hearsay.

....and would you, if you walked by a baby eagle who just fell out of a nest, allow it to simply die there because 'that's nature?" No OTHER animal on the planet can rescue it, but you can.

YOU can take this bird to someone who can nurture it, fix its wounds and allow it eventually to fly free. Can any other animal on the planet do that? No?

But you can.

Sometimes babies are born dead, or with severe congenital defects. EVERY other animal on the planet has to look at this and simply accept it. But we don't. Because we don't, most babies are born alive and we work very hard to fix those congenital defects, when we can....and nurture and care for those whose disabilities we cannot fix. No other animal on the planet can, or will, do that.

It IS true that the bible says that God put us in charge of everything. I believe that...but it doesn't matter what I believe about that. The fact is, we ARE in charge, simply and only because we have the power to be in charge. We have been in charge since our ancestors 'tamed' fire and made flint knife blades and arrowheads.

I don't care how much you may want to crawl back into the collective 'be-ness' of everything, it's not something any of us can simply not be.

Consider; you COULD save that baby bird, so your decision to 'leave it to nature' IS you being in charge of its life. The only way you aren't 'the boss' is if you physically cannot alter things.

but you can. I can. Humans can.
So we need to put our big boy and girl pants on and DEAL with it.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Yes and that is how it should be, its your truth.
I wouldn't exactly word it like that; it's not "my truth", it's an observable truth. There is no animal on earth that even closely resembles us in intelligence and invention. No other being in this solar system that can act as a curator and guardian like we can.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
....and would you, if you walked by a baby eagle who just fell out of a nest, allow it to simply die there because 'that's nature?" No OTHER animal on the planet can rescue it, but you can.

YOU can take this bird to someone who can nurture it, fix its wounds and allow it eventually to fly free. Can any other animal on the planet do that? No?

But you can.

Sometimes babies are born dead, or with severe congenital defects. EVERY other animal on the planet has to look at this and simply accept it. But we don't. Because we don't, most babies are born alive and we work very hard to fix those congenital defects, when we can....and nurture and care for those whose disabilities we cannot fix. No other animal on the planet can, or will, do that.

It IS true that the bible says that God put us in charge of everything. I believe that...but it doesn't matter what I believe about that. The fact is, we ARE in charge, simply and only because we have the power to be in charge. We have been in charge since our ancestors 'tamed' fire and made flint knife blades and arrowheads.

I don't care how much you may want to crawl back into the collective 'be-ness' of everything, it's not something any of us can simply not be.

Consider; you COULD save that baby bird, so your decision to 'leave it to nature' IS you being in charge of its life. The only way you aren't 'the boss' is if you physically cannot alter things.

but you can. I can. Humans can.
So we need to put our big boy and girl pants on and DEAL with it.
Na, sorry I cannot continue this discussion, you are simple using your emotions to over drive that which is, and that is nature, but thank you for your time.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I wouldn't exactly word it like that; it's not "my truth", it's an observable truth. There is no animal on earth that even closely resembles us in intelligence and invention. No other being in this solar system that can act as a curator and guardian like we can.
Ha, how do you know that ?.
 
OMG! Here, take a look at the following.

NEW%20polyphylic%20grouping_zpsfozylfq2.png

So far as we know the "the last common ancestor of old world monkeys and apes [,which] lived about 25 million years ago" were primates like Rukwapithecus fleaglei and Nsungwepithecus gunnelli, neither of which are called or even considered to be monkeys or apes, but simply "primates." Technically, those primates leading to Old World monkeys and apes are classified as parvorder Catarrhini, and those primates leading to the New World monkeys are classified as parvorder Platyrrhini. Those primates leading to both Catarrhini. and Platyrrhini are classified as infraorder Simiiformes. See below.

Order Primates
Source: Wikipedia................†: extinct


.
Nice copypasta. That chart is an example of how nested heirarchies work.

Next time you should probably read your source material to make sure it supports the case you are trying to make. ;)
 
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