Are do-gooders pushing women where they don't want to go?

[oldbadger]

I understand that women don't get equal pay with men?

In a recent news article an MP speaking at the Suffragette Musuem somewhere in the North of England was explaing how this can be, despite all rates of pay being the same. I don't know of any job where women get paid less than men, and so I listened to her explanation.

What she seemed to be getting at was that firstly, a low % of women are in senior 'fat-cat' positions in business boardrooms etc. Now I don't give a fig about fat-cats or their pay, whoever they are, because I think that they're all paid too much anyway. So let's put the fat-cats to one side, if we may?

Then the MP launched into a seond area of need, explaing that (on average) women only get part-time jobs, compared to men who get full-time jobs. She wanted more women working full time and thus earning EQUAL PAY.

I know some women...... and they have a different view altogether. They don't want to be forced out of their part-time jobs, or house-keeping roles and made to work fulltime. Those in relationships want their partners and husbands to work fulltime, and if these roles are to be reversed so that some MP on a mission can balance some theoretical gender gap then they don't like it!

Are do-gooders pushing women where they don't want to go?

 

[Sunstone]

I simply cannot image how more women having a chance at full time employment translates into pushing women out of the house against their will.

Sounds like a non-issue to me.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I understand that women don't get equal pay with men?

In a recent news article an MP speaking at the Suffragette Musuem somewhere in the North of England was explaing how this can be, despite all rates of pay being the same. I don't know of any job where women get paid less than men, and so I listened to her explanation.

What she seemed to be getting at was that firstly, a low % of women are in senior 'fat-cat' positions in business boardrooms etc. Now I don't give a fig about fat-cats or their pay, whoever they are, because I think that they're all paid too much anyway. So let's put the fat-cats to one side, if we may?

Then the MP launched into a seond area of need, explaing that (on average) women only get part-time jobs, compared to men who get full-time jobs. She wanted more women working full time and thus earning EQUAL PAY.

I know some women...... and they have a different view altogether. They don't want to be forced out of their part-time jobs, or house-keeping roles and made to work fulltime. Those in relationships want their partners and husbands to work fulltime, and if these roles are to be reversed so that some MP on a mission can balance some theoretical gender gap then they don't like it!

Are do-gooders pushing women where they don't want to go?

According to "some study", whose, I do not know, being a mother is already 2 1/2 jobs. And while the brain of a woman is designed as a parallel processor to handle that kind of load, motherhood is still overloading at times. A man's brain functions as a series processor and handles a narrow range of tasks very fast, but most men are lousy at multitasking.

And yes, I would agree that some are too pushy.

 

[SomeRandom]

Seems more like the economy has rendered single pay households obsolete thus pushing women into a situation where they have to work full tme if they want a family and not everyone does.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I understand that women don't get equal pay with men?

In a recent news article an MP speaking at the Suffragette Musuem somewhere in the North of England was explaing how this can be, despite all rates of pay being the same. I don't know of any job where women get paid less than men, and so I listened to her explanation.

What she seemed to be getting at was that firstly, a low % of women are in senior 'fat-cat' positions in business boardrooms etc. Now I don't give a fig about fat-cats or their pay, whoever they are, because I think that they're all paid too much anyway. So let's put the fat-cats to one side, if we may?

Then the MP launched into a seond area of need, explaing that (on average) women only get part-time jobs, compared to men who get full-time jobs. She wanted more women working full time and thus earning EQUAL PAY.

I know some women...... and they have a different view altogether. They don't want to be forced out of their part-time jobs, or house-keeping roles and made to work fulltime. Those in relationships want their partners and husbands to work fulltime, and if these roles are to be reversed so that some MP on a mission can balance some theoretical gender gap then they don't like it!

Are do-gooders pushing women where they don't want to go?

I'm not sure she was talking about forcing women out of part-time work. More likely she was saying more opportunities should be created for women in permanent positions.

Then again, I have no idea what she meant because I haven't read or seen her speech. Do you have a link?

 

[Sunstone]

Seems more like the economy has rendered single pay households obsolete thus pushing women into a situation where they have to work full tme if they want a family and not everyone does.

