Are Homosexuals going to Hell?

[Kemosloby]

Or perhaps people simply aren't convinced that the self-appointed and self-serving middlemen who presume to speak on god's behalf are actually valid or legitimate. You can't really fault people for using their ability to reason to conclude that goofy garbage is goofy garbage.

Here we have candidate number 1 who refuses to call a sin a sin..

 

[Jainarayan]

Yes. But you can appreciate that other people do...?

I can, as long as they realize other people don't. Besides, that was some Hindu to Hindu humor.

 

[columbus]

Here we have candidate number 1 who refuses to call a sin a sin..

And here we have a prime candidate for "the self-appointed and self-serving middlemen who presume to speak on god's behalf".
Tom

 

[Mindmaster]

**deleted**

Yes, yes, homosexuals are going to hell. You all are going to hell, at least if you ask any of the religions that believe in one. However, it amazes me that such religions find homosexuality abhorrent but are perfectly fine cultivating a pederasty culture in their midst. Such irony... Being gay has been OK so long as you are part of the clergy, and as long as your partner is below the age of consent. If said church authorities have a problem with being gay, maybe they should stop being gay or shut up.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

C'mon, Frankie...you don't really think that was 'random' do ya??

No, not really.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No. Being LBGT is a fine and sacred thing in my religion. Many of the Gods are LGBT, Themselves.

 

[Grumpuss]

@Grumpuss

Do you have evidence that homosexuality as a sexual orientation is a sin?

I didn't say a word about this. I just stated that established religions have stated this in the past.

We know that the behavior is condemned. That's not the issue. Heterosexuals had a lot worse sex crimes in the bible than being with someone of their own gender.

Not what was talked about in the OP. Yes, there are many, many behaviors religions deem worthy of damnation. You could have several similar threads about the application of killing and still getting into Heaven.

We know two people of the same gender can't marry according to the bible. It doesn't refer to sexual orientation; so, heterosexuals are included in this rule too.

Where does the bible talk about the LGBTQ people specifically?

Not a thread about the Bible. This is in General Religious Debates for a reason. Take it on over to the Christian DIRs and I'm sure there some over there that would love to debate that with you.

The only way, according to some christianity, homosexuals will go to hell is if they haven't accept jesus as their lord and savior or taken the sacraments of christ. Their sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.

Not about Christianity, specifically, though I am aware of the type of Christians you are referring to. Some sects believe that confession, forgiveness and prayer are all that's necessary for salvation. It wasn't that long ago that nearly every sect believed that certain sins were irredeemable damnation: killing a priest or communing with the Devil or something.

Yours.

Pardon me if I am misremembering. I thought you are a Christian who has referred to Scripture as an authority. That's why I asked you.

You are misremembering. Scripture is only important to me. I don't wield it like a club to bash others over the head. But hey- thanks anyway.

Not as much as you may think. Lots of gay people have kids. He did something rather common. He tried to "straighten" himself out by getting married and having kids. He was strongly encouraged to do that by his Christian family.
It just didn't work out.
But he was a good dad and loves being a grandpa. He's good at it.

I don't doubt he's a good person, if you say so. But either he was not always gay, or using some weird definition of the word, since typically gay people don't couple so readily or repeatedly that they have 4 kids. But perhaps I don't know enough; maybe it was artificial insemination or he and his wife hit the lottery and had quadruplets the only time they coupled.

Yes as a matter of fact it does.
If God has an opinion on the subject, I've never heard it. It's always always what someone thinks, even when they attribute their opinion to God. Usually it's an indirect attribution, quoting Scripture.
Hence my question. How does he fit into your Scriptural morality?
Tom

Again, I disagree that it's *MY* opinion on trial here. My religion has a convoluted attitude towards what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms and how it affects salvation. (The church even had a schism over it recently.) For myself, as I said in the OP, I don't make such judgments, because it's not my place.

If you're really that interested, you ought ask others to weigh in on your partner and ask about the morality of violating (possibly) several religions' holy doctrine by choosing perceived sexual gratification over more "traditional" values. My guess is, you'll find a range of opinions, from acceptance to non-judgment to concern and outright contempt for you. It really comes down to how offended you're looking to get here...

 

[Skwim]

All I said was that presumably, some large portion of such groups believe in a higher power. Whether or not they think they're doing anything "wrong" or deviant, do you think they're going to their (or your own) version of Hell?

I don't believe I said anything about "Christian"...

Let's see.

1. You ask about hell, a Christian concept (not exclusively of course)
2. You're a Christian, an Episcopalian
3. You put up a huge image of a Christian​

So is it reasonable to assume you're talking about Christian ideas? Yeah. I think so.

