Are Homosexuals going to Hell?

[LuisDantas]

First you must understand the idea of hell. There are two hells. The first one is the grave where everyone is going. The second is the coming fire that will destroy all who refuse to obey God's laws. Everyone will have a chance to understand if he is breaking God's laws and to change if he is . Those who refuse to change will face punishment by being destroyed in the fire.

Uh... I take it that you believe in that?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No please- debate away. Just saying that you seem to adding in a lot of personal baggage you may be carrying about your own sexuality and relationship with Christianity. If you want to debate either of those, I suggest starting an additional thread or taking it to the Christianity DIR.

If you're going through the trouble of actually looking back through other unrelated threads to decide if you're being fair or not in this one, then I would suggest you're taking discussion far too personally to be healthy.

Other than answering your question and figuring how you are referring to any religion in your OP when hell isn't in many religions go together, I'm at a lost over what else to say. I mean, why ask the question? If god only condemns then what we say on this thread won't change anything.

Also, I said I can't go to a Christian DIR. I'm not Christian. I have no reason to debate christianity and homosexuality like I used to. It literally makes me sick to my stomach. I do have personal PRIDE in my sexuality, so if I see something off, I will correct it regardless. It's not a debate. If I misread something, just clarify it.

If you're talking about religions in general, and asking if all homosexuals go to hell, since you said only god condemns (already making it specific to god-religions), and using hell, which is specific to most abrahamic faiths, why would half the posters not think you're gearing towards christianity or a similar religion?

Maybe, if you still can, change your OP title or relate the two together?

I don't know.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You do many things that are considered "haram" by Islam, so that means we can accuse you of defying God, right? Do you these things despite god telling you in the Koran that he forbids them, so you too refuse to "call a sin a sin".

In case my point was lost on you, there are thousands of religions, each with it's own concept of what is and isn't a "sin". If you don't belong to a specific religion, then that's religion's idea of "sin" would obviously be meaningless to you, now wouldn't it?

I never understand arguments that seem to be 'my religion versus atheism'. Because it's almost always actually 'my religion versus all other religions, versus atheism'.

Not talking about all theists, by any means. Not even close. But arguments against sin, or arguments that 'God has told you, so don't blame him'...they really have nothing to do with atheism, in particular.

 

[Father Heathen]

I never understand arguments that seem to be 'my religion versus atheism'. Because it's almost always actually 'my religion versus all other religions, versus atheism'.

Not talking about all theists, by any means. Not even close. But arguments against sin, or arguments that 'God has told you, do don't blame him'...they really have nothing to do with atheism, in particular.

The problem is that some people don't seem to be able to differentiate between the concept of god and how people perceive and portray god, or the things they attribute to god.

By their logic, if you accept that Abraham Lincoln was an actual historical figure, then you must also accept that "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter" was an accurate account.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The problem is that some people don't seem to be able to differentiate between the concept of god and how people perceive and portray god, or the things they attribute to god.

By their logic, if you accept that Abraham Lincoln was an actual historical figure, then you must also accept that "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter" was an accurate account.

To be fair, there is a current lack of vampires that this would help explain...

 

[Father Heathen]

To be fair, there is a current lack of vampires that this would help explain...

Checkmate, Alincolnists.

 

[sayak83]

As many homosexual men and women, as well as those who are transsexual, bisexual, have relations with animals and plants, it is entirely possible, even likely that many of them maintain a personal belief in God. They may even form a devout connection to their divine gods, though it may not necessarily involve the same acceptance or repugnance you feel at learning of such lifestyles.

How one conducts himself/herself in life would therefore follow some kind of path to salvation, whether it be an Abrahamic God, Hindu pantheon, Buddhist spirit, etc. It would follow for those believers who are not living gods, that the rules were designed by others and we can not rewrite them to suit our own subject experience of judgment of ourselves. Being good and chaste and procreating as we are told the god(s) of our faith want can and will clash against what many consider to be impure, disgusting, abominable and a sin against nature. While we hope and expect we have kind and merciless deities to at least partially absolve us when mental derangement is a mitigating factor, what is the effect upon our immortal souls and/or spiritual afterlife when we consciously make deviant choices that are offensive to the faiths?

He's with the angels now?

Please know that what one religion may consider foul and sin-worthy can be quite different than what another may consider tolerable. I am not looking for any rants explaining why one religion's worldview is superior to all others, or how unreasonable or immoral you may personally consider the habits of heathens to be. It's always complicated. Myself, I believe this is a question left up to God to judge who shall be rewarded with bliss and who is damned. To pass judgment on others for what happens in the afterlife, is to speak for God, and is a sin. But we can of course keep asking questions and try to live well, free from chaos.