Oh, no, no, no! That can't be true. Just can't be true! It's got to be something, something more sinister than simple economics. Something sinister like "pushy feminists". Because, you know, without drama, life is just boring, boring as endlessly standing in line. So, we need to be drama queens about these things. Only way to go about it, really, only way that makes any rational sense.

 

[SomeRandom]

Oh, no, no, no! That can't be true. Just can't be true! It's got to be something, something more sinister than simple economics. Something sinister like "pushy feminists". Because, you know, without drama, life is just boring, boring as endlessly standing in line. So, we need to be drama queens about these things. Only way to go about it, really, only way that makes any rational sense.

Alas, reality is often devoid of entertaining drama.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I understand that women don't get equal pay with men?

In a recent news article an MP speaking at the Suffragette Musuem somewhere in the North of England was explaing how this can be, despite all rates of pay being the same. I don't know of any job where women get paid less than men, and so I listened to her explanation.

What she seemed to be getting at was that firstly, a low % of women are in senior 'fat-cat' positions in business boardrooms etc. Now I don't give a fig about fat-cats or their pay, whoever they are, because I think that they're all paid too much anyway. So let's put the fat-cats to one side, if we may?

Then the MP launched into a seond area of need, explaing that (on average) women only get part-time jobs, compared to men who get full-time jobs. She wanted more women working full time and thus earning EQUAL PAY.

I know some women...... and they have a different view altogether. They don't want to be forced out of their part-time jobs, or house-keeping roles and made to work fulltime. Those in relationships want their partners and husbands to work fulltime, and if these roles are to be reversed so that some MP on a mission can balance some theoretical gender gap then they don't like it!

Are do-gooders pushing women where they don't want to go?

The government's role is to provide these women (and men and children) protection and opportunity. In the context of employment, that means creating desirable jobs, safe workplace environments, equal pay for equal work, equal opportunity to advance, and the like.

Government's role does not include encouraging or discouraging anybody from working full time, part time, or not at all.

But to answer your question, no, do-gooders have no leverage to make women go where they do not want to go. The circumstances of their lives do, but not people like this MP.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Not anymore than they are pushing everyone else.

 

[PureX]

I understand that women don't get equal pay with men?

In a recent news article an MP speaking at the Suffragette Musuem somewhere in the North of England was explaing how this can be, despite all rates of pay being the same. I don't know of any job where women get paid less than men, and so I listened to her explanation.

What she seemed to be getting at was that firstly, a low % of women are in senior 'fat-cat' positions in business boardrooms etc. Now I don't give a fig about fat-cats or their pay, whoever they are, because I think that they're all paid too much anyway. So let's put the fat-cats to one side, if we may?

Then the MP launched into a seond area of need, explaing that (on average) women only get part-time jobs, compared to men who get full-time jobs. She wanted more women working full time and thus earning EQUAL PAY.

I know some women...... and they have a different view altogether. They don't want to be forced out of their part-time jobs, or house-keeping roles and made to work fulltime. Those in relationships want their partners and husbands to work fulltime, and if these roles are to be reversed so that some MP on a mission can balance some theoretical gender gap then they don't like it!

Are do-gooders pushing women where they don't want to go?

When you only hang with your own kind, you think everyone else thinks like you. This sort of myopic anecdotal "evidence" is very unconvincing, for obvious reasons.

Here in the U.S. women make less money for doing the same jobs as men, across the board. It has nothing to do with them "wanting" to make less money, or with them working fewer hours, or with them being physically "weaker". It has to do with the fact that greedy male bosses know that they can more easily "knuckle under" a woman who wants a raise then a man because of the false perception that women are "secondary breadwinners" in the family. It's the same BS used to justify paying young people less than a livable wage for their labors. It's nothing but greed, using ignorance and bigotry to hide itself behind, to get away with cheating women and young people out of a fair wage.

 

[oldbadger]

The government's role is to provide these women (and men and children) protection and opportunity. In the context of employment, that means creating desirable jobs, safe workplace environments, equal pay for equal work, equal opportunity to advance, and the like.

