Are Democrats really pro-choice?

[esmith]

Which are very rare and only done to protect the life of the mother.
You'd prefer the mother to die, to save the child.
I'd prefer the mother to live, so she can have more children.

Late term abortions when the pregnant person's life is at risk. Like I said: it was a massive compromise.

Keep in mind the ideal that they're backing down from:

• The right to abortion is protected at all times during pregnancy.
• Abortion services are provided free of charge to anyone who needs one.
• Medical staff whose job duties include abortion care who refuse to do their jobs can go find other work.

Where do you think the happy medium should be between that an the anti-choicers' position of "no abortions anywhere at any time"?

Nothing says that the life of the mother doesn't comes first. If that is the reason I suspect very few would have an objection. Of course there are those that would but I see no reason 60 votes in the Senate couldn't be reached if that is the only sticking point.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A friend of mine posted this on Facebook:

"Late Term Abortion

As someone who assists in these cases, I can tell you, if you're against third trimester abortion, you don't understand why they happen.

9\10 Abortions are done in the first trimester; half of them are done by taking pills that cause menstruation.

Late term abortions are very rare and very sad events that no one is excited about. They are incredibly hard decisions for the parents to make.

These are wanted babies and something has gone very wrong.

I can tell you that it's never done because someone with a healthy pregnancy just decided to abort.

If you are for freedom, you are for abortion. If you care about people being able to make the hardest decision a parent can make, you are for late term abortion.

These are gut wrenchingly painful decisions that the government shouldn't be involved in."


My boss' wife had to have a "late term abortion" when her very wanted twins died in her womb in her seventh month. It was absolutely devastating for her but it probably saved her life. And now she has a son that she loves very much. We need to let people make their own medical decisions. Abortion is healthcare.

IMO, anti-choicers railing against "late term abortion" almost always amounts to kicking people when they're down.

... which is pretty on-brand for them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nothing says that the life of the mother doesn't comes first.

The Women's Health Protection Act said that the life of the mother comes first. The Republicans voted against it.

If that is the reason I suspect very few would have an objection. Of course there are those that would but I see no reason 60 votes in the Senate couldn't be reached if that is the only sticking point.

You really can't see why? Here's why: Republican elected officials have no issue supporting cruelty if they can spin it in a way that benefits them politically.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nobody casts doubt on those.
I want some feedback about late term abortions (after the 18th-20th week) of perfectly healthy babies carried by perfectly healthy mothers.
What do you think about them? (and yes ...they do and did take place, even if they are a very small percentage)

Not my post.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That's what low-information voters believe. We're referring to "right up to birth"

No we aren't.
Most late-term abortions are elective, done on healthy women with healthy fetuses, and for the same reasons given by women experiencing first trimester abortions.
It is estimated that about 1% of all abortions in the United States are performed after 20 weeks, or approximately 10 000 to 15 000 annually.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No we aren't.
Most late-term abortions are elective, done on healthy women with healthy fetuses, and for the same reasons given by women experiencing first trimester abortions.
It is estimated that about 1% of all abortions in the United States are performed after 20 weeks, or approximately 10 000 to 15 000 annually.

Nonsense.

Still waiting for that citation ....

 

[esmith]

When during pregnancy do most abortions occur?
The vast majority of abortions – around nine-in-ten – occur during the first trimester of a pregnancy. In 2019, 93% of abortions occurred during the first trimester – that is, at or before 13 weeks of gestation, according to the CDC. An additional 6% occurred between 14 and 20 weeks of pregnancy, and 1% were performed at 21 weeks or more of gestation. These CDC figures include data from 42 states and New York City (but not the rest of New

The CDC reported just over 1 million abortions in 1991 and 629,898 in 2019
Therefore in 2019 approx:
598403 were performed during the first trimester
37793 were performed between 14 and 20 weeks
6299 were performed after 21 weeks or more
Above from:
What the data says about abortion in the U.S.

Edit: The CDC compiles figures voluntarily reported by the central health agencies of the vast majority of states (including separate figures for New York City) and the District of Columbia. Its latest totals do not include figures from California, Maryland or New Hampshire, which did not report data to the CDC.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Nonsense.