Is it a sin to deny the sexual act that perpetuates the species, and instead live a life where sexual hedonism is openly embraced for pure enjoyment? And to what extent are the machinations of demons (if you believe in their influence) to be blamed or mitigated against?

No. Homosexuals are not going to hell because of their homosexuality.
The demons who might be posing as God's in various religions and convincing people otherwise will be going there instead.

 

[Ricktheheretic]

As many homosexual men and women, as well as those who are transsexual, bisexual, have relations with animals and plants, it is entirely possible, even likely that many of them maintain a personal belief in God. They may even form a devout connection to their divine gods, though it may not necessarily involve the same acceptance or repugnance you feel at learning of such lifestyles.

How one conducts himself/herself in life would therefore follow some kind of path to salvation, whether it be an Abrahamic God, Hindu pantheon, Buddhist spirit, etc. It would follow for those believers who are not living gods, that the rules were designed by others and we can not rewrite them to suit our own subject experience of judgment of ourselves. Being good and chaste and procreating as we are told the god(s) of our faith want can and will clash against what many consider to be impure, disgusting, abominable and a sin against nature. While we hope and expect we have kind and merciless deities to at least partially absolve us when mental derangement is a mitigating factor, what is the effect upon our immortal souls and/or spiritual afterlife when we consciously make deviant choices that are offensive to the faiths?

He's with the angels now?

Please know that what one religion may consider foul and sin-worthy can be quite different than what another may consider tolerable. I am not looking for any rants explaining why one religion's worldview is superior to all others, or how unreasonable or immoral you may personally consider the habits of heathens to be. It's always complicated. Myself, I believe this is a question left up to God to judge who shall be rewarded with bliss and who is damned. To pass judgment on others for what happens in the afterlife, is to speak for God, and is a sin. But we can of course keep asking questions and try to live well, free from chaos.

Is it a sin to deny the sexual act that perpetuates the species, and instead live a life where sexual hedonism is openly embraced for pure enjoyment? And to what extent are the machinations of demons (if you believe in their influence) to be blamed or mitigated against?

"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error." Romans 1:18-27 RSV

but it also says,

"12 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned— 13 sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come." Romans 5:12-14

People who commit sins without knowing that those things are sins are not held accountable by God. What I think Romans 1:18-23 says is that man has always been smart enough to know that God couldn't be something like a mortal man or animal, if other religions taught the worship of men or animals people had to know they were wrong. When pagans experienced a religion that worshiped a transcendent creator it had to make sense to them that God couldn't be the same as his creation, but they denied a transcendent God and kept worshiping the gods that let them do what they wanted including having sex with male and female shrine prostitutes. But could they be held accountable for what they did before they knew about the real God? Can people in Africa who still worship snakes and different animals be judged for their "sins?" I don't think the Bible casts judgement on too many homosexuals. Maybe its like Jean Calvin believed and some people don't become Christians because they weren't predestined to salvation, but I don't think they are judged for personal sins. But they still inherit the penalty of Adam's sin - death, separation from God.

BTW I am agnostic, I think its better to question than to believe on just faith. Still, I like to give my view of the Bible.

 

[Ricktheheretic]

As many homosexual men and women, as well as those who are transsexual, bisexual, have relations with animals and plants, it is entirely possible, even likely that many of them maintain a personal belief in God. They may even form a devout connection to their divine gods, though it may not necessarily involve the same acceptance or repugnance you feel at learning of such lifestyles.

How one conducts himself/herself in life would therefore follow some kind of path to salvation, whether it be an Abrahamic God, Hindu pantheon, Buddhist spirit, etc. It would follow for those believers who are not living gods, that the rules were designed by others and we can not rewrite them to suit our own subject experience of judgment of ourselves. Being good and chaste and procreating as we are told the god(s) of our faith want can and will clash against what many consider to be impure, disgusting, abominable and a sin against nature. While we hope and expect we have kind and merciless deities to at least partially absolve us when mental derangement is a mitigating factor, what is the effect upon our immortal souls and/or spiritual afterlife when we consciously make deviant choices that are offensive to the faiths?

He's with the angels now?