.

 

[Grumpuss]

I can, as long as they realize other people don't. Besides, that was some Hindu to Hindu humor.

Um, okay. I'm not speaking for all religions everywhere (Heaven, help me!)

Let's see.

1. You ask about hell, a Christian concept (not exclusively of course)
2. You're a Christian, an Episcopalian
3. You put up a huge image of a Christian​

So is it reasonable to assume you're talking about Christian ideas? Yeah. I think so.

.

I'm not sure what you're doing here, but you're wrong. If you want to specifically criticize Christians or their ideas, I'm sure there are other places on RF you can troll. Thanks for playing.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As many homosexual men and women, as well as those who are transsexual, bisexual, have relations with animals and plants, it is entirely possible, even likely that many of them maintain a personal belief in God. They may even form a devout connection to their divine gods, though it may not necessarily involve the same acceptance or repugnance you feel at learning of such lifestyles.

It is not a lifestyle.

How one conducts himself/herself in life would therefore follow some kind of path to salvation, whether it be an Abrahamic God, Hindu pantheon, Buddhist spirit, etc. It would follow for those believers who are not living gods, that the rules were designed by others and we can not rewrite them to suit our own subject experience of judgment of ourselves. Being good and chaste and procreating as we are told the god(s) of our faith want can and will clash against what many consider to be impure, disgusting, abominable and a sin against nature. While we hope and expect we have kind and merciless deities to at least partially absolve us when mental derangement is a mitigating factor, what is the effect upon our immortal souls and/or spiritual afterlife when we consciously make deviant choices that are offensive to the faiths?

If we did something against the rules of our faith, then we suffer consequences our faith dictates. Since homosexuality is not a lifestyle, to answer your question in your OP, no, homosexuals are not going to hell unless they (if Christian) do not believe jesus saves them from their sins and taken the sacraments of christ because of their commitment.

I haven't heard other religions explicitly condemn homosexuality just the behavior and some religions don't want homosexuals to be in role of a priest such as a Babalow.

I didn't say a word about this. I just stated that established religions have stated this in the past.

Going by your OP, I don't see how the two match up. They aren't going to hell unless you have a specific religion in mind, then we can narrow down how they define homosexuality. It's not a lifestyle, so I don't see how they would go to hell in any religion.

Not what was talked about in the OP. Yes, there are many, many behaviors religions deem worthy of damnation. You could have several similar threads about the application of killing and still getting into Heaven.

I don't know about other religions. Christianity believes highly in repentance. Fortunately, some denominations don't doom you right on the spot. They have organizations and services that supports people out of sin rather than condemning them.

Not a thread about the Bible. This is in General Religious Debates for a reason. Take it on over to the Christian DIRs and I'm sure there some over there that would love to debate that with you.

I can't. I'm not Christian and you didn't specify what religion you're talking about. You just lumped them together; so, Christianity is the one I know the best on an intimate level (and people see through christian eyes), and based on your other threads, I assume it's a christian oriented one.

Nothing wrong with that. Happens to the best of us.

Not about Christianity, specifically, though I am aware of the type of Christians you are referring to. Some sects believe that confession, forgiveness and prayer are all that's necessary for salvation. It wasn't that long ago that nearly every sect believed that certain sins were irredeemable damnation: killing a priest or communing with the Devil or something.

I went down the quotes before reading them all. So, you already addressed what I mentioned above. In general, no, homosexuality is not a lifestyle; so, unless the religion (regardless which it is) is just bias against people, they aren't going to hell because of their sexual orientation.

 

[Skwim]

I'm not sure what you're doing here, but you're wrong. If you want to specifically criticize Christians or their ideas, I'm sure there are other places on RF you can troll. Thanks for playing.

Nah. I'm going to stick around and see what develops. Your interest in the sexuality of others is intriguing.

.
​

.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

First you must understand the idea of hell. There are two hells. The first one is the grave where everyone is going. The second is the coming fire that will destroy all who refuse to obey God's laws. Everyone will have a chance to understand if he is breaking God's laws and to change if he is . Those who refuse to change will face punishment by being destroyed in the fire.

 

[Skwim]

First you must understand the idea of hell. There are two hells. The first one is the grave where everyone is going. The second is the coming fire that will destroy all who refuse to obey God's laws. Everyone will have a chance to understand if he is breaking God's laws and to change if he is . Those who refuse to change will face punishment by being destroyed in the fire.