It would seem that although our Equality Act does provide protection for all of the above, the present media coverage of the fact that women earn less than men is huge, and by 'earn less' it seems that somebody somewhere is drawing this information from the fact that women work less hours, and so take home less money, = earn less.

Therefore this must cause some pressure upon wom,en to work more hours, do more, earn more, in order to balance the gender books.

Government's role does not include encouraging or discouraging anybody from working full time, part time, or not at all.

The UK Government has always encouraged folks into work.

But to answer your question, no, do-gooders have no leverage to make women go where they do not want to go. The circumstances of their lives do, but not people like this MP.

But media coverage like this affects public opinion, and public opinion can sway in all directions.

 

[oldbadger]

When you only hang with your own kind, you think everyone else thinks like you. This sort of myopic anecdotal "evidence" is very unconvincing, for obvious reasons.

This MP was speaking from the Suffragettes museum...... an institution held in high respect by many people. And so this group would hardly be described as myopic here, and we hear about this unequal pay gap all the time. It's not anecdotal......... well, not here.

Here in the U.S. women make less money for doing the same jobs as men, across the board. It has nothing to do with them "wanting" to make less money, or with them working fewer hours, or with them being physically "weaker". It has to do with the fact that greedy male bosses know that they can more easily "knuckle under" a woman who wants a raise then a man because of the false perception that women are "secondary breadwinners" in the family. It's the same BS used to justify paying young people less than a livable wage for their labors. It's nothing but greed, using ignorance and bigotry to hide itself behind, to get away with cheating women and young people out of a fair wage.

Oh that's dreadful..... In the UK folks get paid the same per hour as each other, regardless of gender.

 

[oldbadger]

When you only hang with your own kind, you think everyone else thinks like you. This sort of myopic anecdotal "evidence" is very unconvincing, for obvious reasons.

I thought you might like to review some more reports about part-time women and full time men causing the gender pay gap?

Mothers working part-time hit hard by gender pay gap, study shows ...
https://www.theguardian.com/.../mothers-working-part-time-hit-hard-by-gender-pay-...
4 Feb 2018 - Women who work part-time after having children are likely to suffer the extremes of the gender pay gap, according to fresh research showing how working mothers are missing out on pay progression. ... There are fears that progress in closing the gender pay gap has stalled, with the ...

Latest job statistics: full-time work is disappearing for women, but not ...
https://www.theguardian.com/.../latest-job-stats-full-time-work-is-disappearing-for-wo...
21 Feb 2017 - The latest jobs figures provided some small bit of good news, but also highlighted that while men have finally started getting more full-time work ...

Part-time working plays crucial role in gender pay gap - Financial Times
Subscribe to read
4 Feb 2018 - Part-time workers do not typically enjoy any progression in their wages, ... moreinformation about how they compensate men and women.

How do the jobs men and women do affect the gender pay gap ...
https://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-do-the-jobs-men-and-women-do-affect-the-gender-pay...
6 Oct 2017 - Women earn less per hour, on average, than men in all nine major occupation groups1. The number of women working part-time is among the ...

[PDF]Women, work and wages in the UK - New Policy Institute
https://www.npi.org.uk/files/.../Women_Work_and_Wages_in_the_UK_NPI_report.p...
narrowing, and partly reflects that women are more likely to work part-time ... bars indicate the proportion of men and women that work part-time, whereas the ...

[PDF]Working below potential: women and part-time work - Sheffield Hallam ...
https://www4.shu.ac.uk/_assets/pdf/ceir-workingbelowpotential.pdf
by L Grant - ‎Cited by 101 - ‎Related articles
74. 6.2 Changes in the number of part-time jobs held by women, 1991-2002. 75. 6.3 Employed women who work part-time by age. 77. 6.4 Part-time employment ...
Why part-time work is not good for women's pay - HR magazine
www.hrmagazine.co.uk/article.../why-part-time-work-is-not-good-for-womens-pay
20 Feb 2018 - A second type of part-time work, and potentially more beneficial for women's pay, is reduced hours working i.e. working part-time in a job where ...