Please know that what one religion may consider foul and sin-worthy can be quite different than what another may consider tolerable. I am not looking for any rants explaining why one religion's worldview is superior to all others, or how unreasonable or immoral you may personally consider the habits of heathens to be. It's always complicated. Myself, I believe this is a question left up to God to judge who shall be rewarded with bliss and who is damned. To pass judgment on others for what happens in the afterlife, is to speak for God, and is a sin. But we can of course keep asking questions and try to live well, free from chaos.

Is it a sin to deny the sexual act that perpetuates the species, and instead live a life where sexual hedonism is openly embraced for pure enjoyment? And to what extent are the machinations of demons (if you believe in their influence) to be blamed or mitigated against?

"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error." Romans 1:18-27 RSV

but it also says,

"12 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned— 13 sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come." Romans 5:12-14

People who commit sins without knowing that those things are sins are not held accountable by God. What I think Romans 1:18-23 says is that man has always been smart enough to know that God couldn't be something like a mortal man or animal, if other religions taught the worship of men or animals people had to know they were wrong. When pagans experienced a religion that worshiped a transcendent creator it had to make sense to them that God couldn't be the same as his creation, but they denied a transcendent God and kept worshiping the gods that let them do what they wanted including having sex with male and female shrine prostitutes. But could they be held accountable for what they did before they knew about the real God? Can people in Africa who still worship snakes and different animals be judged for their "sins?" I don't think the Bible casts judgement on too many homosexuals. Maybe its like Jean Calvin believed and some people don't become Christians because they weren't predestined to salvation, but I don't think they are judged for personal sins. But they still inherit the penalty of Adam's sin - death, separation from God.

BTW I am agnostic, I think its better to question than to believe on just faith. Still, I like to give my view of the Bible.

"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error." Romans 1:18-27 RSV

but it also says,

"12 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned— 13 sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come." Romans 5:12-14

People who commit sins without knowing that those things are sins are not held accountable by God. What I think Romans 1:18-23 says is that man has always been smart enough to know that God couldn't be something like a mortal man or animal, if other religions taught the worship of men or animals people had to know they were wrong. When pagans experienced a religion that worshiped a transcendent creator it had to make sense to them that God couldn't be the same as his creation, but they denied a transcendent God and kept worshiping the gods that let them do what they wanted including having sex with male and female shrine prostitutes. But could they be held accountable for what they did before they knew about the real God? Can people in Africa who still worship snakes and different animals be judged for their "sins?" I don't think the Bible casts judgement on too many homosexuals. Maybe its like Jean Calvin believed and some people don't become Christians because they weren't predestined to salvation, but I don't think they are judged for personal sins. But they still inherit the penalty of Adam's sin - death, separation from God.

BTW I am agnostic, I think its better to question than to believe on just faith. Still, I like to give my view of the Bible.

I would like to say that some churches teach that there will be a time before the final judgement when those who didn't reject Christ after personally knowing him (like Judas) will get a chance to know Christ and be saved. This is the "second resurrection" mentioned in Revelation when everyone will have a chance to be written in the book of life. Jehovah’s Witnesses—Official Website: jw.org United Church of God

 

[Grandliseur]

. . .While we hope and expect we have kind and merciless deities to at least partially absolve us when mental derangement is a mitigating factor, what is the effect upon our immortal souls and/or spiritual afterlife when we consciously make deviant choices that are offensive to the faiths? . . .

First, death is the destruction of the entire being. Nothing remains except the spirit, data, that is returned to God for the sake of his needs and what is needed if a resurrection is going to happen. The spirit that returns to God is not a live entity. (scripture may be supplied) If the entire being is destroyed on dying, there is also a clear impossibility of some kind of hell in which there is torment. Hell in some translations simply means death by having been translated from Sheol, Hades, and Gehenna. There is a difference in kind by judgment of these types.

God gave us Christ to bring mercy into his human law; this means that though a sinner, man may be forgiven, but there are guidelines for us to know.

All sin:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.​

Practice of unrepentant serious sin

1 John 3:
4 Every one that practises sin practises also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 And ye know that *he* has been manifested that he might take away our sins; and in him sin is not. 6 Whoever abides in him, does not sin: whoever sins, has not seen him or known him. 7 Children, let no man lead you astray; he that practises righteousness is righteous, even as *he* is righteous. 8 He that practises sin is of the devil; for from the beginning the devil sins. To this end the Son of God has been manifested, that he might undo the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been begotten of God does not practise sin, because his seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God.​

Simple
As may be understood, things are simple: we are all sinners, cannot avoid sinning. Christians who sin seriously shall be punished. Those who practice willful sin deliberately while knowing it is a serious sin - become damned.