Still waiting for that citation ....

Late-term abortion is, fortunately, relatively rare. According to the most recent CDC data, only 1.3 percent of abortions occur after 21 weeks. However, given the sheer number of abortions in this country (638,169 reported to the CDC), that means there were at least 8,000 late-term abortions in the United States.

It’s Time for the Truth About Late-Term Abortions | National Review

 

[Shaul]

Democrats have brought many bills to a vote that don't have the votes. So your claim here is absurd and counter to facts.

My claim was that the Democrats could bring forth abortion despite there being a potential filibuster. Your statement unwittingly supports that claim. Thanks.

 

[Heyo]

Late-term abortion is, fortunately, relatively rare. According to the most recent CDC data, only 1.3 percent of abortions occur after 21 weeks. However, given the sheer number of abortions in this country (638,169 reported to the CDC), that means there were at least 8,000 late-term abortions in the United States.

It’s Time for the Truth About Late-Term Abortions | National Review

" Later abortion recipients experienced logistical delays (e.g., difficulty finding a provider and raising funds for the procedure and travel costs), which compounded other delays in receiving care." - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013 (that's the study linked in the article)

So it is not only the women's fault but also the result of abortions not being easily accessible and affordable. Making them wait and then scolding them for being late is a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

 

[F1fan]

My claim was that the Democrats could bring forth abortion despite there being a potential filibuster. Your statement unwittingly supports that claim. Thanks.

It's already been done.

Senate fails to pass abortion rights bill — again

Seems democrats are pro-choice.

 

[esmith]

It's already been done.

Senate fails to pass abortion rights bill — again

Seems democrats are pro-choice.

Well in reality some are some arn't, just as some republican are and some arn't

 

[Wildswanderer]

" Later abortion recipients experienced logistical delays (e.g., difficulty finding a provider and raising funds for the procedure and travel costs), which compounded other delays in receiving care." - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013 (that's the study linked in the article)

So it is not only the women's fault but also the result of abortions not being easily accessible and affordable. Making them wait and then scolding them for being late is a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

I don't care who you blame. Obviously the women are still making a choice to destroy their offspring. But the point is that the idea that only early term abortions happen isn't true. And if someone believes life begins at 15 weeks or whatever he or she should be completely pro life to save those later term babies.

 

[Heyo]

And if someone believes life begins at 15 weeks or whatever he or she should be completely pro life to save those later term babies.

I am. For me the cut-off point is 20 weeks when it is pretty sure there is no nervous system that can feel any pain*. No elective abortions after that point, only for medical reasons. But that also includes that it is possible to get it done before that 20 week mark when the decision is made in the 19th week.

(* Others say the nervous system isn't formed before week 24. In India women need the opinion of a second doctor for abortions after week 20 and before week 24. They also have exceptions for rape, incest and change of marital status beyond 24 weeks.)

 

[Wildswanderer]

No elective abortions after that point, only for medical reasons

Then, as I said, you should want abortion clinics shut down because they don't make that distinction.

 

[Heyo]

Then, as I said, you should want abortion clinics shut down because they don't make that distinction.

Nope. Clinics/doctors usually do exactly that what's in the law. No need to shut down clinics when there are laws.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Nope. Clinics/doctors usually do exactly that what's in the law. No need to shut down clinics when there are laws.

There's no such law in several states. And even if there were there's no reason to believe it's enforced.

 

[Heyo]

There's no such law in several states. And even if there were there's no reason to believe it's enforced.

And in other states clinics get shut down, making it harder for women to get even legal abortions. With that the procedure gets done later which makes it more dangerous and sometimes result in the abortion of a possible sentient foetus. That's on the hands of the anti-choice people.

 

[Wildswanderer]

And in other states clinics get shut down, making it harder for women to get even legal abortions. With that the procedure gets done later which makes it more dangerous and sometimes result in the abortion of a possible sentient foetus. That's on the hands of the anti-choice people.

No... it's on the hands that do the abortions.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No... it's on the hands that do the abortions.

Don't like taking responsibility for your actions, eh?