 

[oldbadger]

I simply cannot image how more women having a chance at full time employment translates into pushing women out of the house against their will.

Sounds like a non-issue to me.

Unfortunately the gender pay gap (here, UK) is being measured by 'where the pay goes to' rather than 'same rates per job, per hour' and this could end up putting women under another kind of pressure.

The equality drive has already pressured women here before, but you probably never heard about it. There are many examples but I'll give you the first two that I think of, and you can check 'em out if you like....

1. In the name of equality the retirement age was equalised for both sexes at 65 years, which seems reasonable enough, but thousands of older women who had been preparing themselves to retire at 60 found that they had to work on for another five years. Can you imagine how they felt about that?

2. Over here women drivers have a much lower vehicle accident rate, and because of that insurers calculated that they were generally a much lower risk = much lower insurance premiums. But the equality drive created legislation which ordered that women would have to pay exactly the same premiums as men for their insurance, and over night their premiums jumped up sharply. Can you imagine how they felt about that?

etc etc........ and now (over here) there seems to be pressure mounting for women to return the same amount of work in any given period as men = the same pay...... I know that's hard for you where you are to imagine, but believe me when I tell you that it's mounting pressure.

Mothers working part-time hit hard by gender pay gap, study shows ...
https://www.theguardian.com/.../mothers-working-part-time-hit-hard-by-gender-pay-...
4 Feb 2018 - Women who work part-time after having children are likely to suffer the extremes of the gender pay gap, according to fresh research showing how working mothers are missing out on pay progression. ... There are fears that progress in closing the gender pay gap has stalled, with the ...

Latest job statistics: full-time work is disappearing for women, but not ...
https://www.theguardian.com/.../latest-job-stats-full-time-work-is-disappearing-for-wo...
21 Feb 2017 - The latest jobs figures provided some small bit of good news, but also highlighted that while men have finally started getting more full-time work ...

Part-time working plays crucial role in gender pay gap - Financial Times
Subscribe to read
4 Feb 2018 - Part-time workers do not typically enjoy any progression in their wages, ... moreinformation about how they compensate men and women.

How do the jobs men and women do affect the gender pay gap ...
https://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-do-the-jobs-men-and-women-do-affect-the-gender-pay...
6 Oct 2017 - Women earn less per hour, on average, than men in all nine major occupation groups1. The number of women working part-time is among the ...

[PDF]Women, work and wages in the UK - New Policy Institute
https://www.npi.org.uk/files/.../Women_Work_and_Wages_in_the_UK_NPI_report.p...
narrowing, and partly reflects that women are more likely to work part-time ... bars indicate the proportion of men and women that work part-time, whereas the ...

[PDF]Working below potential: women and part-time work - Sheffield Hallam ...
https://www4.shu.ac.uk/_assets/pdf/ceir-workingbelowpotential.pdf
by L Grant - ‎Cited by 101 - ‎Related articles
74. 6.2 Changes in the number of part-time jobs held by women, 1991-2002. 75. 6.3 Employed women who work part-time by age. 77. 6.4 Part-time employment ...
Why part-time work is not good for women's pay - HR magazine
www.hrmagazine.co.uk/article.../why-part-time-work-is-not-good-for-womens-pay
20 Feb 2018 - A second type of part-time work, and potentially more beneficial for women's pay, is reduced hours working i.e. working part-time in a job where ...

 

[oldbadger]

Seems more like the economy has rendered single pay households obsolete thus pushing women into a situation where they have to work full tme if they want a family and not everyone does.

You said it........... 'pushing women....'
There it is.........
It's pressure.

 

[SomeRandom]

You said it........... 'pushing women....'
There it is.........
It's pressure.

It's changing society. It's just not like it was a few generations ago. (Though I have my doubts it was peachy back then.) You can't choose between a homemaker or be a worker. These days that's just not always viable. I mean I suppose in some professions it is. But for average working Joe smith one has to have steady income, often from both parents to ensure the progeny is well looked after and educated. That's just what the economy is like. Things change either keep up or die out.
Women can choose just like men can choose but it's not the "do gooders" as you asked originally. It's just capitalism.