Got some kind of a source for all these specifics? It would be nice to know you aren't simply making them up. And if they involve the Bible, chapter and verse would be appropriate.

.

.

 

[Grumpuss]

It is not a lifestyle.

non sequitur.

If we did something against the rules of our faith, then we suffer consequences our faith dictates. Since homosexuality is not a lifestyle, to answer your question in your OP, no, homosexuals are not going to hell unless they (if Christian) do not believe jesus saves them from their sins and taken the sacraments of christ because of their commitment.

I haven't heard other religions explicitly condemn homosexuality just the behavior and some religions don't want homosexuals to be in role of a priest such as a Babalow.

Once again, this is not an invitation to specifically address Christian conceptions of homosexuality / unnaturalness as a sin affection salvation. If you want that to be part of it, fine. No religion holds exclusivity on such condemnation, and you'd be a fool to think otherwise. Have a look into Islam, which is at least as nasty as Christianity, as evidenced by the Qu'ran, hadith and common practices.

Going by your OP, I don't see how the two match up. They aren't going to hell unless you have a specific religion in mind, then we can narrow down how they define homosexuality. It's not a lifestyle, so I don't see how they would go to hell in any religion.

I'm really not trying to redefine homosexuality into some narrow subset. If you think it really matters what is in thought versus what is in deed, then please feel free to add to the discussion. There's nothing criminal about it, so parsing it in terms of someone having impure thoughts about kids versus someone viewing child pornography versus someone making it, is just hateful. This was about what established faiths consider necessary for spiritual salvation and how such people view themselves.

It wasn't a discussion confined merely to homosexuality at all. But a wider consideration of what numerous religions consider "impure" in a sexual sense, and how the religious in those groups consider their . That you honed in on the homosexual part isn't that surprising, but please understand it was never just about you.

I don't know about other religions. Christianity believes highly in repentance. Fortunately, some denominations don't doom you right on the spot. They have organizations and services that supports people out of sin rather than condemning them.

Look up the other religions then. My personal belief is that sinners should be helped and help themselves. No one "condemns" anyone in religion that isn't himself a sinner. Only God can raise up or condemn someone.

I can't. I'm not Christian and you didn't specify what religion you're talking about. You just lumped them together; so, Christianity is the one I know the best on an intimate level (and people see through christian eyes), and based on your other threads, I assume it's a christian oriented one.

Nothing wrong with that. Happens to the best of us.

Then you're just trying to pick a fight with a Christian, and I wish you'd do so elsewhere. I said in the OP this isn't about any specific religion or the superiority of any one religion over others. Presumably, you are aware there are other religions out there, and that a majority of the planet's religious population is non-Christian.

I went down the quotes before reading them all. So, you already addressed what I mentioned above. In general, no, homosexuality is not a lifestyle; so, unless the religion (regardless which it is) is just bias against people, they aren't going to hell because of their sexual orientation.

I think you have some weird misapprehensions about religion in general. Do you understand that the religions themselves don't actually have a portal to Hell or decide who is going there? I'm asking honestly, because the way you frame statements, it seems as though you believe they have this power (which would be both impressive and horrible!).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

As for hell in the first place, the closest concept is Tartarus. The people who go there are those who have greatly offended the Gods in extraordinary ways (hubris). None of it has to do with mundane sexual stuff. There just isn't this strange obsession with normal sexual behavior in my religion. Homosexuality and even zoophilia would fall under normal human sexuality.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

non sequitur.

Once again, this is not an invitation to specifically address Christian conceptions of homosexuality / unnaturalness as a sin affection salvation. If you want that to be part of it, fine. No religion holds exclusivity on such condemnation, and you'd be a fool to think otherwise. Have a look into Islam, which is at least as nasty as Christianity, as evidenced by the Qu'ran, hadith and common practices.

I'm really not trying to redefine homosexuality into some narrow subset. If you think it really matters what is in thought versus what is in deed, then please feel free to add to the discussion. There's nothing criminal about it, so parsing it in terms of someone having impure thoughts about kids versus someone viewing child pornography versus someone making it, is just hateful. This was about what established faiths consider necessary for spiritual salvation and how such people view themselves.

It wasn't a discussion confined merely to homosexuality at all. But a wider consideration of what numerous religions consider "impure" in a sexual sense, and how the religious in those groups consider their . That you honed in on the homosexual part isn't that surprising, but please understand it was never just about you.

Look up the other religions then. My personal belief is that sinners should be helped and help themselves. No one "condemns" anyone in religion that isn't himself a sinner. Only God can raise up or condemn someone.