If a person learns that what s/he is doing is a serious sin though the person may have lived this way for some time, years, - if that person turns away from this life and begin to live holy lives in Christ, forgiveness is extended. However, this does not mean that the person automatically gets out of prison, or rid of HIV, and other STDs. The person will have to live with the problems incurred until death or the kingdom comes, whichever is first.

 

[Kemosloby]

You do many things that are considered "haram" by Islam, so that means we can accuse you of defying God, right? You do these things despite god telling you in the Koran that he forbids them, so you too refuse to "call a sin a sin".

In case my point was lost on you, there are thousands of religions, each with it's own concept of what is and isn't a "sin". If you don't belong to a specific religion, then that's religion's idea of "sin" would obviously be meaningless to you, now wouldn't it?

Like what? Islam is similar to Judaism and Christiianity in calling a sin a sin. They merely fall short of calling the savior the savior.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Look, these practices exist:

What It’s Like to Date a Horse
Denmark's Bestiality Problem: It's Legal
Zoophilia and the law - Wikipedia
Dendrophilia (paraphilia) - Wikipedia

I didn't invent such things. All I said was that presumably, some large portion of such groups believe in a higher power. Whether or not they think they're doing anything "wrong" or deviant, do you think they're going to their (or your own) version of Hell?

I don't believe I said anything about "Christian"...

Ever use KY Jelly or the like? If so, then you too have rubbed plant juju all over your special stuffs. "Hydroxyethyl cellulose". So... how does God feel about that? And wait a sec here... is God really keeping close tabs on what we all stick around or into our private parts? And if so... does that make him a kind of pervert? I mean... aren't those sorts of things supposed to remain private? As far as my own opinion... I've never had any sort of interaction with God, so if I ever catch him peeping on me I'm going to have to call out "stranger danger!"

 

[JJ50]

Only sick bigots think there is something wrong with being gay. Jesus could have been gay as he had a disciple whom he loved, presumably a guy.

 

[Grumpuss]

Ever use KY Jelly or the like? If so, then you too have rubbed plant juju all over your special stuffs. "Hydroxyethyl cellulose". So... how does God feel about that? And wait a sec here... is God really keeping close tabs on what we all stick around or into our private parts? And if so... does that make him a kind of pervert? I mean... aren't those sorts of things supposed to remain private? As far as my own opinion... I've never had any sort of interaction with God, so if I ever catch him peeping on me I'm going to have to call out "stranger danger!"

I don't mind saying that several of those things are disgusting. Stay away from my dog! (And my sycamore!)

Whether or not your god(s) judge you harshly on top of that and damn you to hell would seem to be a different story.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I don't mind saying that several of those things are disgusting. Stay away from my dog! (And my sycamore!)

Whether or not your god(s) judge you harshly on top of that and damn you to hell would seem to be a different story.

You didn't answer any of my questions. Maybe I should try asking one thing at a time to get maximum mileage out of your attention span:

1. Does spying on people's sexual endeavors make God a pervert?

 

[Grumpuss]

You didn't answer any of my questions. Maybe I should try asking one thing at a time to get maximum mileage out of your attention span:

1. Does spying on people's sexual endeavors make God a pervert?

I don't know. Does lowering others' gods of deeply held belief to the level of man's perversion give you some sort of a sick thrill?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I don't know. Does lowering others' gods of deeply held belief to the level of man's perversion give you some sort of a sick thrill?

No. I am just curious how far you'd let any sort of "authority" keep tabs on your sex life. Contemplating why God gets a pass, to your mind, on anything and everything could be a revealing exercise. Don't knock it until you try it.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't know. Does lowering others' gods of deeply held belief to the level of man's perversion give you some sort of a sick thrill?

It can't be sick if it is emulating God's example, now can it?

 

[Father Heathen]

Like what? Islam is similar to Judaism and Christiianity in calling a sin a sin.

But there are some discrepancies regarding what each consider a "sin". Also, there are many other religions outside the three abrahamic ones. For example, Hinduism considers eating beef a "sin". Do you agree? If not, then that means that you too refuse to "call a sin a sin", right?

They merely fall short of calling the savior the savior.

And Christianity falls short of calling Mohammad the prophet and Buddha the enlightened one. Your point?

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't know. Does lowering others' gods of deeply held belief to the level of man's perversion give you some sort of a sick thrill?

Apparently, some people's idea of "god" was borne of man's perversion. For example, the notion that god would actually torture someone for eternity for petty, trivial, benign reasons just to gratify his own ego.