 

[Revoltingest]

This MP was speaking from the Suffragettes museum...... an institution held in high respect by many people. And so this group would hardly be described as myopic here, and we hear about this unequal pay gap all the time. It's not anecdotal......... well, not here.


Oh that's dreadful..... In the UK folks get paid the same per hour as each other, regardless of gender.

One problem is that women make the wrong choices to maximize income.
They eschew high paying trades, & they spend so much time raising kids.

 

[oldbadger]

It's changing society. It's just not like it was a few generations ago. (Though I have my doubts it was peachy back then.) You can't choose between a homemaker or be a worker. These days that's just not always viable.

I'm guessing that your use of the word 'homemaker' puts you in America. Another member has already pointed out how backward the US is in gender equality, even now. Over here we are remembering the Dagenham Girls (Essex, N.E. London) who fifty years ago challenged a huge US car company because they were skilled upholstery machinists but Fords would only pay them as unskilled workers. Corporation Directors from the US flew here in attempts to stomp the strike down, even making threats to the Transport/Industry Secretary Barbara Castle if she and our government would try to support the women. Barbara Castle found for the woirkers, and they won, and a year later the Equal Pay Act passed through Parliament and became Law.

And so, for fifty years workers get the right rate of pay for the job, regardless of gender.

This 'Equal Pay' movement is just playing with a different set of figures, to do with how much work women do compared to men, and I reckon it's an initiative to try and get mothers off benefits and into full-time work, and the children into daycare.

The Equality movement (here) can tend to push a lot of women where they don't want to go, hence the thread.

I mean I suppose in some professions it is. But for average working Joe smith one has to have steady income, often from both parents to ensure the progeny is well looked after and educated. That's just what the economy is like. Things change either keep up or die out.

I guess......... life can be tough.

Women can choose just like men can choose but it's not the "do gooders" as you asked originally. It's just capitalism.

Actually, I think you're right......,., they ain't do-gooders, they're manipulating b's in do-gooder outfits.

 

[oldbadger]

One problem is that women make the wrong choices to maximize income.
They eschew high paying trades, & they spend so much time raising kids.

Well, not so much now.
My daughter and two daughters in law all studied hard and two have degrees (radiography and midwifery) and one is a level 4 engineer waiting to take the level 5 (degree) leap, the latter working through in an apprenticeship.

Where women have the strongest income capacity (here) the men are taking the house-partner roles and having part-time jobs.

But in any case, when folks snatch women's working hours total and use it in some form of gender inequality theme, that's pushing the ladies.

And just you wait, question even the slightest part of any gender movement and the extremists, riding hard on the impetus and momentum of current culture, will be screaming for blood. It's just a modern form of Taboo.....

Anyway, you always wanted to see me gobbled up, so hang around.....

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm guessing that your use of the word 'homemaker' puts you in America. Another member has already pointed out how backward the US is in gender equality, even now. Over here we are remembering the Dagenham Girls (Essex, N.E. London) who fifty years ago challenged a huge US car company because they were skilled upholstery machinists but Fords would only pay them as unskilled workers. Corporation Directors from the US flew here in attempts to stomp the strike down, even making threats to the Transport/Industry Secretary Barbara Castle if she and our government would try to support the women. Barbara Castle found for the woirkers, and they won, and a year later the Equal Pay Act passed through Parliament and became Law.

And so, for fifty years workers get the right rate of pay for the job, regardless of gender.

This 'Equal Pay' movement is just playing with a different set of figures, to do with how much work women do compared to men, and I reckon it's an initiative to try and get mothers off benefits and into full-time work, and the children into daycare.

The Equality movement (here) can tend to push a lot of women where they don't want to go, hence the thread.


I guess......... life can be tough.


Actually, I think you're right......,., they ain't do-gooders, they're manipulating b's in do-gooder outfits.

I'm Australian actually.
I don't know. Just seems like an inevitable outcome when women are allowed to actually pursue their careers, hence the hike in economy affecting everyone in different ways.