Then you're just trying to pick a fight with a Christian, and I wish you'd do so elsewhere. I said in the OP this isn't about any specific religion or the superiority of any one religion over others. Presumably, you are aware there are other religions out there, and that a majority of the planet's religious population is non-Christian.

I think you have some weird misapprehensions about religion in general. Do you understand that the religions themselves don't actually have a portal to Hell or decide who is going there? I'm asking honestly, because the way you frame statements, it seems as though you believe they have this power (which would be both impressive and horrible!).

Not all people are the same on the internet. I have no energy to pick a fight over this topic. Just what you said in your OP (or how I interpreted it) did not sound correct. A lot of your threads have bias trends to it.

But to have a discussion, it's best to put this in a discussion area not a debate area. Some people (some people) are inclined to think more about what you say if they don't have a pre-requisite to think they have to debate.

-

I said based on your other threads, your tone in this thread, and the question in your OP (not all religions have hell), it sounded heavily christian oriented.

Unless you're looking for a debate, your OP is pretty much a yes or no question. It honestly depends on the religion. In Christianity, no. If that homosexual is christian, in some denomin they will not go to hell. There are thousands of religions. Many define homosexuality as a behavior not a sexual orientation that's related to cultural norms rather than only specific to religion.

Why would I pick a fight with a Christian anyway? I used to be a christian... a very happy christian. I just hate to see christians (any any christian) misinterpret the bible to condemn homosexuals rather than the behavior some of them do.

This is not talking about you.

I hate assumptions too. If I didn't mention you or refer to you, I'm not talking about you just a generalization.

But, no. Homosexuals are not going to hell. Why did you ask the question?

No sarcasm please. Honestly.

 

[columbus]

Everyone will have a chance to understand if he is breaking God's laws and to change if he is . Those who refuse to change will face punishment by being destroyed in the fire.

I don't see any possibility of anyone getting solid evidence that there is a God and wants them to do something without them doing it gladly.
Not to do so would be a clear sign of insanity. Something about them that needs fixed, not punished. And I am confident that the Almighty is willing and able to fix it.

If I were ever going to be a Christian, I would be a Universalist. "Universal Salvation". Even Hitler is going to be Saved. Eventually.

Hell is a profoundly immoral concept. At least the hell I was taught about as a young Christian.
Tom

 

[Grumpuss]

Not all people are the same on the internet. I have no energy to pick a fight over this topic. Just what you said in your OP (or how I interpreted it) did not sound correct. A lot of your threads have bias trends to it.

But to have a discussion, it's best to put this in a discussion area not a debate area. Some people (some people) are inclined to think more about what you say if they don't have a pre-requisite to think they have to debate.

-

I said based on your other threads, your tone in this thread, and the question in your OP (not all religions have hell), it sounded heavily christian oriented.

Unless you're looking for a debate, your OP is pretty much a yes or no question. It honestly depends on the religion. In Christianity, no. If that homosexual is christian, in some denomin they will not go to hell. There are thousands of religions. Many define homosexuality as a behavior not a sexual orientation that's related to cultural norms rather than only specific to religion.

Why would I pick a fight with a Christian anyway? I used to be a christian... a very happy christian. I just hate to see christians (any any christian) misinterpret the bible to condemn homosexuals rather than the behavior some of them do.

This is not talking about you.

I hate assumptions too. If I didn't mention you or refer to you, I'm not talking about you just a generalization.

But, no. Homosexuals are not going to hell. Why did you ask the question?

No sarcasm please. Honestly.

No please- debate away. Just saying that you seem to adding in a lot of personal baggage you may be carrying about your own sexuality and relationship with Christianity. If you want to debate either of those, I suggest starting an additional thread or taking it to the Christianity DIR.

If you're going through the trouble of actually looking back through other unrelated threads to decide if you're being fair or not in this one, then I would suggest you're taking discussion far too personally to be healthy.

 

[Father Heathen]

Here we have candidate number 1 who refuses to call a sin a sin..

You do many things that are considered "haram" by Islam, so that means we can accuse you of defying God, right? You do these things despite god telling you in the Koran that he forbids them, so you too refuse to "call a sin a sin".

In case my point was lost on you, there are thousands of religions, each with it's own concept of what is and isn't a "sin". If you don't belong to a specific religion, then that's religion's idea of "sin" would obviously be meaningless to you, now wouldn't it?

 

[LuisDantas]

I didn't say a word about this. I just stated that established religions have stated this in the past.

"Established"? I was thinking of an entirely different qualifier, myself. And I am not sure I would call them religions, in